gah!! bad Crown!

[Kal52]

man, I tell ya  just when ya thing things are going good, a fat kid comes and steals your cake!

So I was getting all my stuff ready for this weekend, just a little pre dove opener clean up at the shack and a bit of shooting.
well I decided to go ahead and bore site my new shorties, and wouldnt you know it, the target on the bore siter is way off!

first thing i think is maybe The rings are off, so I take off the scope base and rings, re center the cross hairs (mirror trick)
and then reinstall, still way off!

Do the same thing, only with a different scope, base and rings from a PROVEN shooter, same dang thing!
then I notice, hey when I put it on the factory guns the target is centered,  then it hits me, crown is crap, and now that I really look at it, its super crap! guess I was just too excited at the smith to really really give it a going over, too trusting I guess!

so tomarrow he is going to get a call he wont want, and he is going to re-do BOTH of them, the other isnt perfect but not horrible, but man is he gonna get it!!!!

sorry just had to vent!

Dave

[revbc]

Or some fine grinding compound and the ole ball bearing trick   But if you paid to have it right, it ought to be right!

[Kal52]

nah, hes gonna redo it, I paid good money for what should be a very simple job for a smith, with a lathe, and all the other goodies that Gander MTN gives em to work with.  Not only that I would probably make a bad thing worse 

The 30-30 is ok, maybe im just being picky since im all fired up. It did fine on the bore sighter, once i cool down ill be fine, heck maybe the hornet will shoot like a champ, who knows, but i doubt it.  

My regular smith, wont cut and crown them because they dont fit his lathe all that well, and he is straight forward about it, I wonder if this fellas lathe doesnt work so well either

Dave

[PawPaw]

I've never crowned a muzzle, but I've known guys that have, using the brass screw and valve compound trick.

However, if I were in the business, I'd probably own one of these.  It's a hand tool and looks rather straight-forward.  Why chuck it in a lathe if you don't have to?  Or am I missing something?

[Airsporter]

Or am I missing something?

No, your not missing anything.  If a gunsmith doesn't have a lathe large enough for barrel work, then they should have the hand tools - at least a simple 90 degree cutter with pilots for different bore sizes (easy to make your own brass pilots).

[Kal52]

my normal smiths lathe wont cut the LUGGED barrels short enough for what I want to do since he had to put them in differnent, only down to 19-20 inches he said, which is why he didnt do it, that and he is somewhat odd when it comes to guns he will or will not work on for some reason or another. he is kind of a dink.

Called this fella this morning, cooled down so I was not rude. Basically its going in on tuesday, and I better have it by thursday when I head out aagain.

Lessons learned, Ill be getting some of the crowning tools here when I can afford to, I just may be able to do a better job than this fella, and I forsee a shory .410 coon smasher in the works (depending on how that new 410 defense ammo pans out)
 
so all is good for now, and if this is the worst thing I have to deal with Im counting myself a lucky boy today!
Dave

[Dinny]

I think Gander Mtn doesn't pay all that well and they attract those gunsmithing students who finished closer to last in their class.   As you can tell, I have had problems with them too.

Good luck, I hope it's better next time.

Thanks, Dinny

[gcrank1]

So, why would he put it in the lathe, after padding the jaws not to marr your bluing, true it up, part it, crown and touchup blue when he can slap it into the benchvise and hacksaw it off, file and chamfer by hand in less time? Because, as I've said before," not everbody who hangs out a shingle saying 'gunsmith' is one".
May I suggest to all (as this seems to be a recurring theme), when you take a gun into a 'smith for work, ask them just how they intend to do your job. You dont need to know and understand every step, but you should be satisfied that what you are told sounds reasonable given the complexity, or simplicity, of the project.
FWIW, you could have done the hacksaw job (and if careful, done it pretty square) and deburred/chamfered it yourself, in less than an hour, with time out between steps for coffee.

[quickdtoo]

+1 on doing it yourself, I've done a few smooth bores in the past, but hadn't done a rifle yet, did one recently for a member when I converted his ejector barrel to an extractor, cut it off as square as I could with a hack saw, then trued it up with a file, then used a PTG Interchangeable Pilot Muzzle Crown Tool to crown it, then used combinations of wet/dry sand paper and finally a leather pad and flitz to put a fine finish on it, the results weren't perfect, but very acceptable and the owner says it shoots great.

Tim

[gcrank1]

Note that the pictured 'heavily recessed' target counterbore isnt neccessary, but does help 'protect' the critical crown from impact damage. My original Win. '85s were very flat with only the mildest edge break, yet those rifles were well known for their accuracy. Do one like that and you can always take off more, or counterbore as the opportunity arrises.
(its easier to take metal off than put it back on)

[quickdtoo]

All H&Rs come with a target crown from the factory. 

Tim

[goofyoldfart]

did a friends 30-30 and 12 ga. barrel for him. Did it on the kitchen table using C-clamps and leathe r padding with a hacksaw then trued it up with a machinest square and feeler gauges and file. used a bolt and and 1000 grit compound. he says that it does better now than ever.
Nothing hard about it for me--I was an "A" rate precision millwright for 30 years and have done many hand jobs. Have a Blessed Day.


ETA: Didn't proof read the post Let me clarify that statement---"I have done MANY JOBS BY HAND" where are my brains. Sometimers strikes again.

[gcrank1]

Yep, basic start for a machinist......if you cant run a file (and hacksaw) & square you cant run machines. Thats why I 'question' the poor job originally posted. Maybe the 'gunsmith' had a trainee do the job, if so, he needed more explicit directions,supervision and inspection before letting it out.
BTW, I do not approve of letting trainees work on my equipment, especially if Im paying gunsmithing prices!
Guess if I took something in to get worked on I might also ask who was actually going to do the job so there would be some accountability.
But, thats just me.......

[gendoc]

Or some fine grinding compound and the ole ball bearing trick  

thatsa what i'm talk'n bout !!!

[trotterlg]

What does the crown have to do with which way the bore and scope are pointing?  Larry

[Sourdough]

The first Lathe job I ever did back when I was a teen was putting a crown on a .22RF.  From that point when ever he had a crown job come in he let me do it.  He sure taught me a lot about using machinery.  

Redid a crown a few years back using my Shop Smith.  Set up for horizontal Boring, Clamped the barrel to the table, and the cutter in the jaws.  The hard part was getting everything centered and straight.  First try I messed it up, but the second try got it right.  Once I had finished with the cutter the polishing was easy.  

For two years we did not have a gunsmith in Fairbanks that I trusted to do anything.  So when I rolled a wheeler and damaged the end of the barrel I decided to give it a try myself.  Nothing to lose, and it worked.  Gun shoots good so I have not bothered to have it redone.  Leave well enough alone is my motto.

[Kal52]

thanks for all the replies, its gonna get fixed by him, or me. either way took it out and shot it this weekend.

I didnt have time to "sight it in", I got it good enough to eliminate one of our farmyard pests from 120, I think itll be a keeper.

the 30-30 shot really nice too, I got it to minute of small rock at 100ish and will tune it in when I have more time, I just wanted to burn through some ammo and get em dirty!

as for the scope/bore deal, My bore sighter is the magnetic type you place on the muzzel, if its off the target shows up way to the right or to the left, due to it being at an angle and not square.

thanks again,

Dave