The Worst Hard Time

[vacek]

I just finished the book, "The Worst Hard Time", by Timothy Egan.  This book is about the dust bowl that took place during the decade of the 30's.  Talk about dirt hitting the fan.  Anyway, for those who like to speculate how they would do in hard times, would do well to read this. 
Both of my parents grew up in the dust bowl.  My dad in the Oklahoma Panhandle and mother in the Texas Panhandle.  They lived on farms and while it was rough they never really went hungry.  But until the day my mother died, she always had at least a year of food in the house and no debt.  I think that is what got my grandparents through those times when others failed and lost their homes and land.  They knew how to keep themselves fed and were not in debt. 
I will never forget a Sunday in the 60's when a big dust storm blew in.  At the time I thought it was interesting but more so how my parents and their generation reacted.  It brought back a lot of bad memories and they were upset that it was all coming again.  Regardless, the book is based on interviews and research, but a lot of basic knowldege can be gleaned. Hmmm...gleaned, a good word for an ole farmboy.

[steg]

My Mom was the same way canning everything she could get her hands on, the Wife and I kept up the tradition, went one time with 6 months and no pay, but between the chickens we were raising and the canned goods we and the kids never went hungry. now the people are lazy, all they need is just a trip to the store away, and preferably microwaveable, convenience you know, but if those hard times come to them they are going to be totally lost, and the first ones trying to take away from you what you worked so hard to store up. Freezing is ok for short time but if the power goes so does your food, once its canned its good for years..............................steg

[Blue Duck]

I remember my parents talking about all they had was potatoes.  Not much else but they had that.  That was a real depression.  This last one was made for tv.  Ya times are poor for some folks, but I noticed the Mall parking lots were always full, and everyone was still driving around.  I remember my granddad telling me he sharpened his razor blades by rubbing them on the inside of a water glass.  Most people now days would never make if the times ever got that bad.

[vacek]

And therein lies my point.  A lot of time is spent on which gun, how much ammo.... should I bug-out or stay put, etc, etc.  That is beneficial but in most cases the problem creeps up not usually the proverbial mushroom cloud.  Over time  things get worse and worse but at a rate that  concerns you but doesn't necessarily trigger "ok, I gotta do something NOW!!!!" 

That is why it is important to start living at some level as if the situation is already upon you.  Startthe transition ASAP...Stock up on the necessary items, keep out of debt, have several financial / negotiable  strategies and tactics (like a significant amount of cash + significant amount of silver/gold + barter items of high interest).  Develop some skills that will give you something to negotiate with.

[Rex in OTZ]

Just last month had a snafu with the paycheck, ended up skimping on allot till it got straight had to hawk some my tools and other stuff to make the hard bills, was down to eating wild greens like fire weed, sourdock and dandelions, labardor tea, fresh caught trout (dolly varden) & whitefish(sheefish).

[hillbill]

And therein lies my point.  A lot of time is spent on which gun, how much ammo.... should I bug-out or stay put, etc, etc.  That is beneficial but in most cases the problem creeps up not usually the proverbial mushroom cloud.  Over time  things get worse and worse but at a rate that  concerns you but doesn't necessarily trigger "ok, I gotta do something NOW!!!!" 

That is why it is important to start living at some level as if the situation is already upon you.  Startthe transition ASAP...Stock up on the necessary items, keep out of debt, have several financial / negotiable  strategies and tactics (like a significant amount of cash + significant amount of silver/gold + barter items of high interest).  Develop some skills that will give you something to negotiate with.

+1 IVE DONE IT, IM READY AND IT FEELS GOOD!

[gypsyman]

We've got about 3 months stored up right now. Would like to double that before winter sets in. Garden is producing,finally. Should have tomatoes ready for juice and salsa in the next couple weeks.
Gonna get some beef ready to can in the next month. Never did it before, but would like to get 15-20 qts set up. Never have enough. gypsyman

[vacek]

I think why both sides of my family made it through the dust bowl was the fact that they did raise their own food, traded eggs and creme for groceries they couldn't grow themselves.... and most of all didn't have debt.

[Lloyd Smale]

the pressure cooker is running as i type this!

[Casull]

I notice most talking about not having "debt", but unless you inherited the family spread, or have already been living in your place for 15, or 20 or 30 years and paid off your mortgage, it's pretty hard not to have debt.  Unless of course you are renting, in which case you have the "debt" of a rental payment.  Well, unless you know someone that is giving away land and homes.

[Dee]

My Dad and Grandparents went thru the depression, and Dad was more affected I think than any of the family. He became a workaholic, and was not happy unless he had all the bills paid, and enough to pay next months. He never really learned to relax after he became financially secure, and was never a kid. He just didn't seem to know how to have fun, but he left Mom in good shape.
As far as being debt free, my wife and I applied ourselves, cut back on the fun, and paid for a house in 7 1/2 years, and then bought the oversize lot east of it, and paid cash for it. IT CAN BE DONE if one is willing to sacrifice and are serious about it.

[Casull]

Yeah, Dee, it can be done.  But, it still takes time.  You just made my point for me.  Of course, in your case, it took 7 1/2 years instead of 15, 20 or more.

[powderman]

We raised all of our kids to plan for the worst and taught them how to raise a garden. NONE of them have a garden, only one has a few veggies planted. For most of  them they got soft and a garden is too much like work. We save seed from what we grow every year. One tomato has been in the family since right after ww11. I saw a preacher on tv advising everybody to store garden seeds for long term storage, he also said the govt is pushing seed companies to develop varieties whose seeds will NOT reproduce, scary. YEP, people are soft today. During WW11 Americans dug down deep and sacrificed and did without for the war effort, I doubt it would happen today. Another thing that guy said was always have a backup water source and keep cash on hand, small bills. POWDERMAN. 

[vacek]

I wasn't trying to be critical on the debt thing.  We should just do our best to minimize it especially the short term high interest credit cards getting built up for "toys", etc.  Stashing some extra cash, (make a point to pay yourself some money each month as the first bill), silver and/or gold ... undestanding how to get and sustain a buffer supply of consumables (including food of course) is all a good practice.  Here is a funny one.... I know the one thing my wife could not do without and that is floss.  Ever month I buy a couple extra and store them away.  I do the same for other things as well.

I basically believe the "bad times" coming will be more like the great depression (probably worse) than a total chaotic society.  Probably some severe inflation and a lot of unemployment.  Being able to weather that would be a goal.  It can be better weathered if your debt is as minimal as it can be...

[Pat/Rick]

I'm starting over at 56 but I had a real good down payment! LOL! Our payments are small so we can bump up the monthly amount. Only have 1 car payment and the wife will have schooling to pay for, she is getting her masters. Just tighten the belt, buy what is absolutely necessary. Keep enough for fun, just spread them out and stay frugal. It works.

[vacek]

Yeah, I won't be retiring for awhile.  Finally got my 401K back to where it was.  Put it all into money markets cause I think the stock market will take another big dive.  My daughter is planning on spending her senior year in England (geology) and hopefully a 1 year masters at Cambridge.  So even though I'm as good as 59, looks like I will still chase the check.  O well.... I'm having a blast making that paycheck so what the heck.  My job gets me all over the world so (1) I really realize how blessed I am; (2) I have learned by observation just how little you can happily get by on.  I am also intrigued when in Asia,  India, and Latin America how each neighborhood has their own specialists.  In Viet Nam about every other street corner is a motorcycle mechanic/s.  Pretty much 90% of the traffric in HCM AKA Saigon is motorcycles.

Once in India I watched a blacksmith who set up his business under a big tree right off the street.  Actually his set up was a hole in the shoulder of the street with Coal burning (fanned by a hand crank air pump ... his kid), another hole with the cooling water, his hammer, cutter and anvil (2.5 ft of railroad tie).  All day he would take old rebar and make chisels.  He must have done that to order, because every once in awhile someone would pull up in a car or yet again a mortorcylcle, hand him some cash and drive away with chisels.  Interesting.

[Lloyd Smale]

In this day and age a guy should have a 3 month supply of food at least. A bomb doenst have to be dropped to need it. With the economy of this country a guy never knows when even his retirement check or social security check may quit comming and you poor souls that still have to work for a living know how volitable the job scene is right now. How many times have you hear about an entire company telling the employees to not bother to show up tommarow. Just a major power failure can put alot of a mans food in the trash. Canned and dry food are more important then any weapon you spend money on as a survial tool.

We've got about 3 months stored up right now. Would like to double that before winter sets in. Garden is producing,finally. Should have tomatoes ready for juice and salsa in the next couple weeks.
Gonna get some beef ready to can in the next month. Never did it before, but would like to get 15-20 qts set up. Never have enough. gypsyman

[Dee]

I'm starting over at 56 but I had a real good down payment! LOL! Our payments are small so we can bump up the monthly amount. Only have 1 car payment and the wife will have schooling to pay for, she is getting her masters. Just tighten the belt, buy what is absolutely necessary. Keep enough for fun, just spread them out and stay frugal. It works.

Pat/Rick I had started over too, and I was 46. Had a house paid for, and had to sell it to pay some huge emergency needs. It bothered me and my wife so much after having a house that was paid for, and now not having a house at all, we really bared down and done it again in 7 1/2 years. Also "cash wise", I lost thousands in the real estate crash here in this part of Texas about 3 1/2 years ago. I was 57 and had to go back to working long hours. It doesn't really take that much, but at almost 61, it ain't as easy as it used to be. It's just part of life, and what you make of it. God says: By the sweat of our brow.

Casull I didn't intentionally make your point, and don't think I actually did. My point is, I think living debt free means one has to sacrifice, and it can be done fairly quickly without "inheriting" anything. One can do it on their on by "applying themselves", and I personally believe it "commendable" when anyone does so, and does so on their own.

[teamnelson]

Good stuff here - appreciate the thread. Both Grandparents through the depression, Dad used to collect scrap metal for the Big War, but they built so much wealth out of their desire to be free that the subsequent generations (even my aunts and uncle) are comparatively lazy. Grandpa Charlie had a HS diploma and carried water to the schoolhouse where he met Grandma (she was the teacher); 2 of his 3 kids have PhDs, most of the grandkids have a Masters, and the great grandkids are starting to hit college this year. But with all that education, my house is the only one with any skill in the things that Grandpa had to do each day in the home he grew up in, and nowhere near the proficiency. I admire their hard work and sacrifice for their families, but in some ways I feel cheated that they did not teach me all the things they knew that I have to relearn.

I've been debt free 17 years now, except for a mortgage for a few years - I'm 42. I don't know anyone my age in my profession that is debt free. If they went to college, they have on average $40K in student loans; if they didn't, they have on average $40K in personal loans ... really nice cars, phones and toys to show for it. Somebody somewhere taught them that they deserved to have everything NOW instead of working hard and paying cash LATER. I'm sensing a trend ... we don't want our kids to "suffer" like us. Why the heck not? Seriously, was there no value in the lessons learned associated with hard work and deprivation? Seems like those lessons are the things that will get people through the next dust bowl event.

[Casull]

Casull I didn't intentionally make your point, and don't think I actually did. My point is, I think living debt free means one has to sacrifice, and it can be done fairly quickly without "inheriting" anything. One can do it on their on by "applying themselves", and I personally believe it "commendable" when anyone does so, and does so on their own.

Dee, I know it pains you to agree with me, so you say you didn't.  Funny thing is that I was acknowledging that you did it faster than most.  But, in any case, I didn't say that inheriting was the only way.  But, it does take time to be debt free, be that 7 1/2 years, or 15 or 20.  But, regardless of the amount of time, the OP was talking about his parents making it during a time of no work, so unless they already owned their place, what he was describing would not have been possible.

[vacek]

If OP means original poster, that would be me and it wasn't about my parents... they were children during the depression, grew up in it.  I was talking about my granparents.  My grandfather on my mother's side was born in 1886.  He went by wagon to the Texas Panhandle in the pre-19teens, broke sod and made his way on his own.  He was a middle child in a set of 11.  He worked hard and by the time the depression hit owned his land.  My grandfather on my dad's side born (12 siblings) in 03 came over from Moravia on a boat in 1910.  He learned English, worked hard and had his land paid for by the depression.... no inheritance there.  They were frugal and when the depression hit, they suffered but survived and recovered quickly.  

Now to spoiling.  The first day of summer after my 6th grade year my grandfather (dad's side) woke me up and told me it was time to go to work.  He had my mother help me pack a week worth of clothes, took me out to the farm and put me on an old Farm-all.  My OJT was that he rode two round with me around the field, told me that if I fell asleep I would fall off and be plowed under.  Anyway, I got paid $1 per hour and we worked 12 hours/day 6 days a week.  I won't ever forget that first $72 check.  Pretty proud of it, then Mom (when the weekend came) took out 10% for church, gave me $5 to live on and put the rest in the bank.  I was told that from then on I would be buying my own clothes, spending stuff, ect.  Been working ever since.

I will also never forget when my mother in the 1980's found out I had a $300+ credit card debt.  She chewed me out in front of the new wife.  Great parents and grandparents.  Wouldnt have taken a million for the up-bringing.

[guzzijohn]

It does take sacrifice to live debt free. At age 55 my house (five years old) and shed (garage) is debt free and I have 560 acres of farm land which is debt free except for 80 acres which I hope to pay off later this year. I will admit that 160 acres were inherited. I have some mixed feelings however. Back in 2001 my wife died at 45 years of age after a short illness. She was never able to see the fruits of her labor and sacrifice. She could have enjoyed more things in life if we had not sacrificed as much as we did. You just never know what tomorrow will bring.
GuzziJohn

[Casull]

My grandfather on my dad's side born (12 siblings) in 03 came over from Moravia on a boat in 1910.  He learned English, worked hard and had his land paid for by the depression.... no inheritance there.  They were frugal and when the depression hit, they suffered but survived and recovered quickly. 

So that would have been about 20 years to become debt free, which was my original point (not sure why everyone seems to key on inherit, which was merely one possibility).  Even though they were frugal, do you think maybe things might have been different if the depression had hit in 1915 or 1920 instead of 1929?

[Dee]

Actually there WERE TWO DEPRESSIONS during that time period. One from 1907 to 1908, and then another from 1920 to 1921, just prior to a longer lasting one starting in 1929.

[vacek]

Casull,

Both worked for others until they could buy their own land.  I don' think they were ever in debt.  What they did have going for them was the inflated price of wheat and rainy years during and shortly after WW1.  They both started with nothing, worked until they got a start, expanded slowly, died well off.  When my grandfather died in 1958 at the age of 72 he was still driving his pickup bought right after WW2.  My other grandfather died in 82.  Funny thing, he had a Caddy and and Bonneville but still cleaned out all the ketchup jars and such.  Couldn't throw them away.

I can't help but admire the man.  Came over to the US with his parents when he was 7 or 8, learned English, worked to get started and died well off.  He sure did work the tail off my cousins and I.  I guess it did some good.

[Casull]

I can't help but admire the man.  Came over to the US with his parents when he was 7 or 8, learned English, worked to get started and died well off.  He sure did work the tail off my cousins and I.  I guess it did some good.

Yep, called the American dream.  Too bad so many today forget about the work part.   

[powderman]

Yep, called the American dream.  Too bad so many today forget about the work part.   
 
 
 
YEP, aint that  the truth. POWDERMAN. 

[vacek]

I'm heading back to SE Asia next week for three weeks.  Will do Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, and the Philippines.  Vietnamese, talk about a work ethic and going after the dream.  Its amazing.  They are all working (in a "communist" country no less) to make their lives better.... and of course their economy is truly active and growing.  I work with several who were children post war in the "Austere Time".  They are as a rule physically small because they didn't get the nutrition they needed, but talk about dynamos.  They work like our parents and grandparents did.... not waiting around for a handout, but getting out there and making a buck.  Impressive.

[ihookem]

Well, for what it's worth my mom grew up in Utica, New York. She was born in 1938. The depression was no different than WW 2. She told me they were so poor the only thing they had to eat many nights were dandelion leaves so they went outside and picked them for a salad and had oil or vinegar on them. That was it many nights. They were Italian so they liked oil and sauce and vinegar. This is one thing loaded with protein that noone seems to think about. I hear they are good for you too. My dad had it much better in Shawano county Wisconsin. They alway had food but never went more than a few miles from home. They were luck enough to have river frontage so they had ice till June and could at least go swimming and fishing. I think a real good post would be to list all the "strange" things you can eat cause no one thinks about some of that stuff. I might make a new thread about strange things that are edible.

[vacek]

Ihookem,

Good post.  That is one reason why the Vietnamese have been able to survive and eventually win so many wars of occupation and civil wars.  Their country is bordered on the east by ocean and they have significant rivers, mountains and agriculture.  And they will pretty much eat anything edible.  They actually fared well (nutritionally) through the wars, it was the post war with the USA austerity program (communism) that about did them in.  They got past that and man can they put away the food. 

In my travels throughout Asia I have learned that things we turn our nose to are relished.  Had some duck tongue once in China...chewy but not bad. ..you scrape the "meat" off with your teeth.  Saw a little brother and sister get in a fight over a fish eye.....Same trip I had a fish head with eye...not bad at all..........It was the camel udder satae in Brunei that did me in.  Kept chewin and it kept growing

I am always a little shocked how the new generation (including my own children) won't eat organs, giblets, gristle, etc.  My dad, sis and I used to go axx over teakettle trying to get to those choice parts first... .  Its pretty hard to beat a good fresh deer/elk heart battered and fried up.  We didn't eat dandelions growing up but every summer we picked a big enough mess of lambsquarter which was blanched and frozen for the year.  We also went after the wild onions.  Great in Ham and Beans.