Bug Out ?

[SHOOTALL]

Ok what will you really take / have ?
If things start with warning you can use what you have packed or ready to grab.
Lets bunp it up a degree- you are at work , or on vacation, or on a business trip , or a few blocks away from home and the home was destoried . What will you really have ? Clothes ? food ? money ? personal ID and important papers ?, weapons ? water ? medicine ?
When you bug out it is life changing in the most complete way. What you don't take with you may be gone for good . It may also be the one thing you find you could have used most.
 So you may have a safe full of AR's , AK's And M1-A's but the j frame in your pocket , clothes on your back and cash in your pocket may be all you have . So whats on your person when SHTF ?

[Lurker]

In the situation you outlined in your last two sentences, the first thing you need to do is bend over backwards and kiss your butt good-bye...

I'm not trying to be funny either...

A smart person wouldn't be caught with so few articles to surive with. You need to have a get home bag, or a bug out bag, in your vehicle at all times. I have a large backpack in my vehicle at all times.

If you had a first edition of Mel Tappans book, "Survival Guns," I'm one of the three people he dedicated his book to, that isn't named Capone, from Kings Gun Works. I say this in the case you may think I may not know what I'm talking about.

Bill

[SHOOTALL]

I don't really think you can KYAGB in all cases . But its a tuff hand to play. Thinking about it now will make it easier .
I drive most places so I can have alot of good stuff with me. I have places to go out of state ( friends homes ) if need be . Where I can resupply if needed or hold up until my home is safe .
 A good example was a hunting trip. The week after 9/11 i crossed into Canada to hunt for a week. We were in my truck loaded for hunting with a boat in tow. Not thru any intention of ours for survival we were well set up to get by for a while. Well about a half hr. after crossing My wife calls and ask where we were . I told her Canada she says great the US just shut down the borders . I told my hunting buddies and one said hope the shells hold out  might be a longer trip !
Learned two things - you may not know what events will take place and being prepared is a good feeling. Some other things - our country had been bombed and it shut down the borders WHATS COMMING ? How long would it be before we could get home ? TV in Canada is not so great about quality news where we were hunting. What happens when the cash runs out ? will credit cards work ?

Anyway I seldon go out of country or fly . I don't visit places that are not friendly to my liberty. IE if they don't trust me with a weapon I don't trust them with one 

Some food and a cooler just makes every trip just a bit more comfortable.

[Swampman]

Why would you think you'll be coming home again?

[Dixie Dude]

I always have in my vehicle a plastic box with an entrenching tool, pick, machette, Cold Steel bushman, boots, hunting clothes, parachord, and a backpack.  My vehicle is about 50' outside my door at work.  It is a 4wd also.  I also have a 5 gallon military gas can with spout.  I used to carry some food, but I would forget to rotate it and it would spoil in the hot sun and cold winter nights.  On me I do have some cash and credit cards.  Usually have a handgun of some sorts in the vehicle.  In fall-winter, maybe a rifle or shotgun.  I probably need to stash a 10-22 in there.  One Item I do like is the Cold Steel Bushman.  It is strong and sharp, and with it's hollow tapered handle can be attached to a shaft for a spear.  I also have a frog gig head in my box.  I live in the southeast, so rivers and streams are abundant around here.  I also carry a couple of paperback books in plasti bags.  I also have a takedown longbow with 36 arrow shafts with field points.  Have the broadheads seperate in a box.  The bow and arrowshafts all fit in a tube quiver.  I have extra bow strings also.  One is eatable and medicinal plants, one is snaring and trapping.  I think I could survive alone or with my family in the eastern woodlands if stealth and evasion is necessary.  Most farms are large fields of cotton or soybeans around my area, forests in the hilly areas and around creek and river bottoms, and cattle farms.  I don't forsee needing any of this unless something terrible happens to the country or economy. 

[SHOOTALL]

Why would you think you'll be coming home again?

Hope !

[bilmac]

We used to play this game back and forth in Alaska. The other guys on the staff always argued that we needed a dufflebag, about 20# worth of stuff for a survival bag. My idea was that you wouldn't have the 20# bag when you needed it, and always kept a few minimal needs in my pockets when I went out.

Eventually my theory got tested. I was dropped off in mid winter to do a survey, the plane was going to be back later that day and pick me up. The survival bag was in the plane and I thought about throwing it out and just leaving it on the ground at the place we were landing and taking off, but there was another guy doing the same thing in another place at the same time and if I took it he wouldn't have anything so I left it on the plane.

So of course it fogged up and the plane could not get back on the ground. They measured -30 in town that night, but I wasn't particularly uncomfortable, I just started a fire and kept it going. I had a couple of space blankets to keep me from getting wet and even some military survival rations so I didn't go hungry. The plane came back next morning and all was well.

We go through the same argument about guns, do you need a J frame in your pocket or an AR 15 with 1500 rounds. Best to have both, but just because you have the AR, don't fail to have stuff you need attached to your body. Back when I was working I always had a folding belt knife with a magnesium fire starter in the case even when I was planning on spending a day in the office. You never know.

[Jay, Tx]

Well, I would be going back home anyway in hopes that my wife and child were still alive, and to see if there was anything I could scrounge from the disaster (whatever that was).

But to address the topic; When I'm out at work, I'm in my work truck. And besides the 1911 that lives in the truck, my "truck rifle" which is either my 222rem, or my 7-08, is always in the truck as well along with about 50rnds of ammo (reloading box full, less what I've used). Then there are the tools I carry. Lot's of goodies! Full range of tools, hammers, cordless tools, power inverters (1 small, and 1 very large), extension chords, 6' step ladder, 8' step, and 32' extension, B-tank torch, long sip ties, screws, various copper, fittings, silfos, rope, come-alongs (2), always a change of clothes, rain gear, and lots of misc stuff that's been rolling around in the boxes for years.

So, if in this truck, I think I'd be in much better shape than the avg person.

If not in this truck, I'd either be out for the evening, on a vacation, or out hunting or fishing.  If out for the evening, I'd only hope I could be home in time to salvage something, or my work truck somehow survived. If on vacation, my family is with me, which is most important at the time, and I could make a plan then. If hunting or fishing, then I'm pretty well covered here, but will still need to get to my family, or get them to me.

I think all of the bug out scenarios are good to think about, and plan for sensibly. But I think the one thing that will decide whether someone lives or dies is their ability to make rational choices in the face of a looming disaster. Cool headedness and rational thinking under pressure will be a much larger determining factor than any amount of gear (within reason) that someone may have. In today's world there is a whole host of "survival" gear available, one just has to look around, recognize what's valuable, and use their head.

Also, having a BOL that is fairly well prepared for whatever would be a huge benefit if caught with your pants down.

[TX Devil Doc]

Interesting topic...
I'm not sure I fully understand the situation you are suggesting.
Could you be more specific about what you mean by "SHTF"?
I know what it means, but what do you mean?
The reason I ask is because different situations require different approaches.
An example, why carry food when you can go to a store and buy or take it?
Also, I am amazed at what people buy for their survival bag... top of the list, space/survival blankets!

[Scibaer]

devil doc,
 i have a BOB and a 72 hr bag, and i have a space blanket in both.
 both bags focus on fire, shelter, food , water and medical ..
 from your statement,  i take that you dont like the idea of packing the space blanket.
why is that, what am i missing ?
 

[tacklebury]

Space blankets, especially if kept along with a wool outer blanket can save your behind.  I have 2 family members that used them to keep from hypothermia during blizzard conditions accompanied by ice that broke power lines here.  My step brother had just moved back to his home after going through Chemo treatments for cancer.  He was moving good and had a good review, but was a little thin and still working on getting his weight back up (was kinda stickly to begin with).  Anyway, he'd been home for 2 days and we had a 3 day blizzard which had everything including plows pretty locked down.  Then we got 2 days of freezing rain; big limbs breaking, power lines breaking down and people sliding around and into everything including power poles.  Johnny lost power and his house has a new furnace that doesn't even light without electricity.  He kept the space blanket and a comforter around his shoulders/body and sat on the 5 gallon pail he used for ice fishing, which was set up to have his lantern/candle lantern put inside it to keep his tush warm.  He used his kerosine lantern on very low for 3 days keeping himself going until we could get down to him and bust up the ice/snow packing his driveway and power came back on a few hours later.  We also had another relative that used a space blanket and wool military blanket to keep himself going.  If you live in the cold, they can help a lot... 

The MOST important thing to have that you can carry is a good pocket knife.  I never go anywhere (except airports) without at least my Swiss Officers model knife (not the big one), my Swisstech Folding screwdriver/pliers and a pair of fingernail clippers.  Whenever I'm outside I also carry my lock back skinning knife.  At least with these I can fashion implements/weapons, do minor vehicular repairs, work on electronics and use as utensils.  Everything else can come from nature, but having a knife is paramount to me!  I find I can even carry these comfortably in my dress pants pockets.

[scootrd]

Tee shirt , flip flops, straw hat , and a good Pina colada mix, Cause if the scenario being discussed ever happens , I will be on a beach in The Bahamas or Bora Bora , of wherever there is a cool island breeze. I will set up shop selling Tee shirts to tourists.
"The SHTF and all I got was this lousy shirt. "

[Couger]

Why would you think you'll be coming home again?

 Hope !  

"Why would you think you'll be coming home again?"  Because most people are not prepared nor knowledgeable to totally "ruff it" in the hills or woods!

I agree most city folks are ill prepared and a significant (huge) portion will likely die, but most folks will "camp out" in their homes if possible - because its their property if they own it!  But even if there's no running water or electricty most folks will still be more comfortable taking shelter in their home, sleeping in their beds ..... even if the have to find and carry in water, crap in an outhouse they dig in the back yard, and do much of their cooking out of doors ......  However biggest problems I see with this scenario if water and enough food can be found (whether it was or was NOT laid up ahead of time for such a crisis), are roving gangs or "have nots" stealing what someone might have, and or murdering for it!

I don't disagree that having a rural home in the country with a few "trusted" like-minded neighbors, or survival retreat is much more preferred to trying to stay in the city!

[SHOOTALL]

Staying in a city could mean sure death

[Scibaer]

I agree, a very large number of people will try and stay in there homes, its human nature at work. But it wont take too long for those people to starve or die from illness. And there will be fights over food and other supplies, and its not to hard to imagine that people will band together in gangs to try and survive, using that working together mentality will be a benefit.  It wont take long for living in the cities, to turn into an unbelievable hell and there would be no real future in it.
rural or country living would be a better option, away from all the death and disease , if one could maintain what they needed to survive on.
but many many people, city and rural , survival ready and the have not's will die.  
i want to say, that luck or sheer random acts will play a large part in who survives, dont die of some new or known disease, but being prepared, survival training , bushcraft or something like that , will allow you to be far ahead of the death curve , not needing to come into the high risk zones for food, water , medical supplies and risk death

[SHOOTALL]

Man has been heading for the hills since time began !

[teddy12b]

If you haven't already, you may enjoy reading the book One Second After.  After reading that book, I took extra precautions with my preparations.  Now I keep a camelbak in the back of my vehicle.  Strapped on it I have a space blanket with a poncho liner on one side of it.  Inside the bag are some MRE's and a hollow handled survival knife full of fishing line, hooks, and flys.  I keep a regular 2qt canteen in my vehicle filled up most of the time also, because I'm one of those guys who can put down a lot of water without a second thought.  The bag also has first aid, and lighters.  I use my tahoe for work and sometimes I have to drive across state lines, so for me that means no guns. even though I'm still considering a marlin papoose, but I need to add a slingshot to my bag in the mean time.  I have a truck box in the back with a folding shovel, hacket, folding saw, plenty of rope & a tarp.  If I can get to my truck and it's still running I'll be ok, for a while.

What you need is food, water, shelter, and a means to keep yourself safe and healthy.  Whatever we have with us where ever we are will eventually run out and like Lurker said, everyones days are pretty much numbered at that point.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment here that many people won't make it if things get real ugly.  Especially in my generation where we didn't grow up on farms and most people 30 and under are content to play playstation rather than go hunting or fishing and the closest they've ever come to the military was a video game.  The fundamentals of survival just aren't there.

[Scibaer]

i have a very well prepared bug out bag, a 72hr bag and a micro survivial tin,
they are with me always, or in close reach.
 i have refined the items i carry , i replace and get better quality items and when i read or hear about something better, i replace what i have for that item. i have redundant systems for shelter, fire, water, food, medical and navigation.
the survival tin will support me , to get to my 72 hr bag which will support me long enough to get back to my BOB.
and the BOB will sustain me until i can get to some real survivable living space., but each piece can be enough support on thier own.

alot of fellas have a setup like mine, but when i ask them, have they ever tried it out in the woods for 24 hours, i get a no, but i want to answer.
well i have and i know from my own experience what works and what really dont. i even have used the not so tasty water purification tablets.
you have to use the stuff , and find out what really works and wont work for you

[teamnelson]

I'm a skills over gear guy anyway, so this suits my fancy. My brain is always with me, and I try to keep my body fit enough that my physical reaction would be appropriate. I have a spartan BOB, and some useful stuff in the cars. Can't have firearms with me though as I work on a military base (guess we don't want your liberty here SHOOTALL  ). But I also always have a quality folding knife and fire starter in my pocket, and razor blade in my wallet. I'll be dressed for the weather already. Grab a snickers and a bottle of water, and I'm good for a day. Whatever I don't have (i.e. firearm, shelter, next meal) I'll be strategizing on how to get quickly. None of the vending machines at my site are bolted to the ground ... I've checked.

And like scibaer said, test your gear. I have comfortably spent the night in my clothes with only the shelter of a tree, and what I had in my pockets ... in the sonoran desert, woods of Ft. Polk, sierra nevadas in 6' of snow. I wasn't fat & happy, but I lived. Amazing what you can do if you have to.

[Scibaer]

Yes, i agree. its all about skills over gear. but i look at it this way, the more versatile i am the better.
i can use bushcraft to support technology / gear or the other way round, what ever works best at any given time.

to that end, i tried the lint from the dryer, that many people suggest as fire tinder.
      here is what i found, it takes a spark very good, but if its wet, its useless.
      it burns very quickly, and not all that hot. so im going to coat it with petroleum jelly.
that should make it somewhat waterproof ( damp proof at least ) and and maybe allow it to burn longer and hotter, i'll see.

[teddy12b]

so im going to coat it with petroleum jelly.

I read about doing that with regular organic rope so I gave it a try.  I cut up a bunch of 2" long pieces of organic rope and rubbed vaseline all over them.  I really tried to fully saturate the rope with vaseline and it seemed to have worked.  I made a point of fraying both ends of the ropes pretty good and the second the lighter hit those pieces they went up and stayed lit for a little while like a candle.  I'd recommend doing it.

[SHOOTALL]

Just get a small plastic jar of PG and stuff some cotton balls in it and some in a plastic bag for fire starting

[Scibaer]

i have several different ways to get a fire going.
this is just some experimenting on my part, i do know the most common way is cotton balls and vaseline.
 if the lint works, then what the heck, its free more or less. and all i am doing is adding this as an addition to my tinder kit

and reading Teddy12b's post, what is organic rope and where do you find such a thing ?

[teddy12b]

and reading Teddy12b's post, what is organic rope and where do you find such a thing ?

I really don't know what makes it organic.  I bought it at a do-it-yourself hardware store because it was the only non-nylon rope that they had.  I don't think it's the best stuff out there for starting a fire, but it's pretty good.  I was the closest thing I could find to what I was really looking for.  Basically any rope that isn't nylon soaked in vaseline will burn like a candle wick for a little while.

[SHOOTALL]

Its hemp rope , yep from the pot plant. Funny thing is until Dupont came up with syn. fibers to make rope pot was legal in this country . Wonder if the two events are related ?