Author Topic: Thurst for Knowledge (Read 1157 times)

Land_Owner · « **on:** July 31, 2010, 04:12:32 AM »

I am still "on the fence" about smelting lead and still gathering data. I have been on Craig's List looking for a cast iron and/or steel pot(s), dutch oven maybe(?), a propane turkey frier, miscellaneous items for smelting (although you can't search the List like that), and like elements...but I have this nagging feeling that I don't really know what I am looking for.

I have read where muffin tins are used for ingot moulds. If they are aluminum moulds of light construction (thin), why doesn't the liquid lead just melt through the tins? I found one 11 slot muffin tin of cast iron for $25.00 and thought that was kind of pricey and I had read where cast isn't always the best choice (can break), so I held off on that purchase.

Why doesn't the lead ruin, stick to, gunk up tins and pots and ladles when it cools and dries?

If arsenic and antimony are so much higher in temperature to melt than lead and tin, and if these are suspended in the dross when heat is too high during melting, how do they ever distribute throughout the alloy when cooled?

I can hear you recommending a good book...which one(s)?

So many questions...

D Crockett · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2010, 05:53:45 AM »

pm sent D Crockett

Land_Owner · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2010, 06:12:55 AM »

pm answered

JustaShooter · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2010, 04:12:30 PM »

To answer some of your questions:

Aluminum has a much higher melting point than lead (about double) so that's why it won't melt its way through.

The aluminum oxide probably helps keep it from sticking, but also for lead to stick (like with solder) you need to get the metal it is going to stick to hotter than melted lead, and need to flux it to clean off the impurities. Since neither happens with an aluminum muffin tin or ladle, it won't stick.

I'd not pay that much for an ingot mold, and since I have found I need to whack the back of the tin to get my ingots to come out, I'd be afraid of eventually cracking the cast iron.

I don't know about the arsenic and antimony.

A good read is http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm

Hope this helps

Just a Shooter

Tommyt · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2010, 04:24:15 AM »

L O
Just go to a local Church garage sale they always have pans cooking items
D Crock showed me the melt Process and was nice enough to fill my truck
Worth some very good Casting pots and molds, bullet ladle,lube Flux
A WEALTH of Knowledge
But knowing what I do now I can tell you
I was taking it to serious what I mean by the (to serious)was everything
I may need to start when all is very simple get a pot and anything to use as a mold
Melt Flux and pour your molds Just that straight forward
Just remember If you use all kitchen Items just Beef up the handles with wood
I took a One cup Measure and made a Ladle I attached 2 pieces of 1X2 to the handle
now its stiffen up and is good enough to dip and pour molds
What I'm saying is you may very well have it all and just don't see it
I found a big heavy Stainless pot a few weeks ago $3 I may use it for Bigger melts
Its so simple a cave man can do it ( I hate this commercial but)

Tommyt

WayneS · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2010, 05:44:15 AM »

Yard sales, thrift shops, ect. are a good source for "muffin pans", if you weld or have a friend that welds, about 4" of 1" to 1 1/2" angle [1" will work better with a Lee 10# pot and a good starting point] cut tha angle and stick together \/\/\/\/\/.
A good source if experence and the ability to ask questions is the cast boolit.com site

Land_Owner · « **Reply #6 on:** August 02, 2010, 04:50:25 PM »

It all seems like so much Alchemy...and it is! I have been gathering wheel weights. now I have a bunch of stick on and clip on. I read that the stick on were not too good.

But being the "lucky" recipient of 900# of what I believe to be pure lead in 40# "chunks", if I "fire axe" the 40# chunks into "manageable" bits for melting, how many wheel weights are needed to make 40# of pure lead "hard enough" for say 2,700 fps or less?

Are you guys really pouring "gallons" of molten lead into a single 2-bullet mould? I mean, doesn't that take like ALL DAY to make a small hand full of bullets?

nicholst55 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 02, 2010, 06:44:08 PM »

A sawzall with a metal blade will cut your lead into manageable chunks much faster and easier than a fire axe! Yes, casting with a 2-cavity mold takes a while to accumulate a sizable quantity of bullets. Take a look at Lee's 6-cavity molds; they're affordable, decent quality (significantly better than their 2-cavity molds), and there are a reasonable assortment available.

Stick-on wheel weights are pretty much pure lead; many people mix them 50/50 with clip-on wheel weights for many uses. Not many folks are shooting cast rifle bullets at anywhere near 2700 FPS. It can be done, but not with run-of-the-mill cast bullets, by a novice caster.

I also strongly recommend that you join the Cast Boolits forum http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php.

Czech_too · « **Reply #8 on:** August 03, 2010, 03:06:34 AM »

After 40 years of reloading I never thought I'd get into casting, but I did late last year. No regrets. I didn't want to just jump right into this not knowing if I'd care for it so I started with the Lee 4# pot using a Lyman dipper and one two cavity mould. Granted, you can't crank out a lot with this setup but it's proved adequate. I can probably get a couple hundred in maybe two hours, taking pauses while refilling the pot and it coming back up to temp.

Picked up a dutch oven from Harbor Freight, SS slotted spoon and ladle from a dollar store and muffin tin from the thrift store. Already had the turkey fryer. Make sure that the muffin tin is the type where the 'cup' is not soldered to the outside rim. A six cup tin is adequate for ignots. Anymore it gets a bit heavy when flipping it over.

I have to admit that when I read about other 'casters' saying that their alloy is such and such percentage of this and that, that I'm lost. I have no way to determine what my %'s are. I use either ww's, range lead and pure lead, or a combination, with a bit of lead free solder throw in. I know it's not very scientific but it's worked so far. I'm more concerned with getting good fill out and the BHN that I want.

+1 I also strongly recommend that you join the Cast Boolits forum http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php.
That and the Lyman Cast Bullet book.

blhof · « **Reply #9 on:** August 03, 2010, 08:47:25 AM »

I've been using a cast iron corn shaped muffin pan for pure or very soft lead for years with no problem and have a cornbread cast iron frying pan that has pie shaped deviders for my hard lead. These were both garage sale finds and pre seasoned. I have never had any sticking and no cracking yet. Total investment for the pans and 3 med to lg cast pots was $15.

mdi · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2010, 01:41:16 PM »

I've been casting for a while and enjoy it every time I melt some lead. All my molds are 2 cavities, but it isn't much work to cast 200 to 300 in a sitting. My ingot molds are an alum muffin tin and a cast alum corn muffin pan. For starters you can't beat plain old wheel weight alloy. Just air cool them, there's no need to add another setp like water quenching at first. The other posts are right on about Cast Boolits and the LA Silhouette Club's website too and Lyman's Cast bullet Handbopok is a good refrence.

BTW, the most important thing about shooting cast bullets is the bullet to bore fit. Rule of thumb is .002" larger than bore size (you need to slug the bores of your guns) and for revolvers, the same size or .0005" smaller than cylinder throats. Actuall casting is another fun and rewarding side of shooting, a hobby in itself, and even more satisfying than reloading with jacketed bullets.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2010, 03:30:44 PM »

I read, and hung on, every word Veral Smith of LBT Bullets wrote in his extensive ~~introduction to~~ boolet casting catalog. That man has been around (and apparently been run around)! I WANT that knowledge of my rifle and handgun bores (slugging), lapping the rough spots to removal, high precision moulds for their accuracy, repeatable hardness in my casts, and a winning lottery ticket. As a fence-sitter, his pricing puts me off - a bit.

Do I really want to begin casting at that level of expense? You bet I do, and I want a Weatherby Mark V Lazermark 308 too, but realistically, casting only if it sticks (not literally) to me. Nothing half baked (pun intended). So I remain on the fence gathering data, biding my time, trying to make good choices, lasting choices about the lesser items to complement the high precision stuff.

I will start with the Lyman Cast Bullet book and the cast boolet association web site. These are the least I can do for now.

bulletstuffer · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2010, 05:52:21 AM »

Land_Owner,

Casting will save you a small fortune if you like to shoot alot. You will save about 15-50 cents a shot depending on caliber. I have had people say it's not worth casting for the 9mm. Each of my shots cost about 4 cents vs 15 cents for typical reloads vs 50 cents for factory 9mm rounds. The savings go up with the size of the caliber. Casting is not difficult but it is a little time consuming and you do have to pay attention to what your doing.

Best suggestion is to find someone close to where you live and have them show you there setup. Once you see how easy it is and how much money you will save in the long term you will join the ranks of the casters

Good luck,

Bulletstuffer

Anduril · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2010, 09:47:20 AM »

Quote from: bulletstuffer on August 04, 2010, 05:52:21 AM

Land_Owner,

Casting is not difficult but it is a little time consuming and you do have to pay attention to what your doing.

Best suggestion is to find someone close to where you live and have them show you there setup.

Bulletstuffer

kind of like the rest of our reloading hobby.
..

pourboy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2010, 01:13:35 PM »

Buy Verals book & read it cover to cover before spending any more money. The last I knew, it was about $25.00 + shipping.

You can buy el cheapo Lee moulds for about $25.00. They have QC issues, but are usually pretty good about replacing their screwups. Just remember, you're buying the cheapest product on the market, some of their stuff works well, others don't. There is no comparison between the quality of Lees products, and LBTs offerings. You may not even cast enough to notice the difference.

saddlebum · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2010, 02:35:24 PM »

Quote from: Land_Owner on August 03, 2010, 03:30:44 PM

I read, and hung on, every word Veral Smith of LBT Bullets wrote in his extensive ~~introduction to~~ boolet casting catalog. That man has been around (and apparently been run around)! I WANT that knowledge of my rifle and handgun bores (slugging), lapping the rough spots to removal, high precision moulds for their accuracy, repeatable hardness in my casts, and a winning lottery ticket. As a fence-sitter, his pricing puts me off - a bit.

Do I really want to begin casting at that level of expense? You bet I do, and I want a Weatherby Mark V Lazermark 308 too, but realistically, casting only if it sticks (not literally) to me. Nothing half baked (pun intended). So I remain on the fence gathering data, biding my time, trying to make good choices, lasting choices about the lesser items to complement the high precision stuff.

I will start with the Lyman Cast Bullet book and the cast boolet association web site. These are the least I can do for now.

I am not trying to talk you into anything but, sit down and come up with the average bullet weight of the different bullets you want to cast. Divide that number in grains into 7,000grs,(1lb), and multiply that number by the number of pounds of lead you have. See how many bullets you come up with. Then figure out how much it would cost to buy that many bullets. It helps to put things in perspective. The start-up costs can seem a little pricey but when you consider that you won't have to buy anything but lube and propane after that to make thousands of bullets, it doesn't seem so bad. Sort of like when you started reloading.

That being said, I don't recomend Lee molds. Others can flame me if they want or just disagree with me. RCBS or Lyman is as cheap as I go. Besides quality issues, I prefer their designs. By all means buy cheap stuff that works for the casting process. I do and the kitchen stuff works good.

Don't worry about not knowing everything when you start. You can cast and shoot good bullets while you are learning all the technical stuff. If you get some leading or something, don't worry, you can fix it later as you learn.

I guess I should retract my first statement about talking you into something!!

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 08, 2010, 10:32:31 AM »

Don't forget U Tube , there are a bunch of great videos that show step by step instructions for different aspects of the casting hobby .

Just type in " Bullet Casting "

stimpy

Tommyt · « **Reply #17 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:20:38 AM »

http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm

I see this was mentioned this page really put a smile on my face and a very good feeling about cast
there is a wealth of info and if you go to Cboolits you may get caught up in the scientific mumbo jumbo
Not that its a bad place but first things first melt and pour
Go ahead and make your self some ingots and then post how you felt when you took them out of the Mold

Trophy/Grin comes to mind

Tommyt