Cast iron rollers cast onto shaft

[Cornbelt]

Does anyone have any experience trying to "undo" a shaft from something that has been cast around it?  I'm finding out as I go, but its beginning to get "interesting".

 The problem: One roller on a sorghum mill has the above, but also the shaft sheared off, so if I can get it out of the casting, another shaft will make it go. On one end, a sawzall blade fit betwixt the shaft and roller and made short work of the wart of iron that flowed into a hole in the shaft. But the other end is stuck fast, and no room for a saw blade. Roller is hollow, and I don't want to strain the casting with a press or very much heat.
 
 Any ideas?

[CannonKrazy]

I feel your pain and know what you are dealing with. I ran a machine shop for years. A friend asked me to help repair an old cain mill (3 roller). The babbit bearings had worn out and the shafts were running steel on steel. I tried driving the shaft out of the main feed roller with no success. After trying to press them out I finally gave up and went to plan C. I chucked the rollers in a lathe and drilled then bored the remander of the shaft out. Because the rollers are hollow it makes it very hard to key the roller and shaft. After putting a new shaft in the roller I chose to drill all the way through the roller and shaft then drive 3 half inch rods through the side. This has been working pretty good for several years now.

[Rex in OTZ]

I was interested in Hit and miss engines, there is quite a bit out there on the internet of old Iron guy's building up old cast iron flywheel engines they discuss allot what they do how they come up with ideas on fixes, there is old iron forums that are chock full of ideas.

Seems the Penn Hill country is full of massive stationary flywheel engines that were once used to pump oil then were abandoned, the big thing these days is to drag them out the hills and rebuild them to near as new as they can get them.

[Cornbelt]

An antique machinery association put me in touch with a guy who helped me find this mill in Amish country. It was an all day quest, and of course the guy with the mill had no idea we were coming, as we didn't send him a post card first, but we were still able to come home with one of two busted mills, (the lesser of the two evils). In order to round up all the parts, we needed to go see "Moses" down the road who had tried to press it out a couple years before, which is how I found out about how it was made. We went looking for a missing gear and bearing blocks which he still had lying around, though he didn't remember where they had come from. (Neither did the first guy remember what had happened to them, so on the off chance that he had left them with Moses, we took off and eventually came home with a press.
   So for the last few days, I've been drilling, cutting, chistling, etc. Turns out the top of the casting was cast around a step on the shaft with a couple more warts on opposite sides of the larger diameter.  Once I had drilled a groove all the way around deep enough to get to the hollow part, I could use a torch . Then the whole thing came out the bottom with no more trouble.
   Now that its out, I'm thinking that I ought to leave the warts there to key it to the new shaft, so It doesn't weaken the casting by cutting a keyway.
  Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there was this 3" studbolt about two ft. long I'd scrounged about 25 yrs ago just waiting for such a time as this. But it had a couple gouges in it where  a nut or two was cut off with a torch, by another nut or two, (yeah, I helped) so after grinding and welding up the gouges and turning down to fit, I've noticed that the weld around the outsides of the areas must've cooled down more quickly than the rest, leaving hard spots, which makes the tool jump.
    I know a slow turning cane mill ain't exactly rocket science, but I'm thinking that a hard spot or two at a bearing journal might not be a good idea. So I've got some options: Either figure out how much heat it takes, and anneal the whole thing, or else saw off the nut on the other end and use that end which hasn't been welded; sawing off the welded end.  Another option would be to build the whole last 4" or so up with a welder -maybe using stainless, or just mild steel like the old and new shafts, then turn it down, mill keyways with a ball-end mill and slide it in from the bottom. Then maybe use a captive key dressed to fit against the "warts" and turn the whole shaft down at the top journal.
  Another problem is that the lugs the gear fits on have aparently been jumping around a little, 'cause at the top of the cast roller, the lugs are worn.   So about that, can I dress the worn edges of the lugs back to sharp, and put the gear on with babbit, letting the babbit fill in the voids? What about Devcon epoxie steel?
  And what about locktite for the shaft, since I won't be casting iron around it, and it therefore won't be shrinking tight?
  At the bottom end, I'll need a key of some kind. Hadn't thought of drilling it crosswise. Glad you mentioned it, CannonKrazy. (Know any more tricks?)
  Meanwhile, our sorghum is getting ripe, my regular job started this week, and I still ain't found a second-hand jackass with enough sense to walk in circles, but first things first. ANY more suggestions you may have to make life more sportin' would be most appreciated!   
                                                          C'belt 

[CannonKrazy]

The lugs or teeth that you mentioned are a challenge. I tried welding up a set of old rollers then grinding them to fit the lugs in the top drive gear. It worked but it took forever to grind back to original fit. Another set of rollers I rebuilt worked better and didn't take as much effort to do. Once the shaft and roller were fitted together I took square key stock (1 1/4" I think) and cut them to fit the drive gear. Grind to match the gear and then weld to the shaft. There are easier ways to repair them but most require a machine shop to do it.
After rebuilding my friends mill we put a price on the actual hours it took me to do the work not including the hours planning what to do. We came up with better than $2,000 for a pieced together cain mill. It works great and he has been using it for awhile now.
We poured new babbit bearings after rebuilding the rollers. I had an old piece of shaft material left over when I turned the new shafts. I made a mold out of red clay that matched what the babbit should have looked like new. I then placed the shaft in the side where it would be located as if installed in the mill. Heat and pour the babbit in the mold. It took a couple of tries to get it right and then I had to shave a little off to make them fit just right. All in all we were proud of how it turned out. Everything seems to be holding up very well. I still ain't got a bottle of syrup yet though.

[Cornbelt]

Looks like you've been where I am. Glad to know it all worked. The bearings I have yet to attend to, but only one insert is actually missing.
 Hadn't thought of welding keystock to the inside of the gear itself. That might save me some time. You ought to have at least gotten a jug of syrup though.
 By the way, what did your friend use for a jackass?

[CannonKrazy]

For many years while his father was alive thats exactly what he used. A jackass. His dad was a real character and a heck of a man. For a few years after he died my friend let the farm lay out and didn't plant anything. Most of the live stock was sold off including Nell (jackass). One day we were out by the barn looking at some of the equipment and he decided it was time to put it to use. Thats where I came in with the mill. There was a couple of old John Deer riding mowers that were worn out but the motors were still OK. We mounted a cyprus log to the mill and pulled it with a mower. I have been digging around some of the older equipment he no longer uses trying to find a couple of sprockets and chain. We have been thinking about mounting the motor and sprockets on top of the mill. The syrup he makes usually goes pretty fast. Many family members and friends stop by every year to watch and enjoy the show. His wife makes a few pans of biscuits (store bought) Somebody will cook sausage and everybody has a pretty good time.
This is a dying skill. Not many people take time to make syrup anymore. He does it to keep the tradition going. It's alot of work for little return but it brings folks together that normally wouldn't make time to just sit and chat. The older generation usually makes a day of it sharing storys.

[Cornbelt]

Well, we're currently jackassless. Had one once, but he did NOT deign to subject himself to manual labor. In fact, he wouldn't even abide a set of panniers. So if at all possible, something with a motor sounds good.
This year I'll probably go around in circles with whatever I can, but I've been thinking about turning the whole thing on its side mounted on timbers to drive it with an antique engine  -too much work to do before this harvest season. Some of the bigger sugar cane mills were horizontal, but I'd need a jackshaft to slow it down to about 2 RPM, which I reckon is about jackass speed.
  Gave it all a good cleaning yesterday and found a few cracks. Also found a cross-pin repair in the main roller like you mentioned doing. But I figure some of the cracks have been there 50 yrs, so they won't get a whole lot of worry -yet.
 As far as syrup making goes, even the Amish guy is thinking of getting out of it, though with 11 kids, he shouldn't lack for help. Mostly its demonstrations at antique power shows, but for a whole crew, two trailer loads of stalks and a whole weekend of work, they only turn out about 15 gallons. They do sell more than that, but they buy it from the amish first. And like you said, its the older folks who are keeping it alive.
  Question about the riding mower: Was there any problem with spinning, or was there even that much torque against it?  I might just name our riding mower "Jackass".

[CannonKrazy]

The mower did pretty good on it's own oncethe grass was worn down some. We had to give it a nudge to get it turning because of spinning. To over come the weight problem we laid a couple bags of deer corn on the seat. To keep the mower tracking in the same path around the mill we tied the steering wheel to the arm that lowers the mower deck. It ain't much to look at but works.

[Cornbelt]

Thanks for the ideas CannonKrazy, I like the idea of a motor. It wouldn't take too much to beat trying to induce a jackass to work against his better judgement.

[CannonKrazy]

Something else to consider. I went to a local farm equipment sale last year looking for small tractor. While there I noticed an old mill was set up on a trailer. Who ever built the rig had used a rear end from a car or truck and hooked the yoke to the PTO drive of a tractor. The axle had been cut off and a universal joint was installed on the end and to the top of the mill. It was set up with a drive shaft about 6 feet long. Looked like someone had done their home work.

[Cornbelt]

I like the idea of a rear end drive. Wouldn't be too hard to rig up. Maybe for next yr. We're going around in circles with a garden tractor for the present and concentrating on how to cook all the green "frog stew" into good syrup.
  It's been interesting, and like you said, a lot of people drop by just to see what's going on. We've made about 7 gals. so far. Pretty time consuming project all the way around, but things have fallen into place. The old mill is back in business.
  By the way, the gears are turning backwards. That side of the lugs and teeth were almost new, but with a lot of slop. Instead of putting them together with babbit, I used Bondo fiberglass body filler. Now it turns clockwise. Maybe after another hundred years, someone can reverse directions again.
  To re-babbit the bearings, the forms were soup cans and a hominy can for the main roller. They already have the grease grooves with all those little ridges.