Making Progress

[robbob]

So I went and ordered a half scale six pound 1841 smoothbore from Cannon Mike and have started working out the carriage dimensions.   I had a set of plans for a quarter scale Parrott and I doubled the dimensions foe the carriage. Today I made templates for the tail and cheeks.  The trail is about 45" long and 4" tall.  The cheeks are 16" long and around 7" tall.
Here are some photos of what I have accomplished so far.
Sorry I am out of powder and have no empty cans for scale.  So for scale I included a soda can and my Brooks 24 pounder which has a 15" barrel

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29609534@N08/4888887045

Here I have the trail with a cheek attached

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29609534@N08/4889483604

Here is a shot of the cheek template

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29609534@N08/4889483700

Here they are attached
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29609534@N08/4888887135

and separate

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29609534@N08/4889483662


Edited to attach photo links.....maybe that will work......

[robbob]

HMMMMM.....where are the photos I attached?

[Double D]

They are there, just not coded in a manner the software can see.  The coded line need to end in a picture extension code like jpg or gif or some such.   I don't think flickr does that.

While you are talking to Cannon Mike make sure you tell him that you are posting referrals for  him  on www.GBOCannons.com and suggest he might look into becoming a sponsor. He getting some powerful free advertisement here. Beside he makes a nice looking product and is Oregon.

[robbob]

While you are talking to Cannon Mike make sure you tell him that you are posting referrals for  him  on www.GBOCannons.com and suggest he might look into becoming a sponsor. He getting some powerful free advertisement here. Beside he makes a nice looking product and is Oregon.

Will do!

[robbob]

Bought some wood today.  8/4 red oak 9 feet long 12 inches wide.  They planed it down to 1 3/4.  I had to wait a while for him to do the planing so he only charged me for rough sawn and only 15 board feet.  Only $4.25 per board foot, $67 and change for more than enough wood to build my carriage.  Also got some 1/2" all thread and square nuts.  There is a surplus outlet here that has all kinds of neat stuff.  They always have square nuts and large square head bolts.

Oh, And I can't forget the bandsaw.  Got one of those today too.  I'd say I had a very good day!!

Rob 

[Double D]

I suggest you don't cut any wood until the barrel arrives and you can check measurements against barrel to verify.

Of course you could go ahead a build without the barrel. Then if the barrel doesn't fit you could build a cannon to fit the carriage and you would then have three cannons...definitely a win  win situation.

[robbob]

I suggest you don't cut any wood until the barrel arrives and you can check measurements against barrel to verify.

Of course you could go ahead a build without the barrel. Then if the barrel doesn't fit you could build a cannon to fit the carriage and you would then have three cannons...definitely a win  win situation.

I was so looking forward to doing some cutting.  I have gotten an extensive list of dimensions from Mike and Bruce.  Mike won't be producing any barrels until October.................That seems like forever.....

[Double D]

I suggest you don't cut any wood until the barrel arrives and you can check measurements against barrel to verify.

Of course you could go ahead a build without the barrel. Then if the barrel doesn't fit you could build a cannon to fit the carriage and you would then have three cannons...definitely a win  win situation.

I was so looking forward to doing some cutting.  I have gotten an extensive list of dimensions from Mike and Bruce.  Mike won't be producing any barrels until October.................That seems like forever.....

Kind of like waiting for Christmas isn't it.

[robbob]

Worse!!

[robbob]

Huge thanks to Dom for helping me re-design my cheeks!  He is definitely THE MAN. 

I decided to make a full size mock up of the carriage I intend to build out of scrap lumber to make sure it is right and to practice my band saw skills.  When i get to cutting the trunnion pockets in the cheeks, what is the best method? A.) forester bit (if I can find 2.25"). B.) hole saw C.) band saw?

Rob

[GGaskill]

Forstner bit so they are truly round.  And drill the hole before you saw the profile so it goes through straight.

[robbob]

Forstner bit so they are truly round.  And drill the hole before you saw the profile so it goes through straight.

That is what I was thinking.  My dad who is a long time woodworker thought I should use a hole saw, but I thought the forstner bit would make a cleaner cut without burning material.  I'll probably attach both cheek pieces together to cut the hole and the profile.  
 

[moconfed]

Are you making your own cheek irons, or buying them? If buying them, you might hold off on cutting your cheekpiecess for the trunnions, etc., as cast irons are tapered, and will definitely affect progress until you have them in hand.
I considered red oak for new cheekpieces on our 6pdr, but due to it's nature to split, decided against it, as I definitely didn't want to run the risk of damage due to recoil.

[robbob]

Dom will be making the cheek irons for me.  Trunnions are 1.75.  I probably won't start cutting the oak until the barrel arrives.  Since I have never made a project of this scale I want to make a "practice" carriage first.  Besides it will keep me occupied until the barrel actually arrives.   According to Dom I want the center of the trunnions to be directly above the axle so I'll make the "practice" carriage to help work out their proper placement.  I'll make a circle cutting jig for my band saw and cut some wheels from plywood for starters.  4" PVC pipe would probably make a good mock up of the barrel.

[moconfed]

Planning on live firing? Be sure to use rondelles inset into the stock and the cheeks, especially if using allthread for your bolts- that alone will give your carriage great strength in that situation, as it transfers the recoil through the whole of the piece, rather than just stressing the bolts.
Looking forward to more pics!

[robbob]

What exactly are rondelles?

[GGaskill]

They are what look like spacers between the cheeks and the trail but they are actually the pieces that transfer the recoil force from the cheeks to the trail.  If your plans don't show them, you should get a plan set from Antique Ordnance Publishers for the gun you are building.

[Cannoneer]

Rondelles are iron disks with holes in their centers for the insertion of bolts, and they're placed between the cheeks and trail on some types of wooden artillery field carriages of the 19th century. Bolts go through the cheek, rondelle and trail, then out the rondelle and cheek on the other side to secure the cheeks to the trail. The rear rondelles have projections that fit into circular mortises that are cut into the insides of the cheeks and on the trail, and these rondelles transmit the force of recoil from the cheek to the carriage trail. On our CW era field carriages the front rondelles between the cheeks and trail don't have projections as they just act as spacers.

The front and rear rondelles are shown (bottom) in this photo from "Trail Rock Ordnance."

[robbob]

Can I use flat washers and t-nuts?

[Double D]

I made mine on the lathe.  The can also be used to adjust the width of the cheek piece  slightly.    They aren't just washers.  They are load bearing bushings

[robbob]

Hmmmmmm............no lathe.......any other ideas on how to fabricate........

The Plans I am using are for a quarter scale carriage.  If I double all the dimensions, the trail will be 3 3/4", the trunnions on Mikes barrel are1 5/8 long, I plan on making the cheeks 1 1/2".  Adding the dimensions of the cheeks and trail give me 6 3/4", so I would have a 3/4" gap on either side, so they would have to be 3/4" thick, unless I make the trail a little wider.

I am not aiming for 100% historical accuracy and will mostly make noise.  Maybe shoot some balls on VERY rare occasions?  I want a SAFE, fun cannon. 

[Double D]

Here is a very important rule of thumb for building these guns.  Never build the gun for how you will use it, build it for how the next guy will use it.

These rondelle bushing are fairly simple job on the lathe.  Check with one of sponsors and see what they will charge you to make them for you.  The job is worth doing right.

[intoodeep]

Robbob,

 When making my 1/3 scale I used steel discs (2" x 1/2") that can be purchased from McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#steel-discs/=8fz1f7
They are nicely cut.  I drilled a hole in the center of them.  Then, I will press a tube into them.

 I didn't have the option of a lathe or equipment to cut them. Hope this helps.

[robbob]

Robbob,

 When making my 1/3 scale I used steel discs (2" x 1/2") that can be purchased from McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#steel-discs/=8fz1f7
They are nicely cut.  I drilled a hole in the center of them.  Then, I will press a tube into them.

 I didn't have the option of a lathe or equipment to cut them. Hope this helps.

Nice idea.  What type of tube will you insert?

[robbob]

Planning on live firing? Be sure to use rondelles inset into the stock and the cheeks, especially if using allthread for your bolts- that alone will give your carriage great strength in that situation, as it transfers the recoil through the whole of the piece, rather than just stressing the bolts.
Looking forward to more pics!

Should I use bolts instead of all thread?  I think the surplus store where I bought the square nuts has square head bolts that would be long enough, however they are 7/8 diameter, which might be too big.

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

I made my own bolts using steel rod and dies.  All thread tends to be a little weak in my opinion, and making my own was really kind of fun, plus it allowed me to make my own eye and j-bolts so I could attach my trunnion caps without requiring removal of the bolts to take the barrel off the carriage.  If you can find bolts that will do the job, I'd probably go that route unless you want to do your own.

[GGaskill]

If you don't have a lathe or don't want to pay someone to make rondelles, you can simply have your metals dealer saw off disks from round stock of the size you need and you can drill the center holes.  Make the rear ones extra thick so they can be inletted into both the cheeks and the trail.  The larger diameter will make them more effective at preventing splits anyway.

[robbob]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  Since Dom will be making my cheek irons, I'll have to ask him.  There are also two metalworking shops within a half mile or so of my house, I may see what type of round stock they have or order from mcmaster.
 
I am inheriting my grandfather's drill press soon so I know I will put it to good use.  My father doesn't get around too well anymore, so he has gradually ben giving me some tools as I have projects requiring their use.  It's and old Delta from the 40's. It was in our basement and I used it a lot as a kid.  It's a great machine and they definitely don't make them like they used to.  Anyone have a DP 220?  It has a series of 3 pulleys to adjust the speed.  I have been looking to no avail for an old manual.  I'm sure that I may have to slow it down to drill through thick steel. 

Rob   

[dominick]

I have plenty of solid rounds here, no need to order if you go that route.  Also, I've seen a few scale cannons that have wood rondelles.  They were cut with a hole saw.  A few also have solid spacers between the cheeks and the trail.  The spacers are shaped flush with the top of trail.  This is not like the original, but it's an alternative.

[robbob]

Thanks Dom.  Once I get all the dimensions worked out we can talk about thickness etc.  

This morning I cut out the "practice" trail.  I learned a few things.  I need to do a better job of clamping.  There were some voids in the middle of the clamped material.  I think I can avoid this with the oak, it has been planed flat, for my sample I used 2x6 which is not flat, nor do I have a planer to make it flat.  I expected that would happen, so it's no real surprise.  I also only clamped it together with quick grip clamps as I did not have any parallel jaw clamps.  I got 3 from my dad this week and may pick up a few more.  I also need to pick up a wider  blade for the band saw.  The blade I used is 3/8", the saw can handle up to 3/4".  There are more straight cuts than curves, and the oak will be much harder than the 2x6. I'll use the 3/4" blade for the straight cuts.  Since the stock will glue up to almost 5", it's almost like re-sawing.  I also need a better chisel or two to clean up the inside corners etc.

Here is a picture of what I have so