Does Briggs and Stratton now tun out crap?

[guzzijohn]

A dear aunt of mine bought me a new Sears 42" rider about four years ago with the 20hp "Professional" grade B&S motor. The motor has used oil from almost day one. Now last week it quite running and when I started looking into it I found a bent intake pushrod. Went to a small engine place and was told the intake rods bending is an ongoing problem with them. He sold me another and said to just put it in, check valve clearance and it would probably be fine for awhile. When I installed the rod and started turning the motor to get to TDC I noticed that the rod was not moving at all. So I am guessing either a lifter or cam lobe problem. The exhaust rod and valve appeared to be moving fine. I am thinking of donating the mower to our school's small engine repair class and go out and buy me a real mower. When I was growing up we had a Snapper rider with a little 8hp B&S motor and it lasted for years.
GuzziJohn

[Dee]

Like any other product involving gasoline, or diesel engines, some models have flaws. Chevy, Chrysler, Ford, or any of the foreign jobs have had their problems. I have a Briggs and Stratton engine on a Craftsman riding mower that is pushin 10 years old. It is a 18.5 horse with a 42" cut tractor type configuration. It runs like a top, doesn't use any oil, and has been good from the start. Would I buy another? Yep!
Someone else could have taken the same mower, and torn it up the first year, and some might make it last longer than I. I have about an acre to mow, and I keep it lookin good. How much are you mowin with it? My neighbor has 5 acres, and goes thru mowers like a dose of salts thru a widow woman.

[guzzijohn]

I will admit it has had a hard life, especially the first couple of years. We built a new place in a virgin pasture five years ago. The first couple of years I was mowing a lot of weeds and hitting other things at times. Now I have grass well established and things smoothed out pretty well. I guess that I am mowing around 2+ acres with it on a regular basis. My rougher outlying areas are mowed with my tractor and bushhog. Still I think I need a heavier all around mower. I am considering a John Deere with the twin Kaw engine. Everything about is much heavier built but also cost quite a bit more. See pictures.
GuzziJohn

[bobg]

  I have a cub cadet with a B&S motor. I have had it for 4 years. Never used a drop of oil. At one time i mowed 5 acres with it. The local lawn mower guy tells me he gets more mowers in with B&S motors that anything else. Maybe i just lucked out.
            bobg

[Dee]

Maybe he gets more B&S motors in because there are more B&S motors on mowers in that area than other motors. I hear folks tell others Ford is better than Chevy, and vice versa. I also found that a Craftsman will last as good as a John Deere and don't cost as much, with just as many features. Mine has a sheet metal hood, and John Deere has a plastic one. It's all in what you spend from any of them.

[DDZ]

My Dad has been using Craftsman tractors for mowing for the last thirty years. It seems that he is always mowing, he keeps around 3-4 acres mowed, and keeps it as short as his lawn around his house. He had an 18 horse power that lasted at least 10 years. The motor did finally start using oil, but I think any engine would after the amount of running it had done.  He now has, I think a 23.5 hp that is around five years old and has never had any engine problems.
You could buy a couple of Craftsman tractors for the price of a John Deer and some others. I would think for the number of years that B&S has been making motors, that if they did have a problem with a certain model of engine, that they would get the problem taken care of quickly. The reason that they are on a lot of mowers and other equipment is because they are reliable.

I have never had any problems with any Briggs engines that I have had. I can leave the gas in my lawn tractor over winter and it fires right up in the spring.
 I have a Honda 5.5hp on my log splitter and the carburetors are junk. I'm on my third carburetor. I guess that is the reason that a new one costs only $15. I kind-a wish it had a Briggs.   

[guzzijohn]

I went and bought a used JD X-300 with the twin Kaw engine from the local JD dealer. Man that engine sounds nice compared to the B&S. I am either going donate the Sears mower to a small engine class or have them go through the motor which they will do for parts cost and use it for a back up. The only good thing about not having any rain and 100+ temps lately is it gave me some time to deal with this without my yard turning into a jungle.
GuzziJohn

[rwng]

I actually make sure that the tractors / lawn mowers I buy have a B&S engine. For riders, I like the Vanguard series. I've had bad experiences with Kohler and can't afford Kawasaki (supposedly the best) on the market right now. But alot of these engines (if not all) are now made in China, so who knows about quality.

[Drilling Man]

  B&S like the other small engine makers, sells more than one quality of motor.  "IF" it's B&S, and you want an HONEST professional grade motor, it BETTER also say Vanguard on it!

  The Vanguards are as good as anyone elses top of the line small gas motor, the "other" B&S models, are second grade motors at best, just like everyone elses lower grade lines!

  Keep in mind, who ever spec'd the tractor out in the first place, chose what motor it got, and that wasn't B&S.  B&S just sells you what YOU ask for!

  DM

  BTW, the Vanguard motors are made in Japan, as are many of the "other" top of the line motors...

[guzzijohn]

I bought a 2006 X-300 JD with the Kaw motor and the same 42" cut as my Craftsman. WOW! What a difference. The Craftsman was rated a 20hp and the Kaw is rated at 17hp. That 20hp B&S must have been rated with Shetland horses and the Kaw with Clydesdales. Tall grass that bogs down my Craftsman not only does not phase the JD but I can run through it at a higher speed. Overall the JD is much smoother and quieter and will cut down on my mowing time.
GuzziJohn

[blind ear]

Guzzi, You ever think about getting into tree farming?      eddie

[SHOOTALL]

My dad got a Cub Cadet with a B&S motor used oil from day one . The store replaced it saying they get a few that way and pointed to 5-6 sitting off to the side for return. The replacement has been fine .

[guzzijohn]

Tree farm?? I have a lot of hedge.
I probably should have tried to get a new engine under warranty. At the time I just figured that is how they were concerning the oil use. I now wonder if I had some problem from day one with rings, etc. which may explain why it seems to have 20 weak horses.
GuzziJohn

[GrassLakeRon]

Two Words: Always Have (last 40 or so years)

Ok, I will explain.  All of the briggs engines (reg./IC/VanGuard) all died within a few years of owning them.  On mowers, power washers, pumps, generators, etc that the family has owned.  Kohlers, Tecumseh, and Wisconsins seem to run forever.  There was a time in the late 60's, early 70's that biggs had a decent engine, but not since 1972 or so.......


Ron

 

[Drilling Man]

Two Words: Always Have (last 40 or so years)

Ok, I will explain.  All of the briggs engines (reg./IC/VanGuard) all died within a few years of owning them.  On mowers, power washers, pumps, generators, etc that the family has owned.  Kohlers, Tecumseh, and Wisconsins seem to run forever.  There was a time in the late 60's, early 70's that biggs had a decent engine, but not since 1972 or so.......


Ron

 

  If Vanguards weren't a good motor, the 40 or more i know about working hard for their owners would have died LONG ago, including mine.

  DM

[SHOOTALL]

We use generators , 3500 -6000 . Hondas are the choice motor. B&S don't last long , Kohler are even worst. At one time we had over 30 running every day .

[Drilling Man]

We use generators , 3500 -6000 . Hondas are the choice motor. B&S don't last long , Kohler are even worst. At one time we had over 30 running every day .

  I like the "OHV" Honda's too, but even their cheaper OHC models aren't too bad.  The OHV models are no better that the Briggs Vanguards though, and Briggs has a MUCH better warr...

  My friend owns a sawmill company, he has switched from Honda OHV to Vanguards, and has seen no increase in motor problems, BUT when you do see the odd problem, Briggs takes care of it MUCH better.

  One customer had his 20hp Honda break a crank with only 10 hours on the clock.  This is VERY rare, but it happen, and it was a real excerise in patience to get Honda to replace the motor!  It took weeks of Honda screwing around with the customer trying to get out of the warr...

  For a time Honda 13's would break the bolts holding on the mufflers, yet Honda didn't want to take care of the problem.

  Then there was the problem with the Honda 20's stalling all the time in cold weather, and Honda just couldn't fix the problem.  That was the straw that broke the camels back, and my friend switched to 23hp Vanguards to replace the 20hp Honda's.  What an improvement!!

  The Briggs Vanguard on my sawmill, starts and runs perfectly, and has very good power, i'm very pleased with it, as are all of my sawmill friends who have the same motor.

  DM

[SHOOTALL]

We have only had one Honda give problems ( out of more than 40) and it was fixed in 3 days . We had used it for about 30 days and the crank broke . The motor was replaced at no charge . Warranty is on paper and some look great to be sure but if you never need it then it is of little use really. One problem out of over 40 is a good track record . Consider also the B&S on my dads lawn tractor was the high end motor and it was junk from day one .

[Drilling Man]

We have only had one Honda give problems ( out of more than 40) and it was fixed in 3 days . We had used it for about 30 days and the crank broke . The motor was replaced at no charge . Warranty is on paper and some look great to be sure but if you never need it then it is of little use really. One problem out of over 40 is a good track record . Consider also the B&S on my dads lawn tractor was the high end motor and it was junk from day one .

  If it wasn't an Vanguard, it wasn't high end...  My friend who owns Norwood Industries, buys small gas motors by the thousand, so it's a real test of a motor.  He's been buying them for more than 30 years, so he has a track record to back up his stats...

  Did you know that these days Honda doesn't build all their own motors?  They sub them out to third world countries, and the quality has gone down.   

  DM

[SHOOTALL]

Hadn't noticed the quality down , I only have since 1972 for experince . I will still buy Honda until we have problems . And it was a vanguard that gave trouble . And no i have not had 1000's only several 100. I only have personal experince to back up what i say.

[Drilling Man]

  Well, as i said above, Honda builds a very good motor, it's just not any better than a Vanguard.  I have some Honda's around too...  I think the Honda 13 "use to be" one of the best small gas motors ever made.

  Vanguards are made in Japan, and not ALL Honda's are subbed out.....yet.

  VERY few lawn tractors have Vanguards in them, but i'm starting to see more of them in the more expensive lawn tractors.

  DM

[SHOOTALL]

the one i mentiones was a $3000.00 Cub Cadet .

[gypsyman]

Good timing on this thread. My 25+ year old rider,Allis-Chalmers(Simplicity made) blew a head gasket. So about the end of Sept. I'm going to start looking real serious at a new rider.
I have my eye on one of the Huskarvana's at the local hardware store. They dropped the line, and only have 2 left. One is with a 22hp B&S, and the other,is a 24hp Kawasaki. I was told by the counter guy, who I've known for several years, the Kaw is a much better engine. I'ld like to stick with the  B&S, but since the price difference is only $200, maybe I can get the more expensive Kaw for the same price.  Any opinions?? gypsyman

[Drilling Man]

  Depends on which Briggs?  I'd take the Kawa over every Briggs model, EXCEPT the Vanguard.  Even though it's no secret that some Kawa's are showing up haveing some internal gear problems at 5 to 600 hrs, because the gears are made of plastic/nylon.

  DM

[charles p]

I have a B&S mulching lawnmower (Sears Craftsman) that starts better than any mower I have ever had.  No trottle control.  Runs at one RPM.  When it runs it sounds terrible, but it always gets the job done.  I'm not disappointed with the mower or engine but it seems to run too slow.  Mulches fine, even wet grass will not clog it up.

I filed for the $35 rebate on B&S mower enginges.  B&S had to set aside $51 million for false ads.  They marketed the exact same engine at different hp ratings and charged more for the higher hp engines even though they were not different from lower rated engines.  Google it and apply for your free $35.  Has to be a mower engine.

[Drilling Man]

  Briggs wasn't the only one that lost the suit and has to rebate.  Honda and others lost too, and all have to rebate some $$...

  DM

[guzzijohn]

Applications for the rebate had to be turned in by the end of August. This may explain however why my 17hp Kaw motor seems more powerful than my "20hp" B&S.
GuzziJohn

[Drilling Man]

Applications for the rebate had to be turned in by the end of August. This may explain however why my 17hp Kaw motor seems more powerful than my "20hp" B&S.
GuzziJohn

  It also explains why Honda no longer list HP of their motors, only the CC's are listed.   

  DM

[blind ear]

Guzzi, when the trees make shade you don't have to mow under them much if at all. Should have fair shade by the time that new mower wears out. eddie

[gypsyman]

Had to stop by the hardware store just earlier. Still had both the Huskvarna riders, but, I had gotten the 2 engines mixed up. The 24hp is the Briggs. Label on the engine says''endurance model''. And the 21hp is the Kaw. I went to the Briggs web site, and they don't list an ''endurance'' model engine. Just Professional and Intek models. Wonder if they changed the name, since these machine's have been on the floor for a year? gypsyman