why don't you own a 30-06?

[scootrd]

I do think it is the most efficient caliber there is. I can get 30-06 cases for 5 bucks per 100 bag at the gun range. Faster burning powder = less powder burned. Bullets are everywhere.

Would someone please define efficient ?.
Formal definition  = Achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense.

If by efficient one means less powder to energy ratios, I respectfully disagree. There are a lot more efficient cartridges out there than an '06. If by efficient you include Recoil into your definition again I respectfully disagree. Their are lot of cartridges out there that Kill deer Just as dead with Less recoil. If by efficient one means cost , well I suppose cost should play a factor in what is determined efficient. If by efficient one means application, I would tend to think a lot of variables come into play on what the term Cartridge efficiency would really mean, length of barrel , types of powder , weight of Bullet , terrain where one hunts,  etc,etc.. 

I too own a '06  and I enjoyed hunting with it over the years, However my 7mm-08 does everything my '06 could ever do hunting whitetails in the terrain I hunt in but does so much more efficiently using less powder to energy ratios and less recoil energy and recoil velocity than .270 308, or 30-06. From a cost perspective ( I do not reload ) a box of hornady 139gr SST at 2950 fps runs aprox 27.00, a box of Hornady 30-06 Springfield, SST, 150 GR, 2910 fps, 25.00. my 7MM-08 has better BC and equals the 308 and 30-06 in trajectory (actually slightly better). It's trajectory is just a tad less flat than a .270. It surpasses the 308 and 30-06 in knock down power and bullet drop out past 300 yards. Inside 300 yards it's so negligible with bullets of comparable weight and composition the deer don't know the difference.

So for me the 7mm-08 is a much more efficient cartridge than the 30-06.

Personally I think some writer came up with the term Cartridge efficiency to complete a monthly column.
Every cartridge probably has an inherent sweet spot  as well as a point of diminishing return,  and those who hand load can probably leverage it best. With the 06 it may be efficiency come in with it's use of heavier rounds on larger game. As for me and whitetails using box ammo , the '06 will remain above the mantle as I see it as overkill for such thin skinned animals, and the 7mm-08 suits me best where I hunt. It's a perfect match - JMHO


 
 

[StrawHat]

I do not have a 30-06 because I prefer to use cartridges older than that.  Actually, when I want to use a small bore, I borrow a 30-06.

[MS10point]

After reading this ,I went out and got one this week. Not really, but I did buy my first 30-06 on Thursday. A Tikka T3 Superlite. I own a 7mm-08, .243, .270,.280,.35 Whelen and now a 30-06. While it won't do anything that my others won't do, I like to think of it as my "79 Ford truck" of rifles. It will be a lightweight, do-all everyday deer rifle. I also love the wide array, and availability of ammo.

[txpitdog]

I never got into the 30-06, b/c it is about as interesting as diet vanilla ice cream.  I'm lefthanded, and in the pre-GunBroker days, finding a lefty bolt action rifle that isn't equally bland was no easy task either.  I eventually gravitated to lever actions, pump actions, and single shots.  Now that I think about it, many of my caliber choices have been deliberately anti 30-06.  First the 45-70, because it has freight train type impact without damaging meat (like I assumed the 06 would do), then the 35 Whelen b/c 35cal is just better than some chump 30cal, then 300win mag for distance, then kinda surprisingly 308 for lower recoil and mass ammo availability.  I just sorta danced all around the '06 while intentionally avoiding it.

Then about 2 months ago, I stumbled across a NIB lefty Hawkeye 30-06 in target grey with a laminated stock. At the time I wished it would have been in 308 to go along with the same ammo as my AR10 and Rem 7600 308, but I loved the unique finish and rifle stock and bought it in spite of the '06 caliber. Wouldn't you know it, I sighted it in and killed a deer and a hog with it the same weekend.  After shooting my 45-70, 300win mag, and 458 Lott, the 30-06 has almost no noticeable recoil...and the 150gr Corelokt went lengthwise through my deer, breaking the front and back leg.

I fully intend to keep cycling through my various rifles in hunting, but I now see why the bolt action and 30-06 are so popular.  And with much less free time to reload and experiment with all my different rifles (3 young'ns under the age of 5), the '06 Hawkeye will be my go-to rifle...well, it and the 7600 and the 1895GS. 

[spitpatch]

"I now hunt with a mod seven 7mm-08 22" barrel , The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06, My mod 7 is lightweight, a pleasure to carry, pleasure to shoot , provides less kick , and a superb Deerslayer and much better suited for the terrain I hunt." 

Is this information on the 7mm-08 true or opinion?

[scootrd]

"I now hunt with a mod seven 7mm-08 22" barrel , The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06, My mod 7 is lightweight, a pleasure to carry, pleasure to shoot , provides less kick , and a superb Deerslayer and much better suited for the terrain I hunt." 

Is this information on the 7mm-08 true or opinion?

True

[Casull]

The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06

 
 
The laws of physics would say that ain't possible. 

[cwlongshot]

The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06

 
 
The laws of physics would say that ain't possible.

Agreed, as much as I like and respect what the Lil 7MM can do, its NOT the equal in power to the '06.    It IS a more efficient use of the power it has and it IS done at less recoil than the '06.
 
You also dont mention a bullet weight.. so compare say the 150G in the '06 to the 140 in the 7mm.
 
The '06 will do high 2800 to 2900fps where the 7MM is high 2700 to 2800fps. (Rem, that's with a 10 gr lighter bullet.) I am not talking reloads here as we all can get 300 from a 150 in the '06 pretty easily while the Lil 7mm is only just pushed into the high 2800fps range.
 
It IS a great little cartridge that does everything a whitetail deer hunter would likely ever encounter.

CW

[nomosendero]

The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06

 
 
The laws of physics would say that ain't possible.

Agreed, as much as I like and respect what the lil 7MM can do, its NOT the equal in power to the '06.    It IS a more efficient use of the power it has and it IS done at less recoil than the '06.
 
You also dont mention a bullet weight.. so compair say the 150G in the '06 to the 140 in the 7mm.
 
The '06 will do high 2800 to 2900fps where the 7MM is high 2700 to 2800fps. (Rem, thats with a 10 gr lighter bullet.) I am not talking reloads here as we all can get 300 from a 150 in the '06 pretty easily while the lil 7mm is only just pushed into the high 2800fps range.
 
It IS a great little cartriage that does everything a whitetail deer hunter would likely ever encounter.
CW
 
CW

Yea, I saw that too, only thing right was recoil. At the least the comparison should have been 280-vs-30-06. That would have made the "flatter shooting" point at least worth debating, but not energy so much with equal pressure handloads.

[parkergunshop]

You wrote:

• 
• To Split,
   Re: why don't you own a 30-06?« Reply #184 on: Yesterday at 09:56:41 PM »
  • Quote
  "I now hunt with a mod seven 7mm-08 22" barrel , The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06, My mod 7 is lightweight, a pleasure to carry, pleasure to shoot , provides less kick , and a superb Deerslayer and much better suited for the terrain I hunt." 
  
  Is this information on the 7mm-08 true or opinion? From Parkergunshop,   this information is untrue it defies the basic laws of physics which the writer obviously never took in school."equal and opposite reactions"   Muzzle Energy vs Recoil is not exempt from the law of physics.   The 7mm/08 is a fine round but not equal to the 30-06 or .280 Remington just as it's parent the .308 Winchester is not equal to the 30-06.

[yellowtail3]

[size=78%]The 7mm/08 is a fine round but not equal to the 30-06 or .280 Remington just as it's parent the .308 Winchester is not equal to the 30-06.[/size]

well... for some purposes they're equal, or equal as can be determined by field result... don't you think? Or not?

[RevJim]

 Well, I up and sold my sweet shooting Model 700 CDL in 30.06. I found that I never took it hunting in the five years I've owned it. In fact, the last time I used a 30.06 was back in the mid '90's. I thinned down the herd. While I could have sold all the others and made the 30.06 a doitall ( and do it well) I have found my .35 Whelen AI to be a truly all arounder; with fireforming loads I can shoot little deer or big deer/elk; with my full bore loads I've used it in South Africa. I just picked up a new ruger African Hawkeye in 9.3x62 just for grins. I will be using my 7mm RUM (which was a gift, couldn't sell it if I wanted to) this friday on a cow elk hunt, and my fast twist Shilen barreled 22-250 Ackley Improved works swell on varmints to deer/antelope/exotics. That's it for me...well...maybe, ha.

[nomosendero]

[size=78%]The 7mm/08 is a fine round but not equal to the 30-06 or .280 Remington just as it's parent the .308 Winchester is not equal to the 30-06.[/size]

well... for some purposes they're equal, or equal as can be determined by field result... don't you think? Or not?

Not. Not in the context of the statement, which was specifically comparing performance between the rounds.
 
Purpose, well any cartridge may serve a "purpose" at hand, whether it's killing a Coyote, Deer, Moose whatever. Some purpose, like for Coyote, the 223 at 50 yds. would be "equal" in THAT result, so really no relevance here. 

[scootrd]

7mm-08 is a more efficient cartridge
 

 Cartridge (Wb@MV)      Recoil energy   Recoil velocity
   --------------------   -------------   ---------------
   7mm-08 (140 at 2860)   12.6            10.1
   .30-06   (150 at 2910) 17.6              11.9

consider this: for a bullet that's 7% heavier traveling 2% faster the 30-06 has a recoil
energy 40% greater. The 7mm-08 trajectory is also a tad flatter. I would be interested
in knowing what hand loaders can accomplish with this great cartridge.

   Cartridge Information
   Cartridge  Type               Ballistic Coefficient
   ---------- ------------------ ---------------------
   7mm-08 140 AccuTip™ Boat Tail        0.486
   .30-06   150 AccuTip™ Boat Tail        0.415

   Velocity (ft/sec)
   Cartridge   Muzzle  100    200    300    400    500
   ----------  ------  ----   ----   ----   ----   ----
   7mm-08 140  2860    2670   2489   2314   2146   1986
   .30-06   150  2910    2686   2473   2270   2077   1893

   Energy (ft-lbs)
   Cartridge   Muzzle  100    200    300    400    500
   ----------  ------  ----   ----   ----   ----   ----
   7mm-08 140  2542    2216   1925   1664   1432   1225
   .30-06   150  2820    2403   2037   1716   1436   1193

   Long-Range Trajectory
   Cartridge   100  150  200    250   300   400    500
   ----------  ---  ---  ----  ----  ----  -----  -----
   7mm-08 140  1.7  1.5  zero  -2.9  -7.3  -21.1  -42.5
   .30-06   150  1.7  1.5  zero  -2.9  -7.4  -21.5  -43.7

The 7mm-08, has a higher BC, retains velocity and energy longer. The .30-06 starts out 50 ft/sec faster, at 200 yards or so the 7mm-08 starts to overtake it. The heavier 150 grain .30-06 starts out with roughly 300 ft-lbs more energy but out at 400 yards they pack approx same punch. And the long-range trajectory of the two rounds is virtually identical.

7mm-08 More efficient , Does more or equal with less.

 -  JMHO

[nomosendero]

7mm-08 is a more efficient cartridge
 

 Cartridge (Wb@MV)      Recoil energy   Recoil velocity
   --------------------   -------------   ---------------
   7mm-08 (140 at 2860)   12.6            10.1
   .30-06   (150 at 2910) 17.6              11.9

consider this: for a bullet that's 7% heavier traveling 2% faster the 30-06 has a recoil
energy 40% greater. The 7mm-08 trajectory is also a tad flatter. I would be interested
in knowing what hand loaders can accomplish with this great cartridge.

   Cartridge Information
   Cartridge  Type               Ballistic Coefficient
   ---------- ------------------ ---------------------
   7mm-08 140 AccuTip™ Boat Tail        0.486
   .30-06   150 AccuTip™ Boat Tail        0.415

   Velocity (ft/sec)
   Cartridge   Muzzle  100    200    300    400    500
   ----------  ------  ----   ----   ----   ----   ----
   7mm-08 140  2860    2670   2489   2314   2146   1986
   .30-06   150  2910    2686   2473   2270   2077   1893

   Energy (ft-lbs)
   Cartridge   Muzzle  100    200    300    400    500
   ----------  ------  ----   ----   ----   ----   ----
   7mm-08 140  2542    2216   1925   1664   1432   1225
   .30-06   150  2820    2403   2037   1716   1436   1193

   Long-Range Trajectory
   Cartridge   100  150  200    250   300   400    500
   ----------  ---  ---  ----  ----  ----  -----  -----
   7mm-08 140  1.7  1.5  zero  -2.9  -7.3  -21.1  -42.5
   .30-06   150  1.7  1.5  zero  -2.9  -7.4  -21.5  -43.7

The 7mm-08, has a higher BC, retains velocity and energy longer. The .30-06 starts out 50 ft/sec faster, at 200 yards or so the 7mm-08 starts to overtake it. The heavier 150 grain .30-06 starts out with roughly 300 ft-lbs more energy but out at 400 yards they pack approx same punch. And the long-range trajectory of the two rounds is virtually identical.

7mm-08 More efficient , Does more or equal with less.

 -  JMHO

Many publications have provided such reports with a slight slant to bring 2 rounds a little closer than they should be.
O' Conner did it for years trying to show the gap between his beloved 270 & the 7RM to be smaller than it really is.
 
A 7mm 140 BC & a 30 cal. 165 BC are quite comparable actually & the ones logically compared.
 
First of all, both the 7-08 & 30-06 can be loaded to higher velocities than stated, but even more so for the 30-06. It is very easy to load the 150 to 3,000fps, Nosler shows 3056, but most won't do that. Actually, you can easily get 2900fps with the more steamlined 165 in the 30-06, Nosler says 3000, again don't count on that.
Anyone who is really trying to make a valid comparison would compare the 140 vs 165.
The 30-06 hits a good deal harder & a wee bit flatter, but not enough to get in an uproar about.
 
As far as efficient, who cares really & that was not the originall comparison. The 30-30 is more efficient than both with spitzers in terms of powder used for performance & others are more efficient than that. Sundra used to dwell on that & then use a less efficient cartridge, as we all do.
 
No flyes on the 7-08 & it's one of the best Deer rounds ever made, but send me on a trophy Elk, Moose or Bear hunt & between those 2 I would see no need to even talk about it. A 200 gr. Nosler Partition anyone?

[Ladobe]

Easy answer... because I own a 270 Winchester instead.

[nomosendero]

Easy answer... because I own a 270 Winchester instead.

I have one too & I use it some. I don't use 30-06 much right now, a 300WM much more often,but the '06 is a good round indeed!

[LONGTOM]

I own at least 5 of them in different brands and styles but don't use any of them.
Reasons, I have never hunted anything that my 270 couldn't handle.
If I would need something bigger, than I have my 45-70s.
Just never really cared for the caliber, only because I never really used one or saw the need to use one.
 
 
 
LONGTOM
 

[1911crazy]

The 30-06 was copied from the 7mm mauser one of the flattest shooting calibers there is.  Being a very, very flat shooting caliber would this make the 7mm mauser round more accurate being a very flat shooter with a little less in power over the old famous '06??  So the bottomline is were trading off power for accuracy?
I own 3 or 4, 30-06's and probably 5 or 6, 7mm mausers so i'm not saying i do not have one. The 30-06 is still an important rifle in my fock of rifles.
The 7mm/08,  the 284win,  the 280rem,  7mm rem mag, and the 7mm mauser all can us the same bullets when reloading.  For some reason the gun designers just can't let the 7mm round go.
I been hunting with the 30-06 from 1973 to now.  But i replaced my 06 with a 338wm. at the top of the heap in power.  I still have my orginal 1972  mossberg $172 with scope/mounts with me. I still take it on every hunting trip too my son uses it now.

[nomosendero]

"trading off power for accuracy", don't get that one. I figure I'm not since the best long range shooter in my safe is a 300 Sendero. 

[Rock Home Isle]

Easy answer... because I own a 270 Winchester instead.

I inhereted the .30-06...I love the .270 
 
Nice thread resurrection by the way.

[cwlongshot]

Never quite seen the virtues of a 270...
 
The 7MM Express was a up n comer when I was growing up. I fancied a Remington BDL so chambered...  It was nto until much later I got one. Later still I built a 1909 Argentine Mauser in 280 with a Shillen barrel, Timney trigger and Fajen stock... She is a goof shooter.
 
CW

[yellowtail3]

why don't you own a 30-06?

(shrug) I've got a 30-30, which seems to work pretty well. I don't think I'll kill any more deer with a 30-06, so I don't have one. Plus, those things are loud...

[KAYR1]

The 30-06 is a great round. Rich history, versatile, military and hunting around the world, adn probably what I'd own if I could own only one. That said, I have some 30 rifles in various calibers and not one in 30-06. I have everyhing around in from 30-30, .308, .300 WSM, .300 Weatherby, etc. they all do everything that I need it for. For hunting, I dont need one, but if  ever found a nice Garand.......

[RevJim]

 Well, after selling my 700 CDL '06 an the little Kimber 7mm08, I got to really thinking about how I had created quite a gap between my 22-250 Ackley and my .35 Whelen Ackley. I don't consider my 22-250 Ackley anywhere near being an "all around" deer rifle, though I have used .22 centerfires alot; and the Whelen is a tad much for smaller antelope,etc, though useful, but neither rifle had useful factory ammo available just anywhere. Reason I had sold that neat little Kimber 84M in 7mm08? It was just too fancy for wet weather,etc for me. I had hunted with it and the Whelen ( which is set up for wet weather) almost exclusively in the past 5 yrs.( Our deer/elk seasons can have rain/snow mixed) I even thought about having my 22-250 re-barreled (Mod 7) to .260 or 6.5/08 Improved; 7mm Rem SAUM, 6.5/284,(I've owned them all but the 6.5/08 Imp and the 7mm SAUM) but I just don't have the time to mess with more fireforming,etc, and another barrel, die set up, components, I'm up around $500-$700 easy, if not more. Not practical. No, I realized I wanted to have another "all around deer/antelop/elk rifle", with factory ammo available. So, I got to craving another 30.06!
  Ha. I was looking around, and what I wanted was something light, like that little Kimber, but not as fancy, nor as fancy as my 700 CDL '06 was. I found one today in the used guns at a local gunshop. It's a Model 700 Mountain Rifle in 30.06; not a beater, but used enough to not worry about scratches,etc. It was $200 cheaper than the ones I saw on Gunbroker! I'll just clean it up, maybe have it pillar bedded, trigger adjusted, or replaced. Add my Leupold 2.5x8 on it and I'm in the berries again! I've had  Mountain Rifles back in '92 in .280 Remington, and later one in .270. But wildcatting and trades got them, ha. I like them alot, a bit trimmer and lighter so they are handier than a regular 700 CDL even. Anyhow, I've had a 30.06 of one kind or another since my first one at 16, 43 yrs now. I understand how "everybody has one", and the reluctance to own one, but I've shot some nice animals with the ol '06, and it still impresses me. So now, I'm set; 22-250 AI, 30.06, 35 whelen AI, 9.3x62mm, and a 7mm RUM ( plus a .22 magnum) that's my rifles now. I think I have "the spread" covered,ha 
 

[nomosendero]

Well, after selling my 700 CDL '06 an the little Kimber 7mm08, I got to really thinking about how I had created quite a gap between my 22-250 Ackley and my .35 Whelen Ackley. I don't consider my 22-250 Ackley anywhere near being an "all around" deer rifle, though I have used .22 centerfires alot; and the Whelen is a tad much for smaller antelope,etc, though useful, but neither rifle had useful factory ammo available just anywhere. Reason I had sold that neat little Kimber 84M in 7mm08? It was just too fancy for wet weather,etc for me. I had hunted with it and the Whelen ( which is set up for wet weather) almost exclusively in the past 5 yrs.( Our deer/elk seasons can have rain/snow mixed) I even thought about having my 22-250 re-barreled (Mod 7) to .260 or 6.5/08 Improved; 7mm Rem SAUM, 6.5/284,(I've owned them all but the 6.5/08 Imp and the 7mm SAUM) but I just don't have the time to mess with more fireforming,etc, and another barrel, die set up, components, I'm up around $500-$700 easy, if not more. Not practical. No, I realized I wanted to have another "all around deer/antelop/elk rifle", with factory ammo available. So, I got to craving another 30.06!
  Ha. I was looking around, and what I wanted was something light, like that little Kimber, but not as fancy, nor as fancy as my 700 CDL '06 was. I found one today in the used guns at a local gunshop. It's a Model 700 Mountain Rifle in 30.06; not a beater, but used enough to not worry about scratches,etc. It was $200 cheaper than the ones I saw on Gunbroker! I'll just clean it up, maybe have it pillar bedded, trigger adjusted, or replaced. Add my Leupold 2.5x8 on it and I'm in the berries again! I've had  Mountain Rifles back in '92 in .280 Remington, and later one in .270. But wildcatting and trades got them, ha. I like them alot, a bit trimmer and lighter so they are handier than a regular 700 CDL even. Anyhow, I've had a 30.06 of one kind or another since my first one at 16, 43 yrs now. I understand how "everybody has one", and the reluctance to own one, but I've shot some nice animals with the ol '06, and it still impresses me. So now, I'm set; 22-250 AI, 30.06, 35 whelen AI, 9.3x62mm, and a 7mm RUM ( plus a .22 magnum) that's my rifles now. I think I have "the spread" covered,ha

Sir, I think you do have it covered! 

[S.S.]

Because I have rifles in superior chamberings for what I need.   7.92x57......don't get me wrong, the '06 is a fine cartridge but not the be all end all that many make it out to be. I have actually seen more deer lost to this cartridge than any other.

[Buckmaster 30-30]

I do have an '06 but I dont think it has even had 10 rounds shot through it. My Savage 270 does everything I need it to do since the biggest thing I hunt is deer and wild hogs. The only thing I dont hunt with the 270 is canadian black bear when I get the chance to go , I use my Ultra slug hunter for that but Im sure the 270 would do the job.

[Muddly]

Didnt have alot of money when I went shopping for a breech loader last November. The Savage 111 I bought is a .270 WCF. Never had one. Never wanted one, but the price was right( $ 230) so I decided to give it a whirl and if I didn't like it I could swap the tube for an '06. No need. The 270 is accurate, flat shooting and is  Death Her Bad Self on deer. Of course, so is the '06. But i do like getting the ballistics and penetrating ability of 165 - 180 gr 30 caliber bullets with lighter ones( 130 and 150 gr respectively look at the sectional densities of a 165gr 30 cal and compare it to a 130 gr .270 and do the same for the 180gr 30 and the 150gr 270...) that recoil ( slightly) less.Plus, you can drive the 270 bullets faster than you can their ballistic equivelent with an '06. Gotta go to a mag to do that.

[saddlebum]

Because I have rifles in superior chamberings for what I need.   7.92x57......don't get me wrong, the '06 is a fine cartridge but not the be all end all that many make it out to be. I have actually seen more deer lost to this cartridge than any other.

You must know alot of really poor hunters....................