Question for the 45-70shooters.... 405 gr hollow base bullet

[thejanitor]

Hello- we have our first 45-70 Handi and have shot some jacketed 300 gr. bullets we liked and then some 405 gr. cast someone had laying around their garage. Both were fine to shoot but when I look at molds to buy I see the 405 gr molds have a hollow base. I know in the sense of a minnie ball flaring out and fitting tight to the barrel it was a good thing. Do they increase leading? The flat base lead cast we shot were just fine, a friend sized and lubed them for me with a red wax he said was good to over 2400 ft per second.
What I want to know is are any of you using this 405 gr hollow based mold? Do they shoot like any other bullet? I hoped to find a 300 gr 45-70 mold but didn't locate a company offering that.
This could be a reloading forum question (if it gets moved sorry for the hassle Tim) Just figured since it is a Handi I would get a little better feedback here. Thank you for any input you may share.
thejanitor

[dangerranger]

Ups just dropped my lee 405 HB mold at my house. I chose it because so many have had good sucess with it. even in over sized bores. it also holds alot of lube making it a good canadate for a BP bullit. before buying this mold I had only shot Rem jacketed 405s and Hornaday leverevolution , also a jacketed bullit. the hornadays are at the top of the loads Id want to shoot from this gun. they run 2200fps. with a cast bullit I have seen loads that will get the 405s to 1900fps but most are from 1200-1600fps. any faster and leading will be more likely.a good source of info is load data .com. they have most published data in one place. good luck DR

[petemi]

I haven't cast my own, and I don't believe I'm going to fool with it.  I just don't feel the health hazards, the fuel, the lead, the molds, and everything is worth it.  Ready made cast boolits are cheap enough...even GCs.  My Handi .45-70 LOVES the .405 Remingdingdongs.  They chronyed last week at 1929.  That ought to handle anything in North America, and perhaps most of the world.

Pete

[coues2506]

Hollow base bullets are intended for black powder muzzle loaders where pressure and vel are low. Use a hard cast 405 for the 45-70. The hollow base expands to seal the bore and engage the rifling if it's a rifled barrel. At higher pressure the skirt will blow out ruining accuracy. Hollow base bullets are usually cast from pure lead and will lead the bore over 1000 fps. Use Oregon Trail 405's and never look back. The Remington bulk pack 405 jacketed gives me very tight groups at 100 yds. I have no use for a 300 gr. The sectional density is just too poor. And the 500 are for very long range shooting or elephants and rhinos. Umm - hippos too.

[petemi]

The Remington bulk pack 405 jacketed gives me very tight groups at 100 yds.

That's what I'm shooting

Pete

[GeorgiaDave]

Hello,
 
   I have tried a few cast bullets and they did not do well for me. Not sure why, but I gave them up. I have found that 350 gr. JSPs loaded hot do everything I could possibly ask. The recoil is strong, but not at all uncontrolable and accuracy is unbelievable from my bone stock Handi. The 3 shot 100 yd. group shown here measured 1/2" and has been repeated several times with witnesses left shaking their heads in disbelief. Not to bad for an old "boat paddle push button". Maybe you should try the 350's. Hope this helps.

Dave

[mechanic]

I've shot a LOT of the hollow base.  I cast them from WW, and run them through my lubrisizer, then load to about 1200 fps.  (I don't have a chrony and am going by someone else's meas.).  I have no leading problems at this velocity.  IMO they are a low velocity round.  I load Cor Locs for hunting.  I shoot the lead in my Buffalo Classic, the jacketed in my 22".

It's just a matter of what you want to use them for.

Hope this helps,

Ben

[tacklebury]

Hello- we have our first 45-70 Handi and have shot some jacketed 300 gr. bullets we liked and then some 405 gr. cast someone had laying around their garage. Both were fine to shoot but when I look at molds to buy I see the 405 gr molds have a hollow base. I know in the sense of a minnie ball flaring out and fitting tight to the barrel it was a good thing. Do they increase leading? The flat base lead cast we shot were just fine, a friend sized and lubed them for me with a red wax he said was good to over 2400 ft per second.
What I want to know is are any of you using this 405 gr hollow based mold? Do they shoot like any other bullet? I hoped to find a 300 gr 45-70 mold but didn't locate a company offering that.
This could be a reloading forum question (if it gets moved sorry for the hassle Tim) Just figured since it is a Handi I would get a little better feedback here. Thank you for any input you may share.
thejanitor

If you want to push them much over 1200 fps you'll want to get into a lead bullet with a gas check, if you wish to use lead at those speeds.  I have yet to land on a load with lead that really shines in my BC.  Best group yet was over 2" at 100 yards.  The hollow base is actually designed for low pressure loads and helps the bullet seal to the rifling to AVOID leading.  If hot gasses bypass your bullet, it heats to a liquid and will spray into your bore. 

[thejanitor]

Thank you all, this is what I need to learn.  I appreciate the input.
thejanitor

[nicholst55]

There are any number of 400-ish grain plain base and gas check molds available for the .45-70.  If you match the diameter of the bullet to your groove diameter, and the alloy to the pressures you're loading for, you won't have leading - even with plain base bullets.

I shoot (real) black powder in my BC, and a 20:1 lead-tin alloy, plain-base bullet is plenty adequate for the velocity I can achieve.

[watkibe]

I have had the Lee 458-405-HB mould for at least 10 years. I chose it for the dumbest reason: since hollow base bullets can only be made in a single cavity style, it was the cheapest, haha! I did do a little justifying about it being the "original" bullet, blah, blah, blah...
It was a lucky choice. I get results that are quite satisfactory for me. I load it like a straight cased cast bullet load should be, velocity under 2000fps, neck expanded then crimped, and a powder designed for cast bullets, SR 4795. I get good (2-3") plinking groups out to a hundred yards or so. The low recoil and milder report help me train with my 1895G without tearing off an arm and ripping out an ear drum.
It is NOT my choice of bullet if I intend to kill something. There are plenty of good bullets that are much better for that purpose.

[NickSS]

The lee 405 HB mold casts bullets that are nearly identical to the original 45-70s ones the army used in 1873 and later.  It is a good bullet for trap door rifles or any other 45-70 and the work very well with black powder due to the amount of lube they hold.  I have found that they work best at between 1000 and 1400 fps.  As a 45-70 at those velocities will kill anything that walks on planet earth in the lower 48 its all I need.  If you want to go faster use either jacketed bullets or gas checked cast ones.  I guess I am a little soft as I do not like to get my teeth rattled when shooting at targets so do not routinely load hot loads in my rifles that take 45-70s becasue a load going 1300 with a 400 gr bullet has killed deer, elk, black bear, antelope and wild hogs just fine why beat myself up.  About the only time i thought a hot load was necessary was on a fishing trip to Alaska in an area frequented by large Kodiak bears.  Having seen them and seen them shot I loaded up some nice Remington 405 gr slugs at 1850 fps for my Marlin lever action to take with me and I did not feel over gunned. If I could carru it I would have taken a nice 37MM anti tank gun for bear medicine.

[Swampman]

The bores on .45-70 Handis vari quite a bit and some of the do not shoot the non-hollow base .457 Lee bullet very well because it's too small in dia.  The .459HB will shoot great in them at velocities that are suitable for the Handi.

There are no real health hazards with casting bullets except perhaps burning yourself if you're not careful.

[Freightman]

I had a BC that shot very well with the 405gr HB, but if you weigh them they are not 405 gr but 385 +- and mine drops slugs at .4605 I load them as cast dipped in 50/50, ( alox and bee's wax). They shoot very good at 1300/1500 fps and with soft lead do not lead and they do expand very good at 100/150 yds. Fit them to the chamber, the bore will take care of the sizing by its self. Had to get rid of the BC to help pay for my Shiloh 45/70 but with a little work the BC is as accurate at 100/300 yds and a lot lighter, although you can stand to shoot 500 gr bullets from the Shiloh, not that the BC will not handle them it is I can't handle them.