Author Topic: Decriminalize drugs? `  (Read 3679 times)

0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline WylieKy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
Decriminalize drugs? `
« on: August 15, 2010, 03:28:07 AM »
http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/is-portugals-liberal-drug-policy-a-model-for-us/19591395?test=latestnews

LISBON, Portugal (Aug. 14) -- Ten years ago, Portugal had some 100,000 heroin addicts -- about 1 percent of its entire population. HIV infections from injecting drugs were among the highest in Europe.

Now the addict count has been cut nearly in half. HIV infections from drug use have fallen more than 90 percent. And the policy shift responsible for such a dramatic improvement in Portuguese life is something U.S. lawmakers -- watching an escalating drug war on their southern border -- might consider worthy of some attention: decriminalization.

Ten years ago this summer, Portugal became the first country in Europe to decriminalize all illegal drugs -- marijuana, cocaine, methamphetamine and even heroin. Hefty fines and prison sentences still await drug traffickers and dealers, but users caught with less than a 10-day supply of any drug are no longer considered criminals. Instead, they're referred to a panel comprised of a drug-treatment specialist, a lawyer and a civil servant, who usually recommend treatment -- and pay for it, too. If the users decline treatment and go back to abusing drugs, that's their prerogative...

45 percent of the 100,000 heroin addicts Portugal's Health Ministry recorded in 2000 had by 2008 decided to at least try to quit the habit, without the threat of jail time. And the number of new HIV cases among users fell from 2,508 in the year 2000 to 220 cases in 2008...

The U.S. has long championed a fierce law enforcement policy toward drugs, but it still has some of the highest rates of drug use in the world, and more than a quarter of its prison inmates are behind bars for drug-related offenses. Per capita, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have smoked marijuana...

An interesting read with some of the blurbs.  






This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2010, 03:35:09 AM »
Why waste money on a drug war we can't win.  If they want to OD, let them.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2010, 05:15:10 AM »
I favor state sponsored overdosing of drug dealers and users with lead.
Swingem

Offline Catus Magnus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2010, 08:08:20 AM »
I favor state sponsored overdosing of drug dealers and users with lead.

You want the state to shoot people who use drugs?

Offline Hooker

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1581
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2010, 08:20:25 AM »
Let all those who want to use the stuff have all they want.
Think of it as chlorine for the gene pool.

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
-Mark Twain
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

Offline Squib

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1592
  • Gender: Male
  • G- S- T- and I ain't got time to bleed!
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 09:24:10 AM »
not much different than alcohol:  if they can live a decent life and imbibe on the side, good for them.  if not, then to the gutter they go with organ failure.  their problems, not ours.

we need deregulation of drugs to ONE keep drug costs down for real (medicinal) stuff, TWO to keep our prisons from being overpopulated by people who aren't inherently violent, and THREE because now the government wants to regulate soda and juice for sin tax purposes (just cut off the nanny state power altogether).  ps- I'm not a druggie so it's not personal, I just don't see the point in micro-managing people who aren't going to live a decent life anyways.  maybe some would NOT run with the wrong crowd if they could just go get the stuff from a reputable pharmacist or shop?  wouldn't they want to use new/clean needles instead of dirty/used ones if there wasn't a stigma and legal issues concerning peraphernalia?

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 09:31:44 AM »
I agree, legalize it, regulate it, tax it, and let them buy from the local drug store or liquor store, put dealers behind bars, users into drug rehab.  The cost of free drug rehab would probably be less than the war with overcrowding of prisons. 

Offline MGMorden

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2010, 10:46:07 AM »
I agree.  I'm also torn about "prescription" drugs too.

For example: I've got gout.  I've had gout for 10 years.  I'll likely have gout for the rest of my life.  I need cholchicine and allopurinol - both prescription drugs - for my gout.  I'll be taking these for the rest of my life (and they are non addictive and can't get you high). 

Why in the world do I have to go to my doctor once every year to keep getting permission to buy my medicine?

Offline yellowtail3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh father of the four winds, fill my sails!
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 11:22:18 AM »
I agree.  I'm also torn about "prescription" drugs too.

For example: I've got gout.  I've had gout for 10 years.  I'll likely have gout for the rest of my life.  I need cholchicine and allopurinol - both prescription drugs - for my gout.  ....Why in the world do I have to go to my doctor once every year to keep getting permission to buy my medicine?

Sorry to hear it. You have to go to the doc because their guild wants the money. And your condition might change.

LEGALIZATION: Do it, yesterday. The War on (some) Drug is a disaster, hugely damaging to individuals and our freedoms as Americans, and stays in place because many benefit from it. The partial list: various law enforcement agencies, various gov't functionaries, lawyers, prison industries, testing/support companies, and of course - don't forget! - gangsters here & abroad. 

waaaay too many people make bank of the Way It Is Now - it's be hard to change. But worth it.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline nhnef

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
  • Versatile Hunter
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2010, 11:32:24 AM »
Coming from the "Live free or Die" state I too wish we could finally just decriminalize the stuff.  I've known a ton of guys who lead very productive lives have children, pay taxes.  Hell one is a school principal!  They all smoke pot on occasion recreationally like anyone else would grab a beer.  They don't have hangovers the next day, they have a mild buzz...and they help the economy by buying cheetos and pizzas :D

Seriously...We should start with Marijuana at the very least.  We have a crazed Police Dept here that recently broke down the door and ransacked the wrong house because of a tip that there may be a marijuana plant inside.  The building was owned by a friend of mine and it is a rental property.  He needed to get a new door and help the tenant who then moved out and the PD is still arguing that they were right to do it.


Offline Heather

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1471
  • Gender: Female
    • mymartialartsplus.com
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2010, 02:09:41 PM »
Well this may come as a shock to everyone, but I believe people should be free to make their own decisions.  If they want to kill themselves with drugs who are we to stop them?  I am a firm believer in natural selection and survival of the fittest.  Let em die out before they breed!  I know that seems heartless, but ya can't really help those who won't help themselves! 

Heather
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
www.mymartialartsplus.com

A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline Catus Magnus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2010, 02:25:38 PM »
Well this may come as a shock to everyone, but I believe people should be free to make their own decisions.  If they want to kill themselves with drugs who are we to stop them?
how about... if they choose to indulge in little weed (or single-malt scotch, or pale ale, or a cigarette) - who are we to tell them what to do?
Quote
I am a firm believer in natural selection and survival of the fittest.
I am a firm believer in free men being free, rather than subject to the preferences of their fellows, enforced by the power of the state at point of a gun (generally speaking)
Quote
 Let em die out before they breed!
Too late; many of us already have children, and we love them. My youngest is asking for a pink rifle... I'm going to try to talk her into walnut & blue steel (or maybe we'll settle on birch)


Offline Heather

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1471
  • Gender: Female
    • mymartialartsplus.com
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2010, 02:39:40 PM »
Well this may come as a shock to everyone, but I believe people should be free to make their own decisions.  If they want to kill themselves with drugs who are we to stop them?
how about... if they choose to indulge in little weed (or single-malt scotch, or pale ale, or a cigarette) - who are we to tell them what to do?
Quote
I am a firm believer in natural selection and survival of the fittest.
I am a firm believer in free men being free, rather than subject to the preferences of their fellows, enforced by the power of the state at point of a gun (generally speaking)
Quote
 Let em die out before they breed!
Too late; many of us already have children, and we love them. My youngest is asking for a pink rifle... I'm going to try to talk her into walnut & blue steel (or maybe we'll settle on birch)



I am in complete agreement with ya sir!  I believe that you should be able to do as you choose.  If it is weed, heroine, or cocaine,(LOVE ME SOME SPELL CHECK) it makes no difference to me.  My 'let them die before they breed' comment was probably a little harsh and should have been been specified to drug addicts and habitual users who let it dictate their lives.  Ya know the folks that only care about their next high and couldn't care less about their kids or anything else for that matter!  I personally believe that it is safer to smoke a little weed than drink a few beers, but that is my opinion and we all have them.  I DO NOT feel that it is the government's or anyone else's business what we decide to do to our bodies!

Heather
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
www.mymartialartsplus.com

A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline goofyoldfart

  • grumpy old fart as well as goofy old fart.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 333
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 12:13:08 AM »
Hey CM: what's wrong with a pink rifle ??? quit being a Chauvinist ;D It's fer her, not you. Now me, maybe puce or Paisley. ::) ::) ;D

Offline Old Fart

  • Intergalactic Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (77)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3851
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 04:27:32 AM »
My biggest concern would be me not being strapped with making sure they die peacefully at tax payers expense.
I figure if someone is bent on killing themself, they will.
I just don't want to have to pay the mdeical bills for them on life support if they don't get it done.
"All my life I've had a bad case of the Fred's. Fredrick Vanderbilt taste on a Fred Sanford budget." CR
Lifetime/Endowment/Patron NRA Member.
Second Amendment Foundation, www.saf.org - Life Member

Offline beerbelly

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2010, 05:12:54 AM »
I am not for decriminalize, I am for legalizing the stuff. That is the only way you get the crooks out of it. If folks want to kill them self’s with it go to it!
                      Beerbelly

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31302
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2010, 05:26:04 AM »
  A couple points;

1) If they want to use drugs and kill themselves..but don't expect the taxpayer to fund their mistakes with medical care.

2) Drug users as well as drunks sometimes kill innocent people..I would rather have a hundred thirsty drunks or quivering addicts than a single innocent person maimed or dead.

       Before you comment, I'm not in favor of the drug alcohol either, but it's already legal. I just wish people were capable of savoring life without mind-benders...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2010, 05:31:01 AM »
That's just what we need.................a couple million more dumbed-down loosers in the voting booth.


Deo duce, ferro comitante
With God as my leader and my sword as my companion

Offline Heather

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1471
  • Gender: Female
    • mymartialartsplus.com
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2010, 05:32:39 AM »
That's just what we need.................a couple million more dumbed-down loosers in the voting booth.




They are already voting or not voting(Depending on their DOC), and I don't see that their drug use will change weather legal or not. 
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
www.mymartialartsplus.com

A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2010, 06:08:09 AM »
The operative word in that statement was more


I'm speaking of additional morons.


Deo duce, ferro comitante
With God as my leader and my sword as my companion

Offline Dweezil

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 126
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2010, 01:40:42 PM »
I agree.  I'm also torn about "prescription" drugs too.

For example: I've got gout.  I've had gout for 10 years.  I'll likely have gout for the rest of my life.  I need cholchicine and allopurinol - both prescription drugs - for my gout.  I'll be taking these for the rest of my life (and they are non addictive and can't get you high). 

Why in the world do I have to go to my doctor once every year to keep getting permission to buy my medicine?

In your specific case:  probably because both drugs are fairly hard on the liver and kidneys so routine renal/hepatic testing is in order to ensure they aren't causing damage. Just because a drug is non-addictive doesn't mean it's completely benign.   What's ironic is most successful, fatal overdoses are done with tylenol...which is available over the counter. Usually a teenager making a "suicide gesture" to manipulate parents, discovering, too late, that they have caused irreversible liver damage.

Offline yellowtail3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh father of the four winds, fill my sails!
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2010, 04:16:34 PM »
The operative word in that statement was more


I'm speaking of additional morons.

What makes them morons - drug usage? Some drug usage? All drug usage? Alcohol usage, too, maybe? Cigs? Are smokers... morons?

Or just those doing what you don't personally approve of? Fill us in...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Squib

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1592
  • Gender: Male
  • G- S- T- and I ain't got time to bleed!
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2010, 04:25:11 PM »
yellowtail, you know.  everyone who doesn't fit the conservative ideal of all american is wrong.  that's why it's illegal  :o

Offline Oldshooter

  • GBO subscriber and supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6426
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2010, 05:24:49 PM »
Decriminalize, tax and restrict welfare and medical care to those that can pass a drug screen.

The people are already aware that they can vote themselves money(congress already does it), its the beginning of the end of the republic.

“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2010, 05:34:00 PM »
Quote
My 'let them die before they breed' comment was probably a little harsh and should have been been specified to drug addicts and habitual users who let it dictate their lives.  Ya know the folks that only care about their next high and couldn't care less about their kids or anything else for that matter!



HEATHER. I don't see it as harsh at all. The folks you describe are of no value to society and contribute nothing. Every time I hear of a meth lab blowing up and killing the ones running it I figure the gene pool got a cleansing. Meth was rampant around here, families destroyed. Our county sheriff really clamped down. I'm sure it's still around but he really made a difference. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline yellowtail3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh father of the four winds, fill my sails!
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2010, 05:44:51 PM »
The folks you describe are of no value to society and contribute nothing.
Hmmm... are there any drugs you approve of, Mr. Powderman? Just wonderin'...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline torpedoman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2574
  • Gender: Male
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2010, 06:24:51 PM »
many years ago i fragmented a disc and did a lot of nerve damage in the process. The disc was fixed noting can be done with the nerve damage that causes spasms and leg and foot cramps, the doctor told me that if i took the prescription drugs as directed that i would need a liver transplant in 10 years max. The other choice was to burn the nerve so that you are numb from the waist down. His other option was try grass when the spasms get bad. Let me know what your pick would be of the options.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline WylieKy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2010, 07:14:16 PM »
  A couple points;

1) If they want to use drugs and kill themselves..but don't expect the taxpayer to fund their mistakes with medical care.

2) Drug users as well as drunks sometimes kill innocent people..I would rather have a hundred thirsty drunks or quivering addicts than a single innocent person maimed or dead.


Accidents from marijuana usage are fairly rare, especially when compared to alcohol.



I just wish people were capable of savoring life without mind-benders...


I'm capable of savoring life without many of it's pleasures.  I could live on gruel, water, and vitamin supplements.  I'd prefer to have a nice rare ribeye every now and again, though.  Same thing with marijuana and alcohol, and a couple of the other mid line drugs.  The occasional, responsible, use does not indicate the inability to enjoy oneself or life without them.  Now a person who has steak every day and washes it down with 6 glasses of soda and 4 candy bars has a developing health problem.  Use and abuse are two totally separate things.

I'll say one thing.... The day I NEED anything, be it a candy bar, beer, shot, joint, whatever.... is the day I'll NEVER touch the thing again.  It's all in my signature...  "This that I do, I do by my own free will."
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline Squib

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1592
  • Gender: Male
  • G- S- T- and I ain't got time to bleed!
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2010, 07:23:45 PM »
torpedoman, I had a buddy that did that instead of taking lyrica and a myriad of other drugs for some disease he had... can't remember the name right now.  soft tissue disease, makes people hurt a lot.  fibromyalgia I think.

he smoked and the pain went away- before that he was drinking incessantly and that wasted him away, all the smoking did was make him goofier.

Offline yellowtail3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh father of the four winds, fill my sails!
Re: Decriminalize drugs? `
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2010, 09:29:49 PM »
many years ago i fragmented a disc and did a lot of nerve damage in the process. The disc was fixed noting can be done with the nerve damage that causes spasms and leg and foot cramps, the doctor told me that if i took the prescription drugs as directed that i would need a liver transplant in 10 years max. The other choice was to burn the nerve so that you are numb from the waist down. His other option was try grass when the spasms get bad. Let me know what your pick would be of the options.
My pick? I'd get a vaporizer, and vaporize a little grass; small amounts can do wonders for pain, and give a modest buzz & uplift in outlook. This would not please the nanny-staters or the pharma people, but it would be a good choice, I think.

It's a freakin' PLANT with some good uses - God put it here - and some people want using it to be a morality issue & crime, enforced by the power of the state. Shame.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.