Author Topic: Survival .....Can You fire a ...  (Read 1423 times)

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TM7

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Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« on: August 02, 2010, 02:26:29 PM »
Had a discussion with some guys over the weekend and we talked about ammo shortages and making do.

I said you can fire a 44 mag in 444 Marlin, although not recommended, and I said you'd be better off with a lite 44 mag load or a 44 Special.  I happen to have seen this work with Ok results..

But will a .410 guage fire in a 444 Marlin or a 45-70...??  I know some cowboy shooters were using full length Russian .410 brass for some shooting; or were they using 444 Marlin brass in their shotguns...??  can't remember.


..TM7

Offline Swampman

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 02:30:14 PM »
The .444 brass can be made into .410 shotshells.  I would think the .44s would not work in the .444.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 02:40:10 PM »
There's considerable difference between 44mag and 444 Marlin case diameter.

Tim

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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 02:46:11 PM »
this has been discussed a few times on different posts here.
1) never a good idea to shoot something in a gun that the gun was not designed for.
2) even if a 410 would shoot and cycle in a 444 or a 45-70
 the rifleing will fling the shot all over the place making wing shooting impossible.
Much like shooting a snake shot load out of a handgun.  10 feet it starts to open up and by 15 there is a hole in the pattern that would miss the snake.  I thought my 44 mag would be the untimate survival rifle.  Slugs, bird shot and everything from holly cow heavy loads to mouse burp loads.  The mags worked OK, some specials did not feed from the mag (knew they would make the gun a bolt action)  and the shot shells barly killed a tins can at 15 feet.
I know a guy at my last club that tried to load 44 Shot cups in his 444 and even made a choke tube like those on a T/C to grab the wad and straiten it.  He could not hit a clay bird with it from on top of the house.  Maybe ground sloose a bird , maybe not.  i think you would have a better chance of shooting it in the head with a slug.
I think if you are looking for a ultamate survival gun you will have to look at a combo or cape gun (2 different calibers) or drilling (3 barrels could be three differnt may only be two)  or vierling (4 same as drilling.  Many vierlings are drillings with a rimfire or hornet in a rib)
or just a plain jane shot gun with screw in chokes that includes a rifled one for slugs.

Offline sachel.45

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 07:17:57 PM »
i got to thinking that a single shot 12 ga and some of those chamber adapters would be kind of nice to have wouldn't weigh much either
common sense is slowly becoming uncommon

Offline Rolandedwinjohnson

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 06:15:44 AM »
Well, I have both a 444 and a 410. I don't know about shooting but, I've found that I can not chamber a 410 2 1/2 shell in the 444 but - and this is scarry - I can chamber a 444 in the 410.  One would be OK the other could ruin someones day.

I have heard that the 44-40 is a decent sub load for the 444 but I have not tried doing it.

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 04:46:41 PM »
In a true survival situation there are few things off limits.
You make what you have at the time, work.
I saw my dad wrap cardboard around a 16 gauge shell and shoot it in a 12 gauge.
If you are somewhat knowledgeable about what you need to do at the time, you can make it work. Key word being (need).
This is not meant for someone dumb to start sticking different size shells in guns to go plinking but for the person that needs to get a bullet down range to survive.   

Offline mechanic

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 05:12:23 PM »
TM, I like your over under idea.  I've always wanted one of those old Savage' but just never got around to it.  Ideal in a 20 ga. and .223.  Or a '06 and rimfire.  Or any combo. ;)
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Offline vacek

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 04:41:13 AM »
Guerilla Gunsmithng by Ragnar Benson does a decent job on this subject.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2010, 04:56:05 AM »
  I've spent a LOT of time in the bush with my 12ga/30-06 and never felt handicapped at all...  I even took quite a bit of big game with it,



  Personally, if i'm going to carry a combo gun hunting, or for survival reasons, the bbls have to be "properly regulated" to the sights, and it must have a good detachable scope mount that comes back to zero when remounted EVERY TIME, so that leaves those Savages at the gun store...

  DM

Offline Dee

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2010, 06:07:58 AM »
To fire 410 shot shells your gonna have to STEP UP to 45 caliber, not down to 44. When my dad was a kid he used to shoot 410 shells in a Springfield Trap Door 4570 I think.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2010, 06:24:14 AM »
I think the 444 Marlin was a lengthened adaptation of the 44 mag...same head dimensions..

They don't have the same case head, the 44mag has a ~.457" case head, the 444 is ~.471" depending on who's drawing is referred to. 

Tim

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Offline blind ear

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2010, 06:51:23 AM »
DrillingMan, what is the breed of your 12/06 combo? I wanted a Valmet back in the day.

I have a SAVAGE 22/410 combo I have been "going to regualte" for about 20 sumpthin years now. I agree with you for the most part, except for absolutely no other choice than the savage.

eddiegjr
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2010, 09:34:53 AM »
TM, I like your over under idea.  I've always wanted one of those old Savage' but just never got around to it.  Ideal in a 20 ga. and .223.  Or a '06 and rimfire.  Or any combo. ;)

I saw a .223/20 gauge today.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Survival .....Can You fire a ...
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2010, 03:31:07 PM »
DrillingMan, what is the breed of your 12/06 combo? I wanted a Valmet back in the day.

I have a SAVAGE 22/410 combo I have been "going to regualte" for about 20 sumpthin years now. I agree with you for the most part, except for absolutely no other choice than the savage.

eddiegjr

  The combo in the pict. is a Valmet 412, and there's plenty of them still around...

  DM