Many questions about lube/sizing

[rodgervich]

I'm still fairly new to casting and have some questions.
I inherited a Lee electric pot and a couple of molds and an old Lyman "Handbook of Cast Bullets". I bought a used Lyman 450 lubrisizer with some old funky lube in it so I squeezed it out best I could and put in a new stick of soft lube, don't remember the name but it is something "gold". I also got top punch and sizers for .358 wadcutter (.38 Sp) and .452 SWC (.45ACP). Just been using wheel weights.
I have been very happy with the .45 bullets, they shoot as well as jacketed match bullets in my gun and leading is minimal. The .38 bullets also shoot well, just for cheap plinking. I just picked up a .30 cal rifle mold to use for 30-06 practice/plinking/rabbits, 311359, 115gr GC.
I am planning to use light charges of Unique or similar for squib loads in the 30-06, currently using 100 gr SPEER Plinkers with good results.
Questions:
1) Do you think I can use the same soft lube for the rifle bullets?
2) If I change to a hard lube how do I empty the soft lube out of the sizer?
3) Is there a cheap alternative to the electric lube heater?

I have no instructions or anything about how to use the 450. I have it working OK but I find that after a few bullets go through there is a big buildup of lube on top of the lower "punch" under the bullet. It probably doesn't hurt but makes a mess on the bench from the bottom of the bullet.
I press the bullet down, then crank the lube handle, then raise the bullet, is this correct?
Is there an adjustment I can make to eliminate this?
Any help, instruction or advise is very appreciated!

[dakotashooter2]

I had this problem too. What I ended up doing is pluging some of the lower holes in the luble die with lead shot. Some dies have way too many holes for the type of bullet being sized.

[John Traveler]

Rodgervich,

Your questions are plenty sensible, and I remember having the benefit of an experienced bullet caster machinist that coached me along when I started.

The Lyman 450 lube sizer leaks.  They all do!  You can minimize that leak by adjusting the sizing depth by screwing the adjusting rod that controls how deep the bullet goes into the die.  Be sure to set the depth locking nut when done.  Trial and error to minimize the leak.  Plugging unused lube holes with birdshot works too.

Yes, you can pretty much use hard/soft lubes interchangeably when loading for smokeless powder rifle or pistol.  Many BPCR shooters swear by the soft non-petroleum lubes for best accuracy.

Some people like the "crayola" coloured lubes.  You notice that most commercial cast bullets use them, but I suspect that they are more cosmetic and make handling easier than anything else.  I've always had good results using the NRA recommended ALOX brands.

Try setting a small heatlamp on your lube-sizer.  That really makes a big difference in cold weather!  A portable heater to heat up your loading area also works well.  I can't bring myself to spending money on a real lube-sizer heater, but if it came to it, I will go to the electric supply store and buy a low-wattage heater strip and screw it to the cast iron frame.

HTH
John

[Leftoverdj]

Dunno about the real hard lubes since I never use them, but a heat tape of the sort used to keep pipes from freezing works fine on my old Herters in cold weather. 'Bout $5 at any hardware or home supply store. You want one 4'-6' and just spiral it tight around the body.

The only time I ever really cleaned out a luber, I just dumped the whole thing into a big pot of soapy water and boiled it a couple of hours.

[cukrus]

On a cold day I use a yard sale hair dryer to take the chill off the lubrisizer.  Any heater may expand the lube, so back off the pressure rachet on top of the lube chamber.  Keeping the pressure just barely enough to fill the lube grooves helps avoid the build-up of lube under the bullet.
It seems to me easier to use the lube up and just add whatever you want to the reservoir.  I'll roll up bits and squirts of lube like a silly putty snake and wrap it arround the stem when it come time to refill.    More fun than waxing    cross country skis!   Neither bullets or skis seems to notice streaks of different colors.  (When you get a corporate sponsor for your competetive events you may have to be brand specific.)
cukrus

[FAsmus]

Rodgervich:

You ask:

1) Do you think I can use the same soft lube for the rifle bullets?

F:  Yup. Just keep the velocities under 1800 ft/sec and all should be well.

2) If I change to a hard lube how do I empty the soft lube out of the sizer?

F: Heat the whole works in the oven, set to 200 degrees. (When your wife is gone outa the house!)

3) Is there a cheap alternative to the electric lube heater?

F: Placing a light bulb close to the sizer will work.

Also, keep in mind that sizzing bullets is only marginaly necessary. Lubing is the primary ppurpose of the machines.

I have always used the SAECO typpe sizer. It never leaks and lubes about 15 bullets for each rotation of the lube handle.

Good moorning,
Forrest

[HWooldridge]

You shouldn't have to crank the lube pressure handle every time you lube a bullet.  I have a SAECO lubrisizer and it will pump lots of grease under the bullet if I get carried away but it works quite well if I do my part.  The SAECO has a spring and leather washer to put constant pressure on the lube.  My procedure is to put just enough on it to have the lube start oozing thru the holes in the die, then set the bottom punch to allow the bullet grooves to barely align with the die holes.  At this point, I should get a fully filled bullet.  Depending on the slug design, I can size 5 to 10 bullets until I see gaps in the lube then turn the handle only one half turn - not a full revolution.  Too much pressure will cause the grease to build under the bullet since it squirts in as the bottom punch passes by.

I used to work in the garage and in cold weather, would use a propane torch to take the chill off.  Now, I cast outside and size inside so the lube is always at room temp and flows fine.

[FAsmus]

HWooldridge:

H: You shouldn't have to crank the lube pressure handle every time you lube a bullet..

F: I beleive I said (above) that I can lube 10 to 15 bullets per rotation of the lube handle.

That is, I rotate the hamdle once and lube until I get bullets showing partially filled grooves. It depends on the bullets being sized as for how many can be lubed per turn.

If I have one porblem with the SAECO tool it is that the darn thing will not fill the grooves of long heavy bullets completely unless I cycle them through the die twice or maybe even three times.

This is not a partically filled groove so much as it is air being mixed with the lube during the operation. In order for the grooves to be filled with solid lube re-cycling is necessary.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[HWooldridge]

F,

I was addressing Rodgervich's question.  He asked if the proper procedure was:  "I press the bullet down, then crank the lube handle, then raise the bullet, is this correct?"  And my answer was - no - you don't have to crank the lube handle every bullet.  This is one of the communications problems in using a forum rather than holding a friendly conversation around the campfire...you don't know who said what-when.

I have had the same issue with the SAECO leaving partial fill on long heavy bullets and I think it's due to the slug passing the grease holes in the die too quickly.  I have used lube sticks but also melted and poured lube in the housing to try and eliminate air pockets.  If you go a bit slower on the down and up stroke and if the lube is warm enough to move well, it is easier to fill all the grooves in one stroke.  However, when this is not possible, I just bring the bullet up to where I can see the nose and cycle back down again.

[FAsmus]

HWooldridge;

H: I was addressing Rodgervich's question..

F: Sure. I understand.

H: I have had the same issue with the SAECO leaving partial fill on long heavy bullets and I think it's due to the slug passing the grease holes in the die too quickly..

F:  I have also tried pouring lube into the machine and letting it cool as I tried to figure out why I was getting air mixed with lube as I operated the machine. It seemed to help some but didn't elminate the problem. These days I have found that if I just compress the normal lube sticks in my hands such that the hole intended for Lyman/RCBS sizers is gone I get as-good a result as if I melted the stuff and poured it in.

H:  If you go a bit slower on the down and up stroke and if the lube is warm enough to move well, it is easier to..

F:  Roger the method. I know it helps too.

Here is how I see the problem: When sizing bullets down in the process of lubing them there is nowhere for the air in the grooves to go when the lube is forced into them: The bullet is tight enough in the die body to have formed an air-tight seal. The air, having to go somewhere, mixes with the lube, at least parcially and in accordance with the hardness of lube, tempertures of lube & machine and so forth.

Working slower allows the air to find its way past the bullet but even so the problem persists.

My best "fix" so far is to have a bullet of correct size right from the mold and then lube only with the SAECO by selecting a die about 0.001 or possibly 0.002 over nominal bullet diameter. This situation permits the air to escape as the lube is forced into the grooves and I can almost always get a full fill of grooves in one pass, no matter how long a bullet I'm processing.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[HWooldridge]

Sound theory...similar to casting bullets.  No vent and you get partial fill - the air has to go somewhere.  It's also best practice to have a bullet cast close to final sized diameter since it reduces deformation.  The longest bullet I size is a 45-70 NEI design that weighs about 450 gr in linotype.  It has 4 small grooves and is harder to fill than my single groove 45 ACP bullets.