Decriminalize drugs? `

[MGMorden]

  You may say "it's only one death" tell that to the child's parents ! surely the single death  is more  than we need! sounds like you don't get it yet..need more examples?

You do realize that is the exact - and I do mean EXACT - argument put forth by a ton of gun-grabbers as solid evidence as to why we should outlaw guns right?

Newsflash: people will die in this world.  People will have accidents.  Some really bad stuff will happen.  However there are two types of people in this world: a) the type that accepts this as an unfortunate but inescapable truth, and moves on, and b) those who seek to react at any tragedy with legislation.  They want to "make sure this doesn't happen again".

The thing is, group b is on a fools errand.  No matter what they do, bad things will continue to happen because that's life.  All they do is pile an ever growing number of laws onto the rest of us that do nothing but further errode our own free will.

[Squib]

  You may say "it's only one death" tell that to the child's parents ! surely the single death  is more  than we need! sounds like you don't get it yet..need more examples?

You do realize that is the exact - and I do mean EXACT - argument put forth by a ton of gun-grabbers as solid evidence as to why we should outlaw guns right?

Newsflash: people will die in this world.  People will have accidents.  Some really bad stuff will happen.  However there are two types of people in this world: a) the type that accepts this as an unfortunate but inescapable truth, and moves on, and b) those who seek to react at any tragedy with legislation.  They want to "make sure this doesn't happen again".

The thing is, group b is on a fools errand.  No matter what they do, bad things will continue to happen because that's life.  All they do is pile an ever growing number of laws onto the rest of us that do nothing but further errode our own free will.

SUICIDE IS ILLEGAL!!! just remember how far the "nanny's" will go

[williamlayton]

IG
You have presented a forum on all accounts of why one should not use MJ. What is the point?
What are you suggesting to contain this epidemic?
I am suggesting that it is less lethal in any ramification than Spirits.
We sure have not stopped the sale of spirits.
What I am saying is what it is and used in spite of what you say is wrong with it.
NOW, I think a lot of what opponents say to discourage its use is a bunch of malarky.
I will tell you that a lot of things we do every day are more hazadous to us than MJ---and some of them are done dead solid sober.
The reality of it is--it is what it is. It is here to stay. If it is here to stay--what is your plan?
Blessings

[beerbelly]

Same thing with marijuana and alcohol, and a couple of the other mid line drugs.  

I wasn't talking about OD-ing on pot, I was referring to those other mid-line drugs you said you do. By the way I have never known a pot smoker that just smoked pot. Everyone of them used  other drugs.
   I know some where out there is a pure pot smoker, but I'll bet they are few and far in between.
   Like I said I don't care if you use. I wish they would legalize it. They could make it legal put a fairly heavy tax on it and it would still be far cheaper than it is from the crooks. It would help the deficit and likely get rid of a lot of dope heads by way of OD. A win ,win any way you look at it.
                                       Beerbelly

[yellowtail3]

Same thing with marijuana and alcohol, and a couple of the other mid line drugs.  

I wasn't talking about OD-ing on pot, I was referring to those other mid-line drugs you said you do. By the way I have never known a pot smoker that just smoked pot. Everyone of them used  other drugs.

Beer drinkers, too, were they? Figures.

I've been doing a little research, I think that ironglow just might be right about the lethal hazard that marijuana poses. We would all do well to educate ourselves, before advocating legalization; one could start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLLLTntnqjk

[williamlayton]

Yellowtail
I will ask you the same question.
Do you have a plan?
Put 'em all in jail is not a plan--it is subjigation to anothers will--just because.
You still have not stopped it from being.
Let's do the same with all obese people--they present as much risk to theirownselves.
Are ya'll trying to protect people from theirownselves?
Are you wanting to stop stuff from happening?
Blessings

[MGMorden]

Yellowtail
I will ask you the same question.
Do you have a plan?
Put 'em all in jail is not a plan--it is subjigation to anothers will--just because.
You still have not stopped it from being.
Let's do the same with all obese people--they present as much risk to theirownselves.
Are ya'll trying to protect people from theirownselves?
Are you wanting to stop stuff from happening?
Blessings

will - I think yellowtail was being sarcastic.  The video he linked to was "Reefer madness", which is an old, old video largely ridiculed in modern times for presenting a completley skewed and inaccurate picture of the effects of marijuana.

[yellowtail3]

Yellowtail
I will ask you the same question.
Do you have a plan?

Well, I can come up with one real fast!

Put 'em all in jail is not a plan--it is subjigation to anothers will--just because.

I think we ought to de-fund the DEA. I think that MJ should be legal for adults to use. I think that LEO orgs across the nation should do something useful with their time - like solve property crimes, maybe, and violent crimes? - instead of going after drug war money and drug seizure loot like a bunch of damned highwaymen and pirates.

I think the War on (some) Drugs has been an expensive catastrophe, and we oughta take a clue from our experience with Prohibition, and give it up. It has resulted in the militarization of our police forces, and diminution of our civil rights. So far as taxing it goes... I see no reason why the state should benefit from someone else's labor.

The state, in taxing things, is no better than the mob in shaking down businesses for 'protection money' - "we'll let you operate and not burn you down/kill/imprison you, if you'll give us a cut!"

will - I think yellowtail was being sarcastic.  The video he linked to was "Reefer madness", which is an old, old video largely ridiculed in modern times for presenting a completley skewed and inaccurate picture of the effects of marijuana.

Yeah, but it's fun to watch, and I think it might be where ironglow gets some of his info...

[WylieKy]

Same thing with marijuana and alcohol, and a couple of the other mid line drugs.  

 I was referring to those other mid-line drugs you said you do. By the way I have never known a pot smoker that just smoked pot. Everyone of them used  other drugs.
 

I guess I misspoke there.  I was putting the other, mid-line drugs in the same category as pot, but going back and rereading I could see where it looks like I meant I use them too.  Unless you count alcohol, I don't use any other drugs, not even cigarettes (although I do enjoy a rare, as in 1 every 6 months or so, cigar or pipe).  I did acid 1x in college and it was pretty miserable.  I did mushrooms 1x and for the life of me can't figure out why people enjoying puking, but to each their own.  I did X several times with my X-wife when we were young and in college and have nothing bad to say about it (other than...WOW), but haven't touched it in 12 years or so.  Never done anything else, and don't really feel the desire to, even if it were legal.


Oh, and yellowtail.... that reffer madness post was a thing of beauty.

[williamlayton]

Well, hell, I got got again.
I like Yellowtails answer toa plan---"well I can comeup with one real fast."
Blessings

[ironglow]

Some folks keep coming up with the "alcohol is worse" argument..which I agree with, so it is a moot point. So alcohol is legal and we have a chemical which causes myriad problems...so why legalize a weed that brings even more problems?
 
   Yes it's true, if we legalized Marijuana and other drugs, we could save the money not spent on the DEA!

     On the other hand, if we legalized robbery, rape, extortion, burglary, murder, fraud and any other crime categories...we could save billions now thrown away on prisons, courts, judges and  law enforcement agencies. Hey; we could dry up the lawyers!

      Nope; guess there are just some who need the stuff and some who don't.

[yellowtail3]

Yes it's true, if we legalized Marijuana and other drugs, we could save the money not spent on the DEA!

juxtaposed with...

On the other hand, if we legalized robbery, rape, extortion, burglary, murder, fraud and any other crime categories...we could save billions now thrown away on prisons, courts, judges and  law enforcement agencies.

Somebody's been getting their info with sources on par with Reefer Madness.

Nope; guess there are just some who need the stuff and some who don't.

I suppose the same could be said of cigars, rifles, V8 Mustangs, and rare steak; thank goodness we don't use desire for those to bolster power of the state at the expense of our citizens' rights and freedoms.

so why legalize a weed that brings even more problems?

because it doesn't cause near as many problems its prohibition does, and because it is none of the gubmint's business what a free man drinks, smokes, or grows in his yard (or house). Or shouldn't be.

[ShadowMover]

I don't know if anybody else addressed the corruption and money behind illegal drugs.  Making the sale of a substance illegal gives a monopoly to the illegal sellers, who then use the money to buy control of police, judges, and anybody else who will take the money.  I contend the use of the drugs by people will be limited by their own will, conscience and family. If they don't, they suffer. Certain jobs should only be held by sober and drug free individuals. These people could be tested to insure they don't use. Health insurance might also be priced accordingly. Put the enforcement onto the individual. In short, I agree with most here.

[WylieKy]

     On the other hand, if we legalized robbery, rape, extortion, burglary, murder, fraud and any other crime categories...we could save billions now thrown away on prisons, courts, judges and  law enforcement agencies. Hey; we could dry up the lawyers!

Let's see.... Robbery=hurting someone else.  Rape=hurting someone else.  Extortion=hurting someone else.  Murder=hurting someone else. Fraud=hurting someone else

Smoking a joint=hurting yourself (debatable on how much harm is actually done.  When in moderation I'd say less than talking on a cell phone.)

However,  Smoking a joint+driving=hurting someone else.  Being high on the job in certain industries=hurting someone else.  Not taking proper care of your children=hurting someone else.  So, you would put pretty much put the same restrictions on pot as you do alcohol, legal opiates, and strong cold medicine.

 

[ironglow]

 

[beerbelly]

Let's see about hurting some one else. I have watched dope turn your 14 and 15 year old daughters into hard working whores and your teenaged son's into inmates in prison. For stealing and robbing to get the money for drugs. But hey, drugs are a victim less crime! BS!
                                      Beerbelly

[MGMorden]

Let's see about hurting some one else. I have watched dope turn your 14 and 15 year old daughters into hard working whores and your teenaged son's into inmates in prison. For stealing and robbing to get the money for drugs. But hey, drugs are a victim less crime! BS!
                                      Beerbelly

Those are secondary things.  Tear jerking on what "might" happen is a pointless slippery slope argument.  You might as well be Sarah Brady parading around about how "I've seen our innocent children mowed down by assault weapons.  I've seen little old ladys shot cold dead in back alleys.   I've seen an honest family left riddled with holes!  Guns don't harm anyone?  BS".  The fact is that those are SEPARATE CRIMES.  Some people steal because they want money.  Be that for drugs, food, action figures from wal-mart, whatever.  It doesn't matter, because stealing is wrong.  We might as well outlaw hamburgers because someone who REALLY LIKES them might steal or become a whore to support their habit. 

THIS is one of the key issues that gets people pointing over here and saying "right wingers" with a demeaning tone, because it's HYPOCRITICAL.  Somehow on the gun issue we're supposed to accept that it's a personal freedom, none of anyone else's business, and that if people commit crimes then that's irrelevant because those crimes are already crimes.  With drugs though?  OMG they're gonna make sweet little Annie a whore out of the clear blue and Jimmy is gonna go stealing lawnmowers which he NEVER would have done otherwise . . . yeah right.

Few people anymore want freedom.  That want their version of "raht and wrong" enforced down to the letter.  Doesn't matter how much it steps on other peoples freedoms because they don't care about those things hence they become irrelevant.  They sure don't mind whining up a storm as soon as someone else comes into power and starts to enforce THEIR differing version of "raht and wrong".  If more people supported actual freedoms instead of a dogma masquerading as freedom then we wouldn't have as much of a problem regardless.

[yellowtail3]

We might as well outlaw hamburgers because someone who REALLY LIKES them might steal or become a whore to support their habit.

quiet down, or someone will try...

THIS is one of the key issues that gets people pointing over here and saying "right wingers" with a demeaning tone, because it's HYPOCRITICAL.

Yep.

Somehow on the gun issue we're supposed to accept that it's a personal freedom, none of anyone else's business, and that if people commit crimes then that's irrelevant because those crimes are already crimes.  With drugs though?  OMG they're gonna make sweet little Annie a whore out of the clear blue and Jimmy is gonna go stealing lawnmowers which he NEVER would have done otherwise . . . yeah right.

Yep.

Few people anymore want freedom.  That want their version of "raht and wrong" enforced down to the letter.  Doesn't matter how much it steps on other peoples freedoms because they don't care about those things hence they become irrelevant.  They sure don't mind whining up a storm as soon as someone else comes into power and starts to enforce THEIR differing version of "raht and wrong".  If more people supported actual freedoms instead of a dogma masquerading as freedom then we wouldn't have as much of a problem regardless.

Amen, brother ~

[Squib]

MGMorden thumbs up

[WylieKy]

Let's see about hurting some one else. I have watched dope turn your 14 and 15 year old daughters into hard working whores and your teenaged son's into inmates in prison. For stealing and robbing to get the money for drugs. But hey, drugs are a victim less crime! BS!
                                      Beerbelly

This is going to be a bit unsavory for some because I know a few people here have had wayward children that used drugs as their crutch to be bad people, but here we go.

A whore is a whore because (a.) her daddy didn't love her and show her how a woman should be treated (b.) she is fundamentally broke on some level and just wants to be a whore (there were whores WAY before there were drugs) and/or (c.) she really needs money and is willing to do whatever it takes to get some food in her and her families belly. 

Drugs are an excuse to be bad/evil/unsavory.... Kind of like "I rape little boys because that priest touched me," or "My ancestors built this country as slaves so I shouldn't have to work, Y'all support me," or "My daddy used to beat and choke me so I'ma shake my baby to death." 
Nope... not how it works. 
STOP GIVING BAD PEOPLE REASONS TO KEEP BEING BAD.  The drugs didn't make them to it, the priest didn't make them do it, their daddy didn't make them do it...THEY CHOSE TO DO IT and should suffer the consequences of their actions  and own up to the guilt of the damage they have CHOSEN to do to others. Read my signature.

[beerbelly]

BS the drugs do make them do it! An addict will do any thing to get a fix. I suppose those that OD might have died in an auto wreck, but they didn't. They died of over dose.
                   Beerbelly

[southernutah]

most people never see the distruction the illegal dope growers leave behind. They tear up the forests for their groves, bring in miles of pipe and leave  piles of trash. They use streams for irrigation, washing and sure their sewer as I have not seen any toliet areas. they make camp sites and make shift kitchens. There are old car batteries and propane tanks.  Imagine 6 dump trucks full of dope and trash to clean up just one of the messes. Street value in the millions. So far no one has been shot at.  Wake up America.............BTW most can't speak English

[yellowtail3]

most people never see the distruction the illegal dope growers leave behind.

Well, geez... let folks grow their own in their own houses and backyards and whatnot - without fear that state stormtroopers are going to kick their doors in and shoot them? - and you wouldn't have that kind of problem.

Wake up America......

excellent advice.

[WylieKy]

An addict will do any thing to get a fix.

Addicts are addicts.  They'll get addicted to anything from gambling to internet porn to drugs to collecting kitties.  Fun thing about marijuana.  It's not addictive in anything resembling a reasonable, responsible amount, and has little to no physical withdraw.  Anyone who is addicted to marijuana is one of those broken souls who will turn to what ever rush or high they can find to fill the bottomless pit in the center of their being. 

[southernutah]

[/quote]

Addicts are addicts. .  Fun thing about marijuana.  It's not addictive in anything resembling a reasonable, responsible amount, and has little to no physical withdraw.   
[/quote]

Don't really see any fun. If you like to party and waste away your life with no cares  it is your choise but making it seem unimportant to justify the use is wrong for me. Here try this it's cool.......just braindead and a start to bigger and worse to come. I watched a cousin try to throw away his career and drive a lot of miles for a little pot.

[yellowtail3]

Addicts are addicts. .  Fun thing about marijuana.  It's not addictive in anything resembling a reasonable, responsible amount, and has little to no physical withdraw.

A reasonable conclusion, with the important advantage of being true.

Don't really see any fun.

Alright...

If you like to party...

Eh, we probably ought to define party, but go ahead... 

and waste away your life with no cares 

...I'm guessing that was your definition of those who like to party, or... was that a pejorative & swipe at those who like to partake?

I watched a cousin try to throw away his career and drive a lot of miles for a little pot.

threw his career away, did he? How so?

[WylieKy]

I watched a cousin try to throw away his career and drive a lot of miles for a little pot.

Why would you watch that? He's family, so why didn't you get involved in his life, see where his malcontent lay.  Find out why he would rather sit around and be high than be a responsible, productive member of society.

THIS is the problem.  People don't want to take care of their own family because it is unsavory and uncomfortable and inconvenient.  The Government should not be policing our sons and daughters and cousins.  WE should.  BUT, it's much easier to sit back, kick the feet up, put on an episode of American Idol and say, "The drugs got him.  Darn them drugs.  Pass the popcorn."

When use morphs into abuse, it is the family's job to step in and get them help or help them yourselves. Abuse is NEVER about the drug, it is about escape.  Find out from what they are trying to escape, fix that, and BAM...broken soul salvaged, family saved.  Try it sometime.

[beerbelly]

Dope heads will rationalize away anything to say it is ok for them to do their dope.
                        Beerbelly

[MGMorden]

Dope heads will rationalize away anything to say it is ok for them to do their dope.
                        Beerbelly

Well they/we're not all dope heads (I can honestly say that I only drink alcohol, and not to excess), but they're the only ones putting forth rationale period.  You keep coming back with 1 line rhetoric, name calling, and emotionally charged nonsense hoping to convince someone.

Most of us learned in the 3rd grade that calling someone a "stupid head" didn't win an argument.  The "dope head" tactic isn't working any better for you.

[MGMorden]

I watched a cousin try to throw away his career and drive a lot of miles for a little pot.

I've got an uncle who threw his life away as a drunk.  He's crippled from having an accident while DUI.  Spends what little income he gets on more booze.  We often joke that he's probably just got a bottle of Maddog sitting where his liver used to be, but somehow he's still kicking.

That said, I enjoy a drink myself, but I'm responsible about it.  I have a good career, and when I drink it's on the weekend, with friends, and with a designated driver lined up (when the plan isn't just to stay at the friend's house where we're hanging out overnight anyways).  

Some people have addictive personalities; they're going to destroy themselves some way or another regardless, because it's their nature.  That doesn't mean that many others can't be responsible.  

It'd be akin to outlawing guns because some idiot shoots himself.  Everyone isn't like that, and those that were going to shoot themselves would have eventually messed up with something else because carelessness was in their nature.