why don't you own a 30-06?

[moorepower]

I would say I have no need for the .30-06 because I have a .308, and with 180 grain bullets will eaisly kill anything "I" will ever hunt. But then I have a Garand, so I kind of have a .30-06, only Uncle Sam called it something else. The .30-06 is better than the .308 argument must also mean that the .300 WM is better than the .30-06, because it will shoot any bullet that the .30-06 will shoot only faster. Myself, I just have no desire to own one, other than George Patton's finest rifle.

[Mr. Joe]

I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds.  With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever.  If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe.   And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs.  The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same!   They were designed to be the same!

[MGMorden]

No reason not to own the good ol '06.  I currently own 2.  Have owned another once upon a time but I sold it because the barrel was shot out (wouldn't stabilize a bullet).  My Savage 110 in .30-06 is my absolute "go to" gun.  It's always accurate, always reliable, and generally just what I'll grab if I have any doubts.   I always check it before each season starts to make sure, but I literally haven't adjusted the scope zero on that gun in 6 years now.  Only problem is I lent that rifle to my brother last season and it still hasn't made it's way back home (not that I really mind - he's got a friend who's letting him hunt some leased land and he's got the possibility of some really long shots, and his only rifle is a .30-30, so I lent him the .30-06).  I'll likely be hunting more with my .257 Roberts this year. 

My other is a 1903 Springfield that was sporterized by someone else way back when.  It shoots pretty well - not as accurate as the Savage, but good enough to hunt with.  It's a little on the heavy side for my tastes though.

[Swampman]

I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds.  With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever.  If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe.   And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs.  The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same!   They were designed to be the same!

The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy.  The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.

[Drilling Man]

I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds.  With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever.  If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe.   And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs.  The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same!   They were designed to be the same!

  There's quite a bit of difference if you shoot heavy bullets, and that's why i prefer the 30-06 over the .308 Win..

  DM

[Mr. Joe]

I agree with that.  180 is as heavy as i go so it doesn't concern me, but for 200s and 220s the 06 is better.  150-180 though is splitting hairs.

[moorepower]

So by that logic a 300 Win Mag beats a .30-06 by a quite a bit. In my mind the only thing in North America that needs anything larger than a 180 grain from a .308 is the grizzly or polar bear, and some would say that a 180 is big enough for them.

[nomosendero]

If one is happy with what they use, that's cool with me. Like DM said, the heavy bullets give the 30-06 an edge. I have to include the 180's in that heavy group. If the 308 gives the velocity you are looking for, you are good to go, but the 30-06 will push the 180's harder.

I have watched this back & forth with Swampie & Joe with 50fps diff. being too low overall & 200fps difference being too high unless the bullet wt. extremes only were compared & only the one extreme compared to favor a point being made. For example, the 50fps is closer to right if comparing 150 gr. bullets but the 200fps would be closer if you looked at 200, but esp. the 220gr. bullets. In loading the 165gr. bullet in a 308, I have been able to get 2750 in a 24" 308 no problem & 2850 on ave. in a 30-06, some a little faster & some manuals showing speeds I never could achieve. Also, with the 180, 2600-2,625 with a 308 & 2,775-2,800 in the 30-06 after using RL-22 in the '06.
So easily we have a 100fps difference in the 165, 168,  & 125fps difference with 175, 180 & 185gr. range.
Cartridges of the World took the easy path & just said there was a diff. of 100fps with all wts.

If you look at alot of manuals and average all of those, the numbers will be close to this my numbers mention I think, OR if you "cherry Pick" the fastest 308 max loads & the slowest 30-06 loads you can get that 50fps diff. if that's the one you seek or cherry pick the slowest 308 loads & the fastest 30-06 loads if the 200fps diff. is what you like.  


I like & use both rounds & am not emotional about this as some aparantly are, but use what works for you.

[moorepower]

I would agree with 100 fps for up to 165, and 200 for 180's. I have no problem with the .30-06, and if I had found a rifle in that round first, I most likely would have gotten it. What I don't understand is the constant .308 bashing. You can always find a round that will out do another, but since 99% of hunters will never hunt elk let alone the big bears, I would say most are over gunned as it is. Myself, the 150 grain bullet does all I ever need on a white tail deer out to as far as I will shoot. FYI I have gravitated to a 7mm short mag, only because I found a gun I was fond of for the right price. Any thing .243 and up will kill a dear with great success.

[Drilling Man]

  I prefer 200 grain bullets for moose too, so it does make a difference to me.  Moose area "where i hunted" = brown bear area too...  For deer, it doesn't make any difference either way.

  The other thing is, i've hunted with a break open guns a lot, and they were/are chambered for 30-06 and not any 300 mags, so why not choose the 06 over the 308?

  Another thing, forget a long bullet in a short action/.308, they just don't do well in that case.

  DM

[teddy12b]

I like the 30-06 because of the variety of loads I can run through it.  For instance, in my rifle I have the following handloads.

168gr matchkings @ 2600fps: shoots just shy of 1/2" and it's my long range accuracy load.  Similar to 308 loads.

220gr prohunters @ 2300: I load these up for bear hunting.  My buddy did a number on a bear with this load.

168gr barnes tipped tsx @3000fps:  Shoots just shy of 1" and if I ever go out west and need a very flat shooting, expensive and nasty bullet.

My only complaint about the 30-06 is that to have a semi auto you don't have much for options.  I've got a DPMS in 308 that's just now being broken in, and it's slowly finding it's place at the top of my gun case.

[mrussel]

I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds.  With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever.  If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe.   And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs.  The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same!   They were designed to be the same!

The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy.  The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.

 Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.

[Drilling Man]

I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds.  With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever.  If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe.   And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs.  The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same!   They were designed to be the same!

The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy.  The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.

 Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.

  And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??

  DM

[teddy12b]

       And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??




You'd still have a nice rifle?

[bobg]

  The only rifle my Father ever owned was a 30-06. I still think he thought it was the only caliber made for whitetails. Just to upset him when i bought my first whitetail rifle i bought a 270. It has never let me down for the hunting i use it for.

[nomosendero]

I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds.  With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever.  If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe.   And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs.  The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same!   They were designed to be the same!

The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy.  The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.

 Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.

  And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??

  DM

A lousy comparison, which happens when "research" is done just using 2 guns to compare.

[Swampman]

Keep in mind that max loads listed for the .30-06 aren't even close to max.  We can't say the same for the .308.

[nomosendero]

Actually I did.  I use both the 308 & 30-06 as well as the 30-30AI in a Contender Super 14, pretty much ran the gament.  I don't have a dog in this hunt & like both rounds alot without an emotional tie to either. I did have one number low in summary of the 180. I stated with the 180, 2600-2650 with a 308 & 2800-2850 & 2775-2800 for the 30-06. I then said easily 125fps diff, my bad, looking at the numbers it would be 150-175 diff.

One thing that DM pointed out is the limitation of the heavies in the short action 308, this is true. In the case of a mag action like the long action M700 which is a true magnum action, you can seat the 06 out if the throat allow & pick up a few feet, so I would certainly understand a 200fps diff. in that case, I did just that with a 30-06 I owned. I was talking about 308's & 30-06's in general, not specific rifles.

My point was & is the fact that the diff. is not 200+ across the board, but again the heavier the bullet gets, the more the spread grows.

[1911crazy]

My very first hunting rifle is a 30-06 and its an old Western Auto Revelation manufactured by Mossberg in the early 70's.  I bought it new for $172 with scope and rings(package). To this day she can shoot nickle sized groups with my reloaded 180gr speer mag tip bullets.  I also own a remington 760 pump in 30-06 too.  I think the old '06 shoots better with the heavier rounds like 180gr and higher over the 308win.  I have rifles in 308win too so i have the best of both worlds.  My main hunting rifle now is a remington 700 in 338win mag with its 4,000ft lbs at the muzzle and 2,700ft lbs at 200yds it has the muzzle energy of the '06/308 again at 200yds. she's my bear gun and when betsy speaks people listen because the whole town hears her sound off.

[mrussel]

I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds.  With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever.  If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe.   And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs.  The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same!   They were designed to be the same!

The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy.  The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.

 Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.

  And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??

  DM

  Its a little more difference,but still,my point is,the difference in the two is getting to the point where its similar to the difference in guns. In fact,a fast barrel in a 06 vs a slow one might give you that sort of spread too.

[mrussel]

       And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??




You'd still have a nice rifle?

 I was going to say you either have a really nice 06 or you drew the short straw on your 308. In the former case you brag nonstop about how much more velocity your 06 gets than your buddies 308,ignoring the fact that the two guns are extreme examples,or if you have the 308,you either hang your head in shame,or just make up numbers and brag about them anyway.

[moorepower]

I just took a peek on the Hodgdon web site reloading center and the results surprised me. These loads are within 2k psi, so there is no need to tell me a .30-06 can be loaded hotter to get more velocity, unless you are going over sammi spec. The 125 grain bullets the 06 has about 140 fps on the 08. With 150 grain bullets the 06 has about 100 fps on the 08. With the 165 grain loads the 06 has about 65 fps on the 08. With the 180 grain the 06 still has about 65 fps on the 08. Now the one I was really surprised about was the 200 grain bullet, which the 06 has only 70 fps over the 08. The 220 grain bullet was not tested in the 08, so They have no data. These loads are the fastest loads listed for both rounds with the psi within 14-2Kspi for each. The only curve ball they threw me was H4350 is listed in c.u.p. which does not cross to psi. With these loads, I found another load that was within a few fps of the H4350. This is lab conditions with 2 tight barrels under the same conditions. Some would say that there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the two. I would say there is about exactly a nickles worth of difference between the two. Both are excellent rounds but if you have one of them, you probably have no real need for the other. It's kind of like comparing a 7mm Rem mag to a 7mm WSM. If you have one, why buy the other. Then again I have 3, .222's and 2, .223's, and there is not much between them either!

[mrussel]

I just took a peek on the Hodgdon web site reloading center and the results surprised me. These loads are within 2k psi, so there is no need to tell me a .30-06 can be loaded hotter to get more velocity, unless you are going over sammi spec. The 125 grain bullets the 06 has about 140 fps on the 08. With 150 grain bullets the 06 has about 100 fps on the 08. With the 165 grain loads the 06 has about 65 fps on the 08. With the 180 grain the 06 still has about 65 fps on the 08. Now the one I was really surprised about was the 200 grain bullet, which the 06 has only 70 fps over the 08. The 220 grain bullet was not tested in the 08, so They have no data. These loads are the fastest loads listed for both rounds with the psi within 14-2Kspi for each. The only curve ball they threw me was H4350 is listed in c.u.p. which does not cross to psi. With these loads, I found another load that was within a few fps of the H4350. This is lab conditions with 2 tight barrels under the same conditions. Some would say that there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the two. I would say there is about exactly a nickles worth of difference between the two. Both are excellent rounds but if you have one of them, you probably have no real need for the other. It's kind of like comparing a 7mm Rem mag to a 7mm WSM. If you have one, why buy the other. Then again I have 3, .222's and 2, .223's, and there is not much between them either!

 Nosler gives 06 a 119fps advantage at 180gr, 94fps at 165gr, 51fps @ 150gr and 91fps at 125gr. They list 2560fps in the 06 for 200gr,which is a little less than 100fps less than for a 180 in the 06,and about the same as a 180gr out of a 308. They also list 2487fps for the 220gr from the 06 which is only 69fps slower than the 180gr from a 308. I have to agree,if your shooting lighter bullets,and dont ever want to shoot the heavier ones,there is little difference. The advantage seems to be that the 06 is CAPABLE of using the heavier bullets very effectively,and while I have no data on the 08 at these weights,I do like the idea of having a rifle that has extra capabilities. Even if I dont want to know,perhaps I might want those heavier bullets in the future.

 I am actually interested in what the advantage of the 08 is. Its a little lighter,but Im not carrying hundreds of rounds of ammo.

[nomosendero]

I just took a peek on the Hodgdon web site reloading center and the results surprised me. These loads are within 2k psi, so there is no need to tell me a .30-06 can be loaded hotter to get more velocity, unless you are going over sammi spec. The 125 grain bullets the 06 has about 140 fps on the 08. With 150 grain bullets the 06 has about 100 fps on the 08. With the 165 grain loads the 06 has about 65 fps on the 08. With the 180 grain the 06 still has about 65 fps on the 08. Now the one I was really surprised about was the 200 grain bullet, which the 06 has only 70 fps over the 08. The 220 grain bullet was not tested in the 08, so They have no data. These loads are the fastest loads listed for both rounds with the psi within 14-2Kspi for each. The only curve ball they threw me was H4350 is listed in c.u.p. which does not cross to psi. With these loads, I found another load that was within a few fps of the H4350. This is lab conditions with 2 tight barrels under the same conditions. Some would say that there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the two. I would say there is about exactly a nickles worth of difference between the two. Both are excellent rounds but if you have one of them, you probably have no real need for the other. It's kind of like comparing a 7mm Rem mag to a 7mm WSM. If you have one, why buy the other. Then again I have 3, .222's and 2, .223's, and there is not much between them either!

That's a good source, but I look at it a little differently because different sources have different spreads. That's why someone else has given another source & so on, I will look at a whole wall full of manuals & writeup. Because they did not show much spread with the 200 means very little, the next source may show 250fps diff for one reason or another. Sometimes they don't use alot of powders, etc, but looking at alot of sources tend to even out things to see the real difference. I don't have a dog in this & use both & as stated before, the heavier the bullet, the more spread. But the 308 has other qualities, I just don't know why it can't be left at that.

[FourBee]

Why don't I own a 30-06 ?    I'm old and the recoil kills my shoulder.  My hearing is more sensitive now too, so without ear protection, I'd have a headache for a week or two.  But even when I was much younger I felt the -06 was a bit overkill for white-tail deer.  I studied the calibers and settled for a  .270.   Great rifle, but I can't bear to shoot it anymore, so I've downsized to a .223 Remingtion.  Hope I don't have to downsize anymore before I kick the bucket.

[moorepower]

I like to use a lot of sources to. The hodgdon site used 13 powders with the 200 grain .308 and over 20 powders with the .30-06, and they saw a grand 70 fps from trying over 20 powders! That is every IMR Winchester and Hodgdon powder that applies to either round. That is far more choices than ANY other source. The common argument is that the .308 is useless with 200 grain bullets because it will only fling them at 2300 fps, but the .30-06 is much more useful shooting a 220 grain pill at 2300 fps?  If you use a bullet like an A frame, no animal on the planet will no what they just got shot with. Do I have a dog in the fight? Kind of, because I found a .308 barrel for my KP1 before I found a .30-06 barrel. I would have been happy with either and I would take either hunting for anything in North America, but for the heavy bullets, I would much prefer a .300 Win Mag or a .300 H&H. If I wanted to shoot the heavy bullets with an 06, make it a .338!

[nomosendero]

I like to use a lot of sources to. The hodgdon site used 13 powders with the 200 grain .308 and over 20 powders with the .30-06, and they saw a grand 70 fps from trying over 20 powders! That is every IMR Winchester and Hodgdon powder that applies to either round. That is far more choices than ANY other source. The common argument is that the .308 is useless with 200 grain bullets because it will only fling them at 2300 fps, but the .30-06 is much more useful shooting a 220 grain pill at 2300 fps?  If you use a bullet like an A frame, no animal on the planet will no what they just got shot with. Do I have a dog in the fight? Kind of, because I found a .308 barrel for my KP1 before I found a .30-06 barrel. I would have been happy with either and I would take either hunting for anything in North America, but for the heavy bullets, I would much prefer a .300 Win Mag or a .300 H&H. If I wanted to shoot the heavy bullets with an 06, make it a .338!

How many test barrels did the Hodgdon site use for the 308 & for the 30-06, 1 each, 3 each, what. The fact that they used alot of powders is why I said it was a good source, but likely with a limited # of barrels used, & was either cal barrel a fat or slow barrel? That's why I don't use 1 source, if you look at the Hodgdon manual they will give A TEST GUN used, just like the other manuals. The other manuals used not as many powders but used a mix of Hodgdon, Reliant, Win. & VIHTpowders with the optimal burning rates for the cartridges discussed, Hodgdon had redundancy showing all the powders regardless of burn rate because they are a powder company, the other manuals are bullet companies showing only the best powders of all brands with a given bullet.
So, looking at just a few which in total give a far more accurate picture than just looking at one powder company source with a test rifle:

Sierra Fifth shows a 250fps spread with the 200gr.

Hornady has a 190 gr & with it the spread shows 300fps (that is just as high a spread as the Hodgdon is low)

The New Nosler Manual does not even bother with the 200 in a 308, but has a page full of 200 gr. '06 loads, but shows a spread of 164fps with a 180.

The New Speer Manual shows a spread of 155fps with the 200gr.

Now these combined have alot more powders used by ALL major brands, alot of different type bullets,
a heck of alot more powder used & a FAR more accurate picture of reality. So, puuting it all together is the way to go. Anyone who has loaded both of these rounds alot as I have and see 50-70fps diff. with the 200gr. knows that something is alittle off.

[jmckinley]

  Right nowI have a Custom CZ 24/47 in 06 and jst put a Weatherby Vanguard Sub Moa on layway in 06 and this is my 7th. It is my go to cal for everything I hunt. If it won't fall to an 06 then I don't need to hunt it. My small guns are 25-06, 243 and 223 but the 06 is what i reach for most often.  Jess

[UMD]

Had an '06 in the past.  These days I shoot better with smaller caliber deer rifles, plain and simple.  Happy with a 257 BLR, an XS7 in 7mm-08, and a 336 in 30-30. 

Deer can't tell anyway - dead is dead. 

[yellowtail3]

Why don't I own a 30-06?

Well, the one I did own was stolen back in '91
I've got a Marlin in 30-30 which is sufficient. When I start getting lots of 200+ yard shots, then maybe I'll get another .270 ... or 30-06.