THE SUBJECT HAS BEEN BREACHED

[williamlayton]

OK FOLKS---the subject of .22 pistols has been breached ( I have been corrected correctly----BROACHED IS THE WORD), anyhow, and we, long of tooth and short of memory--heavy weapons and big calibers--OLD GUYS---have given the acceptability of discussing these little stingers.
I will admit that I was not going to breach the subject----just didn't want you boys too think I was going pansy on you.
Actually, I have a fond association with them dating back to the 50's.
I have been looking around for one for several months now.
My first consideration was the Hi-Standard. I have a close association with them from the 50's and it worked flawlessly for a number of years with only minor cleaning.
Without consideration of cost---meaning, I am looking for a quality, functionalially, very good semi-auto---what is your thought.
It does not have to be a 1911 configuration--though that is an interesting consideration.
It does not have to be a high accuracy, Olympic gun.
Blessings

[Dee]

I have the Browning BuckMark, Camper. Super accurate, (could shoot matches with it), very reliable, will easily accept a scope or red dot if that's your taste, and feels much like a 1911, with the control in the same place as the 1911.

[kynardsj]

Buckmarks, Ruger semi autos and single actions are all great choices in a 22 LR.

[dbriannelson]

Ah, too many.  My first handgun was a .22 Ruger Bearcat, which I still have.  Never could shoot it well.  I passed it to Dad back around 1972, who swapped it for a Ruger Standard.  When I visited the farm on leave and found out, I found the guy he'd swapped with and swapped back (adding some cash).  But I liked the Standard and bought one.  Swapped it for a High Standard, like the one I competed with in college (couldn't really shoot that one well either).

Those autos went away eventually, but a Colt Woodsman ended up in my pile o' guns and stuck around for a few decades, eventually becoming part of a deal for something else. Had a Single Six for awhile, but it was too heavy for a .22 and it too become trading fodder.  Bought my (then) wife a pre-war PPK in .22 shortly after we were married - it was eventually stolen from our car.

Maybe fifteen years back a friend was planning to retire back to his home in Alaska and wanted to off-load some handguns in order to drive up.  I got a fine deal on this transitional Kit Gun, which I'll never sell:



In between those things I've had maybe dozens of others, most with the intent to use in deals.  I had an FFL a long time back and did the gun show circuit and picked up High Standard revolvers, bunches of European .22 Short mouse guns, even one of those tip-barrel single shots that Interarms used to import.

Twenty-twos are fun when you want to spend a morning shooting, whether at the dump ground or a range.  I don't do that enough anymore.

I have to admit, I'm much more fond of the old stuff, so if I were going to buy another one it would probably be an old blue Ruger Standard or Colt Woodsman with a 4" barrel and standard sights.  The Colt is prettier, but the Rugers are easier to find.

-Don

[shvlhead.45]

I'm with Dee, the Browning Buckmark is very accurate, controls in the same place as the 1911s and fits in the belt slide holster I carry the 1911s in.  I sold a really nice Colt .22 (Cadet) complete with factory hard case, two magazines... to finiance the Buckmark and have absolutely no regrets. 

For my next handgun purchase, I look to get the Ruger Single Six Convertible as the understudy for my .45 Colt Blackhawk.

Take a look at the SIG Mesquito(sp) and the Walther P22s as they are really nice little .22s. 

v/r
Shvlhead.45

[Brett]

Well Bill, If I recall right your not a big fan of Tupperware guns.  You also strike me as kind of a traditionalist, appreciate quality and have a bit of a taste for history.  Based on this I would suggest you hunt down an older High Standard Victor or Supermatic Trophy, or Colt Woodsman Match Target or Target.  

I believe you have a fondness for the 1911 as well.  An interesting new option in this area is German Sport Guns 1911.22.  I have not handle their 1911 but I have handled and my brother owns a couple of their military long gun .22 clones and they are well made and very dependable.   From what they say many parts are interchangeable with mil spec 1911's.  http://www.gsg-waffen.de/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=61&Itemid=99&lang=en

[mechanic]

I have the Browning BuckMark, Camper. Super accurate, (could shoot matches with it), very reliable, will easily accept a scope or red dot if that's your taste, and feels much like a 1911, with the control in the same place as the 1911.

YEP

[Bigeasy]

Wiliam

You read the quick test I did on the GSG 1911 .22.  It seems like a nice gun for the money.  But if you are looking to step up a notch, I would look for a clean, used High Standard Victor (or any of their top grade target pistols, as they vary in grip style, sights, barrels, etc.), or a S&W model 41.  I own both, and its a toss up as both are more accurate then most rifles, and exhibit beautiful polish, fit, and finish, with triggers to die for.  Depending on model and condition, look to spend around $500 to $700.  A couple hundred more then the Rugers and Buckmarks, but worth it.  If mounting an optic is a consideration, both have solid tops that make mounting easy.  Back when bulls eye was popular, these are the guns that ruled due to their accuracy and reliability.  Another consideration is the Kimber .22 conversion kit on one of your frames.  My kit is very accurate indeed, though I have never found a load that is 100% in the feeding / functioning department.  Or how about the complete Kimber .22 pistol?  I have read very good things about it in terms of accuracy, and reliability, though have not tried one.  Pansy factor aside, I like going to the range, watching the guys shoot their 9mm's and 40's at 25 yards, brag about the groups; then I pick up my Victor, and shoot nice little 10 round groups INSIDE their groups on the target...

Larry

[dbriannelson]

Just back from the local shop.  They have a nice pre-Woodsman circa the 1920's in the case for a ridiculously low price.  If I could have even seen the bitty sights at arm's length, I'd have put the money down.

-Don

[Brett]

"Pansy factor" huh?  Sure, I like my centerfires, but I love the fact that I can get 500 rounds of .22 and plink all afternoon with my .22's for what it would cost for 50 rounds of .38, 9mm or.40 that would last all of five minutes.   So in essence this 'pansy' will still be shooting long after all the centerfire only guys have gone home to clean their guns. 

[smong2000]

Words aren't necessary...

[mcwoodduck]

I have the Browning BuckMark,... Super accurate, (could shoot matches with it),

+1  I do shoot matches with mine.
I think the Buck mark is one of the best for the $.
One would should be on your list to look at.
Add to that a few in the used case.
As far as the 22 Conversions.
Kimber and Ciner make good ones for the 1911's
Ciner makes Glock uppers as well.
CZ makes one for the Cz 75
Sig makes one for the different P22_ series They make.
When I first got a Sig I wished they would make one for the P226 I have.
Later I changed my mind and am glad I have a dedicated 22LR.
The pluse side to the Conversions is you already have a holster.
But Holsters for Brownings and Rugers are pleantiful.
Don't over look a good M17 or 18 revolver

[darkgael]

Ah...er...hmmm.
Broached. The subject has been broached.
Breached means something else.
+1 about the old High Standards - the best American target pistols ever made.
Pete

[williamlayton]

Yup, yu is shore rite.
I am leaning to the hi-standard---maybe for sentimentality.
Blessings

[pmeisel]

I have a stainless Mark II.  It is a great little gun, and I should shoot it more often.

[Mikey]

William:  you never said what you want to use it for or how you wish to carry it.  I had a older High Standard - nice piece but solid steel.  My Ruger MkII is also heavy but it is the bull barrelled Gov't Model.  The Beretta 21A is probably too small for your purposes but other Berettas may be applicable.  I would also suggest the Sig Mosquito but they may not have the accuracy you might like and they are a 'larger' 22.  My favorite now is the Walther P22 - what a ball.  Any of the Remington varieties, Thunderbolts or the high speed solids, Winchester high speeds and even the rem Sub Sonics cycle without a hiccup.  I can skip cans with it at 25 yds, chase squirrels up a tree (and sometimes even git'm), and I can just shoot that darn thing all day - get 2 or 3 extra mags and you can have a ball.  imo.

[williamlayton]

Mikey
A plinker and range gun.
The Beretta 70/71 offers some spectacular offenseve History in the hands of the Israelies.
Just not what it is all about though.
I guess I am going back to my old kicking a can and just shootin days--water baloons and such.
I have an old K-22 that I will be teaching my daughter on as it has the same characteristics as the .327 S&W I bought for her---This'un is just for me and the little tyke one day.
Blessings

[NickSS]

I have owned several dozen 22 pistols and revolvers and have several currently.  If you are looking for accuracy for bull eye shooting by all means buy either a high standard target model (I owned several) or a Model 41 Smith (never owned one but have fired a few).  If you are looking for a good plinker and small game shooter good choices are the Browning Buckmark, any of the Ruger autos, Colt Woodsman, Colt or S&W 22 revolvers, Ruger Single Six or a good conversion unit for your 1911. 

I have owned many other 22 hand guns and these are the ones I can recommend.  Others either were too big, or inaccurate or had iissues with ammo.  I really liked the looks and feel of The Walther P22 but it turned out not to have the accuracy I desired so I sold it.  A gun that i had for a loog time and shoot thousands of rounds thru was the Berretta 21A.  A fine little gun but the sights are no good so except for really close range, it was sort of useless for most applications.  I eventually traded it off for that reason.

[Autorim]

Let's see now. How many .22 handguns? M63, 317, SP101, 4-617's, 3-K22's, M17, M18, M41, Ruger auto, plus a few assorted others - all are fun to shoot. I am a huge fan of the .22 rimfire.

[Ak.Hiker]

USFA is making the Colt Woodsman Match 22. They are known for their quality products and sure would be worth a look. You can check them out at usfirearms.com.

[williamlayton]

Lordy---Hi-Standard is Mfg in Houston. Is this a sign?
Looking and the repy's are good.
Blessings

[williamlayton]

Hummmm! Quandry.
Doing some internet reasearch has caused some amount of quandry.
While the Hi-Standard still holds some interest:
It is produced locally now. Don't know if the new owners produce the same quality OR if they are trading on the reputation of old. Any feedback here is appreciated.
Browning and Ruger are old standards produced by the same people (companies) or am I being a little to cautious.
I lean, at this time, to a basic, Browning---as I said before--nothing fancy just a good
shooting, reliable weapon.
Ruger is an unknown product---feedback helpful--but I trust the name brand.
Blessings

[JeffDavis]

William,

Listen to me and hear me say this as gently and respectfully as I can muster. Get off the fence and listen to yer gut. GET THE HIGH STANDARD!

Make it a Victor if it is for you, or a Model B if it is for you and the grandbaby.

[curteric]

I'm with JeffDavis.  I have a number of High Standards the newest was purchased new in 1977. It is a Supermatic Citation. most of the rest were from the 50"s that I have accumulated over the years, before people knew what they were. Other than the new ones I never paid more than $100 for one. They can have cracked frames from weak springs and high velocity ammo. but if they don't re-spring any of the older ones and you will have a fine firearm. I really like the Model B's and H-D's I can't speak to the Mitchell manufactured ones.

[Bigeasy]

OK William, one last dose of my 2 cents-

The Rugers are nice guns.  I have had several, and now have a blued 5 inch heavy barrel Mark ll with a 2x scope.  Its accurate and reliable.

A friend had a Buck Mark, and had accuracy problems with it.  Sent it back to Browning, and got it back 3 months later with a note saying it was within accuracy specifications for that gun.  He sold it.  Now that was years ago, when they first came out, so this probably has little meaning with current models.

The OLDER High Standards, as well as the Smith #41 are at the top of the heap when it comes to fit, finish, accuracy, trigger, etc.

It all depends on what you want.

If you are looking for something small and lightweight, the Walther P22 is nice.  I have one, and it is a nice "Back pocket while you walk in the woods gun".

Thing is, most of the guns you are looking at are full size guns, and all weigh about the same, give or take 8 or 10 ounces.  I don't know why people can carry a .45 1911 for example, all day long, but complain if a .22 weighs "To much".  What is to much?


I figure, if money is not a concern, within reason, why not get the best?  To many people seem to think, "its only a .22, so this is good enough".  Why settle?  Not much difference on the hip between any of em, but with the High Standard or S&W, you are carrying the best.  Pride of ownership is a big factor in a handgun.  How many people sit there and fondle their Glocks with a smile on their face?

I am not sure about current High Standards, but there are lots of CT made guns out there that are beautiful.  And don't discard the Smith 41 without at least handling one.  You ll see what I mean.

William, look at the pictures below.  That's the gun you REALLY want..lol

Don't keep us in suspense..

Larry

[Brett]

The best I recall the Texas High-Standards were not up to the same quality standards as the originals when they first came out.  I don't know what the current crop are like.   

Ruger's .22s (both the semi-autos and SA revolver) are tough as nails and reliable as a hammer.  MarkIIs and MarkIIIs come in a number of configurations ranging from basic fixed sited plinckers to pretty serious target pistols.  These are hefty all metal guns.  They also have a .22/45 version using the same upper but has a plastic grip frame which duplicates the angle and controls of a GI 1911 45.  Like the MK semi-autos, the Single Sixes also come in a number of configurations, barrel lengths, fixed or adjustable sites, blued and stainless.  One plus for the SS is that they come with both a .22lr and .22mag cylinder so you are essentially getting two guns in one.
Rugers are built for the long hall.  Your great, great grand kids will still be shooting it if you decide to get one.

Here are the two examples I own, a Super Single Six and a MKII Heavy Tapered Target Model:


.   

[Richard P]

I have owned a Ruger Mk1 since 1968. It was called the Target Model. I bought it just prior to enactment of GCA'68 and recieved it via the parcel post.
But if I had to choose on reputation without regard of cost I believe I'd go S&W 41.

[darkgael]

William: High Standard.
Note: if you seek out a Connecticut-made H-S, be aware that there were two factories involved, one in Hamden, and the other in East Hartford. The Hamden guns were made during the peak years and represent the best guns that you can buy. The Hartford (East Hartford) guns were made in the period of decline. There are some good East Hartford guns but you just don't know.
Only the guns stamped "Hamden" are dependably fine.
I own a Ruger MK.II also - with the Voquartsen trigger, etc. It's a nice gun but the Victor is the one that goes to the matches.
My own Victor:

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive had most of them including the 41 smith and the most accurate semi auto 22 ive ever owned is my 4 inch bull barrel ruger 22/45. It shoots into one hole at 25 yards with many differnt kinds of ammo. I dont know if its a fluke or not as it does even all the other rugers ive owned but it is hands down more accurate then the 41 i owned.

[SHOOTALL]

I have owned several Rugers , a Browning , A S&W and a Colt Ace for the 1911. Hands down the Ruger GOVT. model ( first one round bbl in blue , first run to the public) was the best . The other rugers i have had were ok but not as good as this one. The Browning was good and close . The ace was a joke as far as group size or maybe pattern would be a better choice of words. The S&W was so-so.