243 for elk?

[southernutah]

Anyone one here had any luck elk hunting with a 243. I know it is on the small size but have oldest daughter with 2 Utah tags. Spike and a cow. Situation- 5' 2" tall and around 100#s. I let here try all the rifles I have and anything 308 or larger the stocks are to long and on the heavy side. I have a handi in 243 and thought a youth stock if i can find one should work. I have a box of 90gr Barnes X I can load and thought it might be the ticket. How hard is it to find a composite youth stock?

[wreckhog]

gendoc has a youth stock for sale in the classifieds. Bought my .243 barrel from a guy whose wife had multiple cow elk on it. Search the internet. Some guy is killing elk every year with a .223 and 60 grain Noslers.

My roughly 5.5lb .243 Superlight YATG (YET ANOTHER TRUCK GUN) has a Tamer buttstock (from Choate) and recoils like .308

[PawPaw]

I don't think I'd use a .243 for elk, although some hunters take them with sharp sticks. (Archery)

I've heard .25-06 bandied about as the smallest reasonable elk caliber.  Other folks may have other opinions.

[petemi]

Personally, I wouldn't use a 6mm on elk.  In this situation, there's two factors to consider.  The first is a little girl.  Do we want her first hunting experience ruined by a wounded animal?  I would guess a 7mm-08 would not be too much for her and will put the elk down.

The second is, I have never heard of the .243 touted as the ideal elk gun.

I envy the tags and wish I could be there.  Not meaning to sound negative, but I have seen kids first hunt wrecked by a bad shot or a poor load.  I'd go as stiff a load as she can handle.  A little shoulder pain is better than tears.

Pete

[Bigeasy]

No reason why a 90 grain X bullet shouldn't kill an elk, under ideal conditions.  Problem is, you can't always count on ideal conditions, plus you have to factor in the variable of a new shooter.  I would think as long as you limit your shots to 100 yards or under, broadside heart / lung shots only from a steady rest, it should work.

My choice would be a 7mm/08 with a 140 Nosler Partition, maybe in a Ruger Compact model #77. (Short stock pull, light weight).  Its a gun she can grow into, and use in the future.  Load light loads for her to practice with, then the eve of the hunt, you sight it in with full power hunting loads.  When she takes her first shot at an elk, she will not even feel the recoil, and she will be a lot better armed then she would be with a single shot handi with probably a poor trigger in a marginal caliber.  Like others have said on this post, you don't want to ruin her first experience with a wounded animal.

Larry

[southernutah]

Guess I should clear a few  things up. Daughter is in her 30s with 5 kids. SIL is in the Air Force. She has a H&R 30-06 Ulta Comp ( her gun but the only large rifle they have) but her husband wil be using it during the same hunt. He pulled the comp off because it was to loud and would be to long and heavy anyway.This will be a hunt just before they move again and he maybe deployed again this fall for the third time. Their money is tight with all the kids and I am more than willing to let her use anything I have. We will be trying the Handi 243, 2 different Encore 308s and possibly a BLR in 308 to see if they will fit short arms.

[PawPaw]

That puts a whole nuther color on it.  She should be able to handle any of those rifles, if they fit her.  I bet you'll find something she can use.

[billy_56081]

Put some good bullets in the 243 and tell her to hunt away. As old John Rose said "I killed  a whole lot of elk with a 222 rem mag before someone told me it was too small". He was a long time outfitter in the selway.

[mcwoodduck]

Of those mentioned I would go with a short stock on one of the 308's. 
Even is you have to hack one down and glue on a recoil pad. 
Have her wear her heavy coat if and when you cut the stock.
The only thing about the smaller calibers are you just have to limit your shots.
180 grain bullets of any construction I would limit shots to 250 Yards.
165 grain bullets and limit shots to 200 yards.
with the 243 I would limit shots to 125 yards.  Same with the 125 grain reduced recoil loads in 30-06 or 308 Win.
Good luck to her and her husband on the hunts.

[poncaguy]

Hit it the lungs--  heart area with the 243 and the Barnes bullet and she will have her elk...................

[spikehorn]

personally I'd go with the 308. I'm not a fan of 243s I know I'll get flamed by all the 243 lovers but I think you are better off with the heavier bullets. The ideal is a quick humane kill

[poncaguy]

I was meaning  the 243 would be ok for the girl if she was a good shot and close, if I were  hunting elk, it would be either my 300 WSM or my 338 Federal.

[dpe.ahoy]

Lotta Elk killed here in Montana every year with the 243, mostly by kids and women and at longer ranges than 150 yd.  Elk aren't bullet proof, put a bullet in the heart/lung area and they are meat.  The Barnes X bullet is an excellent choice for the hunt.  If she can handle it the BLR would do a great job, I kinda like them too.  DP

[thejanitor]

Hope they have a fun hunt before the move....  My Dad and uncle always brought the 243 along on their elk trips as a spare in case they had a mishap with the .270s and had to swap one out. They had loads with either a partition or GS back then I believe. With the bullets you mentioned I don't think the elk would go far with a barnes through both lungs. The tracking if there is no exit wound could get a little "hairy"   that would be my biggest concern, knowing it's down and not finding it would make for a sleepless night.
BUT if she shoots well and the shot is clear there is no reason she shouldn't have a successful hunt.
Good Luck! thejanitor

[Spanky]

Sounds like a disaster in the making.
Good luck.



Spanky

[trotterlg]

Guess I am just old, I don't see any problem with it at all.  If it were something that would eat me if it didn't work it would be a different thing.  Here in WA State a 25-20 is legal for Elk.  Today I was up lookng for a Bear with a 30-30, and it has a lot less zip to it than a .243.  Larry

[Spanky]

It ain't the 243 I'm worried about... it'll do the job just fine.



Spanky

[tacklebury]

Personally, I think that it depends upon your situation and ability as a marksman.  If you are comfortable with a .243 and can place your shots well, you will probably be more successful than with a .338 Magnum and flinch and miss your target or hit akwardly.  In a survival scenerio, obviously, you hunt with what you have.  Elk were taken with .45 cal. muzzle loaders and a round ball.  If that will take them down I'm sure a properly loaded .243 will also.  One other point though is that if you are into hunting for sport, it is wisest to use a weapon/caliber which can insure a clean and quick kill.  There are probably much better calibers and were it me, I'd definitely use my .45-70 or other more powerful caliber, because of the improved energy.  Just my 2 cp. 

[Sourdough]

I'm going to throw something in here from a differant angle.

The .243 with a heavy bullet, will do it's part if she does her part.  There comes the rub.  Excitement of the hunt, wanting to fill that tag, weather conditions, all play against her doing her part.  Also, what is she going to do if she runs into a preditor in the area?  Odds are high she won't, but what if?  

I just read something here recently about a Grizzly attack in Montana.  My wife is 4'11" and at the time weighed 98 lbs, when we got sent to Alaska.  She knew here little .44Mag carbine was not adiquate, so she went and bought a Semi-auto Remington 7400 in 30-06.  The only thing she did was cut down the stock to an 11" pull.  She can shoot it well.

A 30 cal allows for a slight margin of error.

[petemi]

I've got a .308 Ruger M77 MKII that I would highly recommend.  It's light and short, but will get the job done well.

Pete

[oldsoldja]

I have a youth synthetic I could trade you. then when my grandson is big enough, we trade back.

[JW307]

I hunt elk every year in Wyoming, where I was born and raised.  I've seen a lot of elk killed with a 243, with very few problems.  Most of the 243 elk kills I've seen are made by young, small kids who have never shot a big game animal in their lives.  My brother killed his first bull when he was about 13 or 14 years old with one 100 grain bullet out of a 243 at about 200 yards.  There is absolutely nothing magical about elk.  You put a bullet in their lungs and they die, just like any other animal.  Obviously you're not going to be taking a shot at 400 yards at a hard quartering bull with a 243, but it is plenty of cartridge for cows and spikes at reasonable ranges, especially with the TSX bullets.  I think it's pretty funny that young, inexperienced kids manage to kill elk with 243, but all the arm chair elk hunters that have never even laid eyes on a wild elk, let alone shot one, think it requires a 375 H&H with premium bullets to even slow one down.  In my opinion, formed by years of experience and over a dozen personal elk kills (all with a lowly 308 Win.), you should load up some 90 grain triple shocks and find her an elk herd.  I hope you guys have a great hunt.

[blind ear]

Pop killed a truck load of whitetails with a 22 WMR. It is about where you put the bullet and being sure you only take shots that you are sure that you can put the bullet there. eddiegjr

[canon6]

I guess I had better resurrect the 11 elk I have killed with a 243. from 1973 until 1995 it was my second favorite rifle. I used Speer 105 gr Hot Core and 4350. All got dead  with one  lung shot.    Doug

[petemi]

You're missing the point here.  An experienced hunter and marksman can literally kill anything with anything.  I killed a big doe one time with a .22LR.  It doesn't make the .22 a deer rifle.  I believe the lady needs the most adequate rifle for the job, barring the magnums, which she probably couldn't handle.  The amateurs rely on them....they compensate for lack of skill.  Personally, I'm happy to say, of the 40 plus guns we own, Patty's .22 and my .357s and .44 are the only Magnums we own.  All not elk guns.

Pete

[PHATINJUN]

If she's in the AirForce I would think she would be proficient in firearms or at least had some training with something other than a F22 Hornet pun intended. I'd put the short stock on "her" 06 with the comp and slap the 308 in the hubbys hands...but I don't see her having any problem with the proper fitted stock, correct bullet and a little practice and preaching of shot selection with the .243 being any problem . Kurt

[NFG]

Here we go again...It's not necessarily the size of the gun, it's the ability of the hunter...that means the hunters ability to put the bullet where it belongs, using a bullet that will penetrate far enough to upset and/or stop the normal body functions and do so at a range within the capabilities of both the hunter and the weapon.

I reloaded cartridges for an old man, way long time ago, 100 gr Rem Coreloks at about 2800 fs, 250-3000 Savage, open sited Savage 99.  He shot ALL his game with this same load and gun for the 15 years I loaded for him...one bullet per animal, always less that 100 yds...elk, deer, antelope, stock thieving varmints, sick stock...whatever.  Anytime I showed up for a deer/elk hunt and had anything much larger than a 30-30 he would spit baccy juice on my boots (or just about anywhere else for that matter) continuously.  I spent more time watching him and jumping out of the way than watching for game so he usually got the first shot.

I've taken more deer with a 22 LR than with just about any other caliber.

I have a few friends that use 222's, 223's, 22-250's, or several 22 cal wildcats and don't have any problems with getting any of the deer/antelope/elk tribe.

Where I hunt a 75 yd shot is a long one.  If I were hunting in open country I would use at least a 7mm cal so if a 3-400 yd shot presented itself there would be plenty of energy left.

Pick the rifle and caliber for the animal and range you expect to hunt and have enough courage to leave the questionable shots alone.

Luck

[petemi]

Pick the rifle and caliber for the animal and range you expect to hunt and have enough courage to leave the questionable shots alone.

Luck

Brother, you said a mouthful.  Good on ya.

Pete

[NFG]

I haven't hunted public land in 25 odd years...way to many mindless ijits that shouldn't be walking much less driving and carrying a dangerous weapon.  And I'm very selective about WHO I hunt with.

3-4 seasons ago I got AllzHymers, needed to cut more firewood, didn't know what time it was, what day it was, much less that it was deer season.  I went to my favorite wood cutting area and cut a cord, then drove down to a nice spot I usually stop at anytime I'm in that area...it has a clear view of the road coming up the canyon, the mountains all around and a nice slope next to the road.  There is enough open area for me to shoot squirrels, take a few pics and just look at nature.

I was wondering why the H*** it was so dusty...no wind hardly, no commercial wood cutting, no log trucks.  After the first couple of ATV's went flying by and a PU full of >>>>>>>waving guns I figured out why all the dust and WHAT was I doing here anyway.

While I was finishing my sandwich and waiting for the dust to settle I caught a movement out of the corner of my eye up the slope.  There were 14 does and spikes, one NICE 4 point(8 point to you easterners) and two forks starting to work their way down the slope.  There was enough cover to hide in and everytime a vehicle went by they just stepped behind a tree or bush and waited.  It took 45 minutes for them ALL to get down, across the road right in front of my truck close enough for me to almost reach out and cut a throat.

Not ONE person, other than me, saw those deer and EVERY one of the vehicles that went by slowed down a bit and either scoped or binoc'ed that slope...and I don't think any one of then saw me sitting in my truck...not one stopped, waved or even looked my way.

That isn't the worst part.  While I was sitting there watching the deer...and they were watching me just as close when they walked, not run or trotted...just a normal deer saunter, quick stop and lookee/listen flopping those big ears.  The worst part was watching hunters down on the bottom road banging away at deer running up the far side of the mountain, looked to be a half mile away.  Over the hood, out the windows over the bed and leaning on the tailgate. I doubt they even hit the mountain much less hair.

Once the deer had moved over the edge I moved out and didn't stop or slow down until I hit pavement.  I was praying I didn't get hit by some errant bullet fired in the air by some phool the next county over just to say he "got a sound shot".

I grew up in a different era and different circumstances,  under different rules and expectations.  Not too much of that thinking being taught  in todays world, sad to say.  Everyone I know, old and young poached at one time or another...for FOOD, not for slaughter and even then there were rules about what you shot.  The one game warden knew who was doing what, WE knew he knew...there was an overabundance of deer, the farmers could get a permit to shoot anything that moved in their fields and could have just left them there to rot, but instead most of them would call for a "deer push" and the animals were divided up so nothing was wasted.  The warden was happy, the farmers were happy and the hunters were happy and the excess deer wer culled so the stock sayed healthy.  Think that could happen today??  Very few can even understand what all was going on with that sort of thing, nor anything about the ecology of a "deer push".

I lived in Utah and worked in Nevada for a few years.  Every winter when I drove up I-15 many times.  I saw literally thousands of animals killed by vehicles lying along the side of the road...on EACH trip...the hills in certain areas were alive with hungry animals looking for ANYTHING to eat.  Herds of deer, elk and antelope moving across empty snow covered fields and not ONE farmer or rancher would give you permission to hunt their land...for ANYTHING, sometimes not even to their kin.

Totally disgusted me.  I don't know if that has changed, I haven't been to Utah OR Nevada in 15 years.

Anyway, there is the right way and all the rest of the ways.

Luck

[Sourdough]

I'd put the short stock on "her" 06 with the comp and slap the 308 in the hubbys hands...but I don't see her having any problem with the proper fitted stock, correct bullet and a little practice and preaching of shot selection with the .243 being any problem . Kurt

I agree with phatinjun.  I shoot guns with breaks all the time.  I wear head phones for ear protection, works well, and definately needed with a break.  Both people need the hearing protection.