Tumbling LIVE ammo?

[HHI #4694]

I have never tumbled live ammo and when I was taught to reload, it was a big no no. Sort of the same reason you don't load spitzers in a lever action tube magazine, primer to spitzer tip contact can result in a catasrophy.

I have a couple thousand rounds of old dirty 270, 30-06, and 9mm ammo. I have had at least six people tell me it is perfectly safe to tumble these rounds to clean them. What do my knowledgable friends at Graybeards say about this?

[Slowpoke Slim]

Perfectly safe. I tumble live ammo whenever it's needed.

[billy_56081]

I too tumble live ammo when needed. From what I have heard Remington tumbles all of its ammo.

[securitysix]

I wouldn't be too worried about bullets setting off primers in the tumbler, though I suppose that could happen.  I'd worry more about what happens inside the case. 

Tumbling the ammo means tumbling the powder, which could very well start to break down.  The burn rate of powder is controlled partly by the size and shape of the powder granules, but also largely by a chemical coating on the outside of the powder granules that helps retard burning to the appropriate rate.  By breaking down the powder, you expose the inside of the powder granules, which do not have the coating.  You could very well increase the burn rate of the powder to very unsafe levels.

I'm not saying "don't" tumble them.  What I'm saying is that I certainly wouldn't.

[Graybeard]

First let me say right up front I have ZERO experience tumbling live ammo and doubt that will change.

I read somewhere and not on the internet long ago it was a bad idea and the reason given was the tumbling might (NOT would for sure but MIGHT) remove the deterrent coating and thus change the burning rate of powder which might cause pressures to sky rocket. Seems logical that it could happen.

I think it would be most likely with loads that don't fill the case and leave a lot of room for the powder granules to rub against each other and to that end it also seems likely to me it would be worse with stick powders than ball powders but ball powders are the ones generally using the deterrent coating the most so perhaps it's really a moot point entirely. I think if the charge was a compressed on then there would be no such rubbing thus no chance of a coating being removed to change the burn rate.

All that is theoritical to me cuz as I said I've not done it and quite frankly see no reason why I would ever do so. On the internet I've seen lots of comments from folks who say they've done it with no problems and also lots of comments from folks who say it did have detrimental effects. What does that really mean? It might be some times it does and some times it don't. It might also be we have too many internet experts with no real world experience at what they are giving advice on.

In this case I have zero experience so will give no advice but I personally don't do it.

[mdi]

I've seen several "discussions" on this topic. One side says don't do it. The tumbling of the powder will change it's charistics, resulting in dangerous pressure. The other side says it's ok, that ammo manufacturers clean all their loaded ammo this way. I really don't have too much of an opinion on this issue, my ammo isn't dirty enough to bother, and it rarely lasts long enough to corrode!

[mcwoodduck]

I know there are two camps on this.
I understand that tumbling may cause the powder to .... Well what break the stick type, crack the ball, or wear away the coating on either pellet that will change the ammo.
Is there a type of powder that is more suseptable to this than others?
Would Ball powders have a problem from tumbeling but flake and stick powder would not or is it more the coating on any of the types that can get knocked off turning propellents into explosives?
Or am I missing the whole thing?

[Tom W.]

I'm on the side that says go ahead if you want to, but you ain't gonna get me to do it..

[billy_56081]

One member here tested the tumbling loaded ammo by loading a batch and tumbling half. After tumbling he fired both the tumbled and untumbled loads, there was no difference in velocity and SD on the rounds.

[Swampman]

Ammo doesn't have to be shiny but I've tumbled my cartridge collection without an issue.

[HAMMERHEAD]

I wouldn't be too worried about bullets setting off primers in the tumbler, though I suppose that could happen.  I'd worry more about what happens inside the case. 

Tumbling the ammo means tumbling the powder, which could very well start to break down.  The burn rate of powder is controlled partly by the size and shape of the powder granules, but also largely by a chemical coating on the outside of the powder granules that helps retard burning to the appropriate rate.  By breaking down the powder, you expose the inside of the powder granules, which do not have the coating.  You could very well increase the burn rate of the powder to very unsafe levels.

This is exactly what Sierra warns of in it's reloading manual. The longer you leave it in, the greater the risk.

[fastchicken]

I've never had the need to tumble live ammo, but I would not hesitate to do so, I don't see how 15-20 minutes in the tumbler could be worse than the hours factory ammo spends on trains and in trucks.

[BBF]

I've done it, would do it again if needed. The only thing I did not do is mixing cartriges ie pistol and rifle together and I did not pack the tumbler tight.

BTW Does anyone know how the coatings are put on the powder granules in the first place. Perhaps  by tumbling

[teddy12b]

I did it once by accident when a loaded round somehow got mixed in with empty brass.  I was surprised but the soft point of the bullet didn't look messed up at all or worn off, just looked shiney.  It was a handloaded 223 that I ended up firing out of a rifle safe for 5.56.  I'm not going to make a habbit of it, but in that case I tried it.

[HAMMERHEAD]

I don't see how 15-20 minutes in the tumbler could be worse than the hours factory ammo spends on trains and in trucks.

BTW Does anyone know how the coatings are put on the powder granules in the first place. Perhaps  by tumbling

Those are assumptions that you can make.
I don't like to add unknown factors to my ammo.

[JASmith]

A lot will depend on what we mean by "tumbling."

I would guess the vibratory tumblers will be less likely to create excitement from nose-primer contact than the classic rotary tumblers where things fall a bit.

In any event, I would pay close to the manufacturer's literature for recommendations and cautions. 

You could also pose your question with your tumbler manufacturer.

[Lloyd Smale]

I did a test a few years back using a 308 and ball and stick powders. I tumbled rounds for about 3 hours and chrono tested them before and after and there was absolutely no differnce in any of them. I dont think id leave them overnight but a couple hours wont hurt a thing. Theres certainly not enough force imparted to a primer in a tumbler to make one go off. From what i understand factory ammo is tumbled after it is made and then boxed up so if they do it why not me.

[SHOOTALL]

I have tumbled some whan a live round was mixed in . On at least one time i tumbled some to clean them . I would ask if the vibration in a tank, chopper, apc, jet or other military vehicle is less than a cleaner ? Or just the trip from Russia to the USA for commerical ammo . Ammo sees quite a bit of movement before it gets to the end user. I have ammo that stays in the 4 wheeler and truck . Ammo in the duck boat during season.

[gypsyman]

If all you want to do is make the brass look pretty, and you don't have alot of it, why not take a brass scouring pad, and just polish the outside of the case.
I don't think I'd want to do 500 of them, but if all you have is 50 or so, hand polish them.
Now, if the brass it's self is corroded, I would probably just pull the bullets, and if I had reloaded it, save the powder and primer, and discard the brass to the salvage bucket. gypsyman

[simplicity]

I thought this same way never to do it, I started a thread a while ago where I had  about 800 reloads of 223 from my dillon and I was asking how folks  got the resizing lube off of a mass quantity and the tumbler discussion went into full force. I have to really aggree with shootall about haveinth the millitary strap ammo to the vehicles and I honestly think that all gets vibrated much more then in the tumbler. IF it really did break it down that bad the military would have found out about it a long time ago. another thing is in a tumbler used for shell polishing rather then a tumbler used in a machine shop it uses corn cobb grounds rather then stones and the shells especially if they are loaded are heavy and more or less just float in a shell polisher so honestly I can't see how in a tumbler even after being in it for days would break down even a 60% density load. me I do polish live rounds to get sizing lube off but thats all I have no other need for it and it usually takes about 20 minutes to get the lube off from about 250 cases. Thats my 2 cents  hope it helps.

[MGMorden]

I don't do it regularly, but I have done it in the past with no ill effects.  I certainly wouldn't worry about a primer being set off, but I'd never heard of the possible problem of the powder changing forms before.  I'll think about it before I do it again, but like I said, it's no something I've really done much of anyways.

[jhalcott]

 After a year setting on the floor of my jeep, I had some 6mm ammo get a bit "hotter". Never chronoed it ,but the bolt got sticky near the end of the 50 round box! I also think a tumbler might be more problems than a vibratory unit. Yes , the ammo was on the floor most of that year. Hard roads and farm fields bounced around daily.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I always get a chuckle out of this subject.

I mean think about it rationally for just a minute. We buy powder for reloading, right? Ever shake a "full" can of powder? It isn't exactly "full", now is it? How does that powder get to us? Shipped by the various freight methods, train, semi truck, UPS truck, etc. It gets "handled" at each warehouse distribution point, and then loaded back on another freight conveyance until it finally gets to a store near you and gets placed on a shelf.

Any of you ever ride in a semi truck? I can tell you from personal experience that it "ain't no Cadillac ride" there. I've never ridden on a freight train, but I have been standing next to them when they go by. The very ground itself shakes when they pass by.

You guys ever watch UPS or FedEx load and unload their trucks, I mean at a warehouse or distribution center? It's not pretty. They would make airport baggage handlers proud.

If this was really an "issue" with powder, we'd all be dead already.


Same goes for factory loaded ammo. It didn't get "beamed" to that store shelf. It got "shake'd, rattle'd and roll'd" there. For hours, or DAYS at a time.

Tumble it when you need to and don't worry about it.

[fast*eddie]

I'm on the side that says go ahead if you want to, but you ain't gonna get me to do it..

I was thinking the same thing ! It may shake , rattle and roll like stated in the above post but the primers don't come in contact with each other in the transporting like they would in a tumbler .

[SHOOTALL]

You must have one violent tumbler if the rounds hit that hard