Using a knife foe self defense

[zeke08]

I have looked and not found 1 article on this and was wondering what if any input people had on this topic. If you carry a knife for self defense what if any training would you want and what type of knife? folder, fixed blade what length? I am a student of Kahli which is stick, knife, open hand fighting. Look at both urban and rural environments where you may find yourself fighting to defend a grubstake or family member what would you want if all you had was a knife!

[blind ear]

A bayonet,- - - affixed.     Just kidding. I'm too old and slow. Just try to avoid as best as I can. eddiegjr

[Bigeasy]

Unless you are having a particularly lucky day, no matter how good you think you are with a knife, you will get cut if you ever decide to participate in a knife fight with a determined opponent.  You'll share blood as well, so what ever funky things he has, you do to.  A firearm is so far and away a better defensive tool, that considering a knife in that role against an armed adversary is at best a last ditch option when you cant run.

Few agencies, other then the military, teach offensive tactics with a blade.  Most teach defensive tactics against a blade.  Big difference.

Larry

[AtlLaw]

I like knives... I'm a firm believer in having one, around 8 inch fixed blade, secure non-slip grip, easily accessable whenever going into armed combat situations.  But I concur, it is a last ditch weapon; used only when there is no other recourse... including flight!  You can take what Larry says to the bank! DAMHIK!   

no matter how good you think you are with a knife, you will get cut if you ever decide to participate in a knife fight with a determined opponent. ... a knife in that role against an armed adversary is at best a last ditch option when you cant run.

Fortunately there aren't many "armed combat situations" going around nowadays so I just carry a very small folder... 

[Savage .250]

The up close and personal approach doesn`t appeal to me.   

[Old Syko]

The old joke about taking a kinfe to a gun fight isn't really a joke but a fact.  I don't care what kind of training you have, if you show up with nothing but a knife, coming out ahead is all but inpossible.  My son who is well trained in MMA, and very good with both his abilities and the use of weapons still carries more than one firearm just like hes dad taught him.  If a knife is all you ended up with, your defensive planning abilities suck.

[Graybeard]

I was in a few knife fights in my earlier days (teen years to early 20s). Fortunately I never met a really trained knife fighting opponent and I prevailed each time having to draw blood only once or twice the other times the oppoent backed down without any blood being drawn.

As soon as I was old enough to get a concealed carry permit I did so and mostly have been armed with a handgun since. I've never needed to use it on anyone and hope I never do.

If tho I were going to be in a situation where a knife was all I was able to have then I'd want a fixed blade razor sharp knife made for the purpose of fighting. I have a Cold Steel Recon Tanto which fits that bill and the holster has multiple ways to wear it from on a belt at side or small of back to hanging from around your neck or attached to your chest.

I hope I never again find myself in a knife fight as these days I'm too old and slow and out of shape for such but if I did that Tanto would be what I'd want in my hands I think.

Long years ago I found myself on a trip via plane and wasn't able to legally carry a handgun on the plane or once there as it was a city that was not gun friendly. I looked over what I had and chose a Shrade Poppa Bear folding knife and put it in my checked luggage (legal at the time) and carried it around with me when I had to be in places I really didn't wanna be in. Thankfully nothing happened that required the use of it but it was a formidable weapon given time to put it into action. Not up to the standard of my Tanto but I didn't own it back then either.

My advice is never take a knife to a gun fight and always have a gun to use in case someone else tries to attack you with a knife. However at really close range a person who truly knows what they are doing with a knife will get to you and cut you badly even if you have a handgun and shoot them. Someone on the other hand who isn't properly trained in knife use might not cut you before you stop them with your handgun.

[kyelkhunter3006]

There are several training sites for law enforcement that state as a fact, if you engage someone with a knife at "combat" range (7 yards) with a firearm, you WILL get cut or stabbed even if you hit them in a vital area, if they want to get you.

There are areas where you can't carry a handgun, even with a CDWP.  In KY, you CAN have a knife in those areas.  After my permit shows up, I'll cover as many bases as I can..  gun and knife for me.

[schoolmaster]

It is odd that this topic has come up at this time. I have spent a few hours researching survival knives and decided to order a SOG Seal Pup Elite for my primary survival knife. I suppose it could be used for self defense rather than shopping wood, skinning animals, cutting para cord etc.

[zeke08]

I agree 100% about bringing a knife to a gun fight not healthy for the Knife man. I have also carried either on the job or buy carry permit for almost 20yrs and I almost always have at least 1 gun on me but there are times or places where you can not and just wondered what everyone's opinion was on knife fighting. Yes KY you are right we get stats every year and 7yds and in your gonna get cut if they are motivated.

[kyelkhunter3006]

The way I see it, if it's that bad and I'm protecting my family and friends, I'm going to do everything I can. I'm willing to make the ultimate sacrifice but you can be damn sure that I'm going to take the aggressor with me on the trip.  I'd rather have a knife and go out fighting than be in a position where I don't have ANY weapon.

[mechanic]

Two major rules.

1.)  Diseregard all the stuff you've seen "on screen".  You don't approach with the knife blade forward like you're about to slice cheese.  A quicker or stronger opponent will turn it back on you.  Carry  the knife with the blade to the right if you're right handed, and with the cutting edge forward.  This makes if more difficult for it to turn back.

2.)  A short knife, is not a good stabbing weapon.  A 4" or less blade will not likely reach vitals.  It is a good cutting weapon...target face and neck.

A bonus rule:  Never fight with a knife if you can run, or can find a 2x4, a rock, anything else.  It is a weapon of last resort....

[zoner]

i did some research on knife fighting and learned a couple things....1. If you get into a knife fight win or lose you're likely get cut. 2. If you go up against someone who has real training in fighting with edged weapons and you have no training,you don't stand a chance....Mike

[cbl51]

I remember reading an account in an old early 1800's news paper from New orleans, about a knife fight between a Frenchman and a Spaniard. The spaniard got his blade into the frenchman's chest and dropped him, the frenchman dyin in a few minutes. But  the frenchman got his blade into the spaniards stomach before he went down, and the spaniard lived for a couple of hours. Since he outlived the frenchman, he was declared a winner.

Having said that, when I was a young man, I was delusional enough that I carried a knife for a defense tool, then as I got older, I got smart. After about age 35, I started to carry a nice stout Irish blackthorn stick, and I got into collecting stout rustic walking sticks. Made a few of local hornbeam with root knob handles like a blackthorn. When people asked why the 'cane', I told them an old service injury was acting up. After a while, people didn't even seem to notice the stick anymore, it became part of my persona. Thus even in airports and on vacation like cruise ships with tight TSA type security at the gangplank at ports of call, I have a nice stout 35 inch legth of blackthorn, or hornbeam/ironwood, or oak right there already in my hand. It works well with the old pugil stick moves and riot training we had in the army. It's  been 30 years since I carried a knife for a weapon, even though I love knives, and collect some. To me, a knife is not even a last resort weapon, if there is a chair, pool que, tree branch, cane, Table leg, fire extiguiser, beer pitcher, hiking staff, ski pole, leather belt with nice heavy buckle, or SOMETHING ELSE at hand.

I ain't gittin in no knife fights.

But I'll always have a nice Case CV pocket knife or two on me for cutting jobs.

[kyelkhunter3006]

i did some research on knife fighting and learned a couple things....1. If you get into a knife fight win or lose you're likely get cut. 2. If you go up against someone who has real training in fighting with edged weapons and you have no training,you don't stand a chance....Mike

If you go up against anyone who's had ANY sort of real fighting training (knife, gun, hand) and you haven't, you don't really have a chance.

[S.S.]

fighting with edged weapons is not for the timid.
I carry a scar in my right chest from being stabbed.
This is a fight that does not end fast either. I do still
carry a knife though...Everywhere. Even being
well trained you are still gonna get cut

[hillbill]

i wss stabbed in a fight with 6 guys in my own house, i was yung and dumb, thought they would approach it as gentlemen as i did with only fists.i was wrong.in those days the odds didnt seem so bad considering who they were and how big i was and what kind of shape i was in then. of course i was the only gentleman in the room at that time.once things were not going their way they started stabbing me.id have to say i really would of enjoyed carrying some kind of a belt knife or even a folder.to this day i still carry a really sharp folder in my back pocket anytime i enter unfamilair circumstances.about 90 percent of people that pull a gun on yu do not really want to kill yu. if yu can git within arms length of them, yu can gut them like a fish.its that 10 percent that will git ya!!! lol

[blind ear]

Bayonet - - - - affixed, not kidding. 

[Hooker]

It was Rex Applegate that wrote the first rule of knife fighting was to run unless you are willing to get cut.
Having been in two knife fights one against 3 assailants I know he was right. An attacker does not need to be skillful to score a cut on you.
A knife is a last ditch defensive weapon period. Stopping a serious attacker with a knife, takes a whole lot cutting on your part and whole lot of bleeding on his part unless you are really lucky.
I carry a Gerber Guardian Backup it conceals well and can be carried around the neck on the belt or boot. it can also be carried handle up or down and horizontally. It's a bit small but it is only back up for much more efficient weapons.


Pat
 

[Victor3]

To me, a knife is not even a last resort weapon, if there is a chair, pool que, tree branch, cane, Table leg, fire extiguiser, beer pitcher, hiking staff, ski pole, leather belt with nice heavy buckle, or SOMETHING ELSE at hand.

I ain't gittin in no knife fights.

 I ride my bicycle quite a bit, often late at night in deserted areas. My "something else" is a 20" long tire pump clipped to the frame. I've noticed that it doesn't inflate tires very well. In fact, far as I can tell it's just a solid aluminum bar painted black with a rubber grip on one end and a brass air fitting on the other.

[cbl51]

To me, a knife is not even a last resort weapon, if there is a chair, pool que, tree branch, cane, Table leg, fire extiguiser, beer pitcher, hiking staff, ski pole, leather belt with nice heavy buckle, or SOMETHING ELSE at hand.

I ain't gittin in no knife fights.

 I ride my bicycle quite a bit, often late at night in deserted areas. My "something else" is a 20" long tire pump clipped to the frame. I've noticed that it doesn't inflate tires very well. In fact, far as I can tell it's just a solid aluminum bar painted black with a rubber grip on one end and a brass air fitting on the other.

Exellent, Victor!

That will give you reach over any knife short of a machete or sword, and have an immediate effect vs a knife's lack of shock and having to wait till they bleed out to drop.

[Victor3]

To me, a knife is not even a last resort weapon, if there is a chair, pool que, tree branch, cane, Table leg, fire extiguiser, beer pitcher, hiking staff, ski pole, leather belt with nice heavy buckle, or SOMETHING ELSE at hand.

I ain't gittin in no knife fights.

 I ride my bicycle quite a bit, often late at night in deserted areas. My "something else" is a 20" long tire pump clipped to the frame. I've noticed that it doesn't inflate tires very well. In fact, far as I can tell it's just a solid aluminum bar painted black with a rubber grip on one end and a brass air fitting on the other.

Exellent, Victor!

That will give you reach over any knife short of a machete or sword, and have an immediate effect vs a knife's lack of shock and having to wait till they bleed out to drop.

 cbl51 - I think you've got the key right there. Just as with "using enough gun," you want any weapon to stop an attack ASAP.

 My "tire pump" was made because of an experience I had with a dog chasing me once. I can get it into action with one hand and use it to whack with, without even getting off the bike (fight and flight). A knife would be useless without stopping, and a determined dog doesn't respect a cut near as much as a clobbering. It attracts no attention, looking like a common bicycle tool.

 That said, I keep one of these in my truck with the emergency stuff. It's good for digging, light chopping, scraping, stripping bark off of wood, etc. Could be employed as a weapon if need be but I'd still rather use the walking stick behind the seat...

http://www.coldsteel.com/spshovel.html

[cbl51]

Victor- I hear ya on the shovel. I've looked at those, and had a thought on getting one. It wouldn't look out of place in the back of my pickup, but I still have my old army entrenching tool, and I'm sooo used to that one.

But since I always have one of my hornbeam or blackthorn walking sticks with me, it's a moot point. The walking stick worked great on the off leash pit bull that went to attack our Welsh Corgi in a park one time. Can't argue with sucsess.

[deerhunter]

Go to Amazon.com and do a search on a Medline Bariatric Cane

its an old person looking cane for people who weight up to 500 pounds.  Its REAL STRONG steel and heavy.  It does not draw attention, its legal to take onto an airplane, and it would be good for defense if needed.  you would not want to get hit with this thing, it would be similar to getting clocked with a baseball bat.

Plus, it helps when you have to get up too. 

I got one and its great.  Plus, when I had hurt my knee, it came in really handy. 

[zeke08]

I thought the cia letter opener all plastic wont show with metal detector but will easily go through rib cage was what you were suppose to carry on airplanes? My bad I missed that memo I will check on the walking stick/cane