American Classic ll

[coyotejoe]

I ordered one of these at the request of a friend and it arrived yesterday, $445 with shipping. Of course I haven't fired it since it isn't my gun. I did field strip it to clean up the shipping oil. It seems to be pretty well made. The only cosmetic flaw I spotted was the portion of the barrel visible at the ejection port could have been better polished. There were quite a few little pits visible there. Also, I guess they must test fire them with lead bullets since it came with a "pre-leaded" bore. This was the deluxe version with Novak style white dot sights and the absurd beaver tail grip safety which some people seem to think a 1911 needs. I didn't care much for the hammer styling, an oval shaped hollow thumb piece with some silly webbing inside the hollow. They call it a "Commander style" hammer but it doesn't at all resemble the Colt Commander hammer. But these are all styling complaints and I understand that tastes do vary and my own runs more toward traditional than modern.
 It will be a few days before my friend gets over to pick it up, maybe then I can say something about how it shoots.

[ButlerFord45]

Never heard of it.  Gonna need a picture. 

[coyotejoe]

A picture of a 1911 is a picture of a 1911. American Classic Firearms are made in the Philippines as is Rock Island Arsenal but by a different company, Metro Arms. They also make the Armscor brand revolvers.

[Keith L]

No thanks.  I will keep my money in America.

[myronman3]

No thanks.  I will keep my money in America.

atta boy, keith.....

[williamlayton]

You can call it prejudice I guess.
I have no idea how good the steel is in these and I am assuming, also, that they are cast frames and slide----that is what I have heard.
Now, cast is not necessaarly BAD-----or GOOD---Imano, in these instances.
Since Imano(don't know in my grandaughters talk) I wouldn't own one without knowing.
Blessings

[coyotejoe]

No thanks.  I will keep my money in America.

Yep, guns are about the only thing that still are made in America and even most of them are not. I was a bit shocked when a guy showed me his new Springfield Armory 1911 and it said made in Brazil.
Rugers are still made in the U.S.A. but their frames and other parts are cast so I guess Mr. Layton would rule them out as well. That doesn't leave a lot of options for the guy with much less than a thousand bucks to spend. I've never earned union scale so I've never felt the need to apologize for my imported car.

[jhm]

     Coyotejoe I like your statement of not ever earning Union Scale, Me neither I couldnt afford the Pay Cut.   Jim

[myronman3]

ah.... so you are one of those guys.......
   i am so sick of everyone slamming on unions wholesale.   tell ya what....go buy the gun and take your chances.  seeing as how i am a union employee you wouldnt want the benefit of my experience anyway. 

[SHOOTALL]

Quality cost no way around it . Wages are a large part of it no doubt . That said when Wilson Combat will only build on a select few frames and one comes from China and was a low cost gun to start with one has to look hard at union wages when others don't fare so well. That said union labor does not insure quality one only has to look to the post 64 Winchesters to prove that.
 Also Rugers are injected molded not just cast . It gives a multi direction strength vs. a directional strength as in fordgeing .
 Only time will tell if the gun is good or not .

[myronman3]

that is an accurate post, shootall.  
  
   i just get tired of people taking every opportunity to slam on everything union.  
 
  and, the comments werent even about union.... they were about "made in america". 

[williamlayton]

Unions are not all about wage gouging.
They have made quality skills worth their salt.
Men have, not only the right, but responsibility to protect theirownselves from labor bosses who would stake them to the company store.
Cast vs injection molding vs bar stock tooling is an interesting subject.
One must remember that if there is a costsavings means of doing it cheaper and sacrificing quality--it can be done.
One really needs to know what he/she is buying and demand the quality they want.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

that is an accurate post, shootall.  
  
   i just get tired of people taking every opportunity to slam on everything union.  
 
  and, the comments werent even about union.... they were about "made in america". 

Wheather you like unions or not if it was not for them in many cases the safety would be poor and most everyones wages would  be low . What pizzes me off is the crap that came out of the auto plants and winchester to name only a few . They were selling to other Americans and sending junk out the door when they were the highest paid in the world .

[Keith L]

that is an accurate post, shootall.  
  
   i just get tired of people taking every opportunity to slam on everything union.  
 
  and, the comments werent even about union.... they were about "made in america". 

Wheather you like unions or not if it was not for them in many cases the safety would be poor and most everyones wages would  be low . What pizzes me off is the crap that came out of the auto plants and winchester to name only a few . They were selling to other Americans and sending junk out the door when they were the highest paid in the world .

Why do workers get the rap for poor quality when all they can make is determined by the management of the companies they work for?  Management decides what materials to buy, the specifications to manufacture to, and ultimately what to ship to the customer.  And when the only important factor is the immediate bottom line then you get what GM shipped for years.

[Blackhawker]

CoyoteJoe,
I purchased one of these pistols during the fall of last year.  I posted an extensive thread about it.  I had some pretty bad luck with mine right from the start despite the good reports I had heard about a lot of them.  If I can ever find the link, I'll post it here so you can read the drama.  In the end, however, Metro Arms...or the distributor ended up replacing my pistol and I got a brand new one that has worked flawlessly since I've recieved it.  As of now, I've fired over 650 rounds out of it and I seriously cannot think of a time where it has malefunctioned or even hiccupped.  For a mere $405 OTD, I'm nothing more than happy with it.  It's accurate and has thus far fed FMJ, JHP's and recently I've fed it some of my cast reloads.  Not a problem at all!  The only issue I have had with it thus far (fingers crossed) is the rear sight came loose several times and would slide from left to right.  The rear sight is not actually a real Novak sight but a knock-off of a quality version.  Having a set screw in the middle of the base, I decided to loosen the sight, slide it to one side and rub a bit of red locktite on the base of the dovetailing as well as the screw threads.  After at least 300 rounds, it has yet to move.  I think it's on there for good now!

By the way, I thought the webbing in the hammer was strange too....until I realized that it's a letter "M" over an "A".....Metro Arms.  Once I had realized that, now I think it's kinda creative and cool.  

Hope your friend has fun with his/her pistol.  Now that I've got a new one that works, I love mine!

[coyotejoe]

I never intended this to be a debate on unions nor am I trying to sell these guns, just mentioning that they are available and describing what I see. I also need to mention a correction on the price, I forgot that $445 included two boxes of Magtech FMJ ammo so the gun alone was about $410 with shipping. The owner picked it up yesterday and we fired a few rounds. We only fired maybe 20 rounds but within that limited shooting there were no malfunctions. I got five into a group of between 1 1/2 and 2 inches at 25 yards. I consider that to be pretty durn good for a first outing with the cheapest ammo I could find. This was the guy's first centerfire handgun. He's been into traditional muzzleloading for several years and now he's getting into reloading so I gave him an old LEE press and a set of Lyman dies I no longer use. He's going to a gun show today to pick up powder, primers and bullets.

[williamlayton]

AWWWWW-heck fire. I wouldn't be afraid of starting a flame around here. Hell, we will argue about what is eating a frog on the Amazon right now. Nobody will know, TM7 will come up with some conspiracy theory and a bunch of us will just lie and demand to see the evidence.
Blessings

[1911crazy]

Keep us imformed if the classic works out ok.  I need a truck 1911 too(cheap).

I think my next 1911 will be a thompson custom in stainless in 45acp made by Kahr.  Since my AO WW2 copy 1911a1 is so good plus i heard awesome things about there service and repair shop i'm going with them next.  One guy on another forum had problems with his new AO  he sent it back and had it back within a few days all fixed.  They tuned the extractor and they also paid for the shipping both ways too. I made solid decision on two more pistols too.  An RIA 1911 in nickel finish in 45acp and a CZ75 in polished stainless in 9mm luger.

[Blackhawker]

I never intended this to be a debate on unions nor am I trying to sell these guns, just mentioning that they are available and describing what I see. I also need to mention a correction on the price, I forgot that $445 included two boxes of Magtech FMJ ammo so the gun alone was about $410 with shipping. The owner picked it up yesterday and we fired a few rounds. We only fired maybe 20 rounds but within that limited shooting there were no malfunctions. I got five into a group of between 1 1/2 and 2 inches at 25 yards. I consider that to be pretty durn good for a first outing with the cheapest ammo I could find. This was the guy's first centerfire handgun. He's been into traditional muzzleloading for several years and now he's getting into reloading so I gave him an old LEE press and a set of Lyman dies I no longer use. He's going to a gun show today to pick up powder, primers and bullets.

Mine too shoots quite well as far as grouping goes.  I'm pleasently surpized to see it perform as well as my single actions....especially considering the price I paid.

Yes, these things are going for a very low price consdering what you get for the money.  Already, however, I've seen them go up by almost $50.00 in the past six or eight months.  I think the price has leveled off though.

1911crazy, check the MetroArms website.  They too sell a nice stainless model.  Here is the MetroArms web page where you can find a picture of the American Classic II and the other 1911's they sell.  

http://www.americanclassic1911.com/

While I"m at it, here is the link to my original post on the American Classic II.  Now that I read back on what I went through, I can't believe I'm recommending this pistol to anyone.    Well, the story ends well once you read through it.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,186931.0.html

[coyotejoe]

I read your post Blackhawker, quite a hassle you had! First a product that should never have left the factory and really poor customer service. I'm glad it finally worked out for you. The Distributor finally did last what they should have done first, replace the gun with a new one. My friend never had a problem with his (except that he can't shoot a pistol worth a hoot). We even managed to recover all of the brass. That was kind of a pleasant surprise since we were shooting over the hood of my truck parked in tall weeds. When I shot a PSL there I was lucky to find 6 out of 10! I still find an occasional case I fired last fall.  But the .45 dumped them all within about a three foot circle.

[Blackhawker]

I read your post Blackhawker, quite a hassle you had! First a product that should never have left the factory and really poor customer service. I'm glad it finally worked out for you. The Distributor finally did last what they should have done first, replace the gun with a new one. My friend never had a problem with his (except that he can't shoot a pistol worth a hoot). We even managed to recover all of the brass. That was kind of a pleasant surprise since we were shooting over the hood of my truck parked in tall weeds. When I shot a PSL there I was lucky to find 6 out of 10! I still find an occasional case I fired last fall.  But the .45 dumped them all within about a three foot circle.

Really, if it wasn't for the shop owner/manager, I probably would have been stuck with that hunk of junk that they should have never let out of the factory......either that or someone else would have bought it from me on some auction site.  Good reason to be wary of gun auction sites.   

Now that I think of it, I pretty much find most of my brass too...no matter where I'm shooting.  They eject straight out the side and about four feet over to my right.
Hope your friend enjoys the pistol....and hope he learns to shoot better too.   

[BGRooster1]

I've had one for bought a year or so and like it.Why pay three times as much and have to tune it up just because it was made buy a union worker.Part of the reason  this country ........Aw, it don't even pay to continue.

[myronman3]

yup, about the time everyone gets back on subject, someone has to come along and stir the pot.   

[Mikey]

OK, let's get the hay off the union crap.  Unions don't have anything at all to do with the manufacture of a product unless there is a health or safety concern in the manufacturing process.  Unions no longer represent the worker, they represent their own self serving organizations, the union. 

Not that I care, but you cannot blame a union for the manufacturing steps, quality control measures or cost containment measures taken in a manufacturing process.  unions don't give a squat if it is injection molded, cast or milled from bar-stock, they will continue to get their 5 cent dues from each of their members.  The company name, whatever it is, is dependent upon the quality of the product.  unions never gave a squat about quality as thier name is not linked to it - anyone ever heard of the UAW sedan or station wagon - nope, doesn't exist.  unions care only about the power base they can gather from projected membership and what that would enable them in the negotiating field.  when a firm goes down the union blames poor management, not the costs it has saddled on the manufacturer.

I spent 33 years in mandated union shop and I spit every time I hear the word.  unions have outlived their usefullness; they never have and never will guarantee quality in product manufacturing - they have neither the brains, the power base or the capability.  Hasn't anyone ever noticed that the biggest mouths in the unions usually belong to those who couldn't or can't produce or carry their work load.  The concept of 'union label' carries as much weight as vapor.  Union labor made Levis, which doesn't support the 2nd Amendment.  The notion of a union's 'demand' is consistent with wishing in one hand and crapping in the other - you will quickly see which one fills up first and that's where unions have been for the past 40 years.

Here's a lesson in economics - if you can squeeze only so much for a car out of a prospective buyer, and you cannot meet your profit requirements for continuation due to labor demands, and you start turning out crap that people won't buy or drive and you go under and become government funded, the buyer will buy a Toyota and the government winds up supporting the union (notice it is the organization, not the individual member) not the manufacturer.  After all, in this country today, the manufacturer is business and republican;  this government supports the union (democrats) over business. 

I'm tired of hearing all the glowing accolades about unions because it is nothing but hot air.  We own the Phillipines.  We reclaimed them as a Territory at the end of WWII.  I believe the cost of living there is pretty low, which means that produce and manufacturing costs are lower yet that does not translate to quality.  I think I would rather do business in one of our Territories than either new york city, chicago or LA, and certainly not in new orleans.........

I don't care who is union and who is not - keep it the hay out of the discussions.

[Keith L]

I agree with one small part of your post Mikey: that the quality of the goods is dependent on ownership/leadership and not the workers.  If it wasn't for the labor movement many of the things all of us benefit from such as weekends, vacations, safe working conditions etc. would not be the way things are.  I do think unions have lost their way the last few years, and may never have the impact they once did.

Also, no one will be more surprised than the Philippines to find out they are an American territory.  They think they are a constitutional republic, and have elected a president, two houses of congress, and have a supreme court and their own constitution. 

I move we get back on topic, stop discussing unions and politics, and start talking about 1911s again.  Did I say I sure like my Kimber?

[myronman3]

i am with ya kieth, my kimber sure is a fine gun.  i likes it lots.  and so does everyone else that has fired it.   if there is a finer 1911 out there(i am sure there is, but not in my price range), i havent fired it.   i have no idea of what kind of shop kimber is.  it doesnt really matter as i love the pistol and i dig the guns i see them producing.   i am thinking my next gun is going to be a kimber tactical pro or a super carry.    there is concealed carry right across the border, and i hope there will be here too before to long.  time to get me a carry gun.   i have been back and forth between a glock 23 and a chopped kimber; but leaning heavy toward the kimber. 

[Mikey]

Well then, have you seen the pictures of the new Kimber midsize Super Carry Pro? 

[Keith L]

Outstanding!  I have the SIS Custom.

[myronman3]

the bobtail 4 incher?   that is what i was refering to i believe.  i do want a set of crimson trace grips on it, and i think the bobtail thing screws that up; even though i REALLY like the looks of the bobtail. 

[Keith L]

No.  Mine is the full sized model.  I like long barrels, and I don't plan on carrying it.