7.62x39 Handi Accuracy

[bikerbeans]

Hi All,

Would like to hear folks thoughts on why this Commie round shoots so well in a Handi Rifle.  I am getting ready to start working up hunting loads for my '06 shorty and just curious why the 39MM 30 cal. round would shoot better out of a handi than the '06.  Maybe I will learn a little something that will help me get my gun to perform better.

BB

[gendoc]

BB, i don't know why.... out of 28 handi's i have, the 39 is the most accurate.
it consistantly puts them in the same hole with proper cooling time and my handloads
@100yrds.  i wish i could answer your question "why" 

[petemi]

Tom, same a gendoc, I only have a couple of hundred rounds through mine, but it's a heck of a lot more accurate than I am, and that's with cheap junk Russian steel cased ammo.....oh, also, no "failed to fire".  I've got so many "Favorite" Handis now, I can't keep track of them

It's the Russian/American Single Shot SKS.

I was not overly impressed with my '06, I don't know, just not my favorite rifle.  It's probably as accurate as I can shoot.

Pete

[fredster22]

 Tom,
       Like Doc I can't tell really why it is as it is. I shoot the same load as John and it is extremely
accurate but is using a 308 bullet. My bore diameter is 309.5. Yet I get  almost the same accuracy
and sometime the same out of some factory( not military surplus, I won't use it ) commercial loads
and cast bullets loaded to reasonable levels. Maybe its the case capacity/size in relation to bore size
but I know it works for me. Haven't played with 06 sub-loads in years but found when I did IMR 4759
worked well. Fred

[GrampaMike]

Same here.

The 7.62x39mm is the most accurate Handi I have.

Isn't the 6mm PPC and 22 PPC cases formed from the 7.62x39mm case?  Or was that another similar case?
And they have a good rep for accuracy.

Mike

[quickdtoo]

Would like to hear folks thoughts on why this Commie round shoots so well in a Handi Rifle. 

Maybe cuz it's a 30-30 Wantabe, we all know the 30-30 is one of, if not the most accurate Handi chamberings.   

Tim

[fredster22]

 Not to question but has there ever been a serious comparison ever done between the two?
 I would like to know as I love them both and am not a fan of high powered cartridges it would
 interesting,(the 30-30 would get the nod as a  deer killer) but which would prove more accurate?
   Setting aside what is more american or commie as Tom says?  Fred

[gendoc]

hey fred, i'd make that comparison from the test cell, but i don't own a 30 anymore in handi.
i seen no need for one. i have 4 in other brand shooters tho.
and i wud'nt like to show up my higher priced shooters with the $200 39 

[bikerbeans]

So, the 7.62 39 accuracy appears to be a mystery.  But if the 30-30 and the 7.62 39 are both very accurate then maybe we be talkin' about case size, load density and velocity?  Aren't both the 30-30 and 39 running bullets in the 2,200 to 2,500 FPS range?  30-30 with a bit heavier bullet.  Okay, lacking any real insight or information that would hinder my experimentation I guess I am going to load up the .308" 165 grain Speer Spitzers I just bought to around 2,200 to 2,500 FPS and see what the '06 will do.  Good thing I sold both of the handi 30-30 barrels I acquired this year before I found out they are the most accurate Handi offering.  No complaints, the folks I sold the 30-30 barrels to are both better shots than I am anyway.

Grandpa Mike,  the 6MM PPC brass can be bought but it can also be fire formed from 7.62 x 39 brass.   Not sure about the 22 PPC.

BB

[gcrank1]

It may have something to do with the chamber. Who knows how many barrels they did in 30-06 before they tossed a reamer. The limited number of '39s may have meant a better job, or maybe the dated style of '06 reamer compared to the '39 style does the improvement? There are so many variables, but if you have a decently bored and rifled barrel, it comes down to the chamber (given the platform is sound, of course).

[ironglow]

Isn't there some problem with the 7.62X39 in that some bullets run from something like .309 , and others to .311?

[Oldfenderguy]

I am interested in picking up a couple of Handi-Rifles, one being a 45-70, but I am also interested in the 7.62x39.

I also own a couple of AKM47's, and a very large supply of Russian 'Silver Bear' steel cased ammunication. 

The only reason I would want one in 7.62x39 is if it was able to fire the .311 steel case ammo, but I have read of some problems with misfires because of the hard primers.  Also, I'm not sure of the bore diameter of the 7.62x39 Handi, but I assume that it is probably .308?  I wonder if this would case a problem when firing the jacketed .311 rounds....

But anyway, do any of you that own one of these in 7.62x39 ever shoot the steel case 'miitary' ammunication.  If so have you experienced and problems?

Thanks for the additional information.

[myarmor]

Ok I have to step in here... am I the only one who remembers the 7.62x39 Handi's as being poorly accurate and having too much headspace Why else did they stop making them other than people shooting Mil.Crap ammo out in them. Just like the 35 whelens that were poorly done.
I had one and only with every 3 hammer falls did the ammo go off, and NOT Mil. Spec ammo mind you, Only good Hunting 7.62 ammo. Perhaps you guys lucked up on some of the last of the line barrels that were done right but please don't hype them up too much for what they aren't.
I personally wish they offered them again, it's a really cool cal to play with, but done right this time 




-Aaron

[petemi]

But anyway, do any of you that own one of these in 7.62x39 ever shoot the steel case 'miitary' ammunication.  If so have you experienced and problems?

Thanks for the additional information.

I had a case stick after about 100 rounds from lacquer build up in the chamber.  I was shooting a hot barrel.  I have never experienced a misfire with mine using steel cased Russian ammo.

Here's a picture of my Russian/American.

Pete



Pete

[quickdtoo]

Aaron makes a good point, and perhaps, just like the 38-55 Target, once they got the bugs worked out with the chamber issue, but they still discontinued it due to all the complaints, there's no getting around that. Personally, other than the collectors value of a discontined H&R chambering, I have no use for a 30-30 lite.
 
Tim

[Flynmoose]

Somewhere in GBO I read about pulling the steel bullets from the Russ ammo
and substituting regular 308 diameter bullets. I have alot of Wolf steel case
ammo and an Encore 7.62x39 barrel. I don't hunt but ring gongs and this combo
is a keeper! I do have a Handi 223 and always check the Handi forum, the BEST!

[moorepower]

This is the parent case for the 22 and 6mm PPC's , the most accurate rounds in the world.

[myarmor]

This is the parent case for the 22 and 6mm PPC's , the most accurate rounds in the world.

True and the Most accurate rounds on the planet.... just not in a Handi. Bolt guns, but not in a Handi.
Given the 308 and a couple others in a tuned rifle

[ironglow]

Aaron makes a good point, and perhaps, just like the 38-55 Target, once they got the bugs worked out with the chamber issue, but they still discontinued it due to all the complaints, there's no getting around that. Personally, other than the collectors value of a discontined H&R chambering, I have no use for a 30-30 lite.
 
Tim

     I tend to agree with Tim; get the grand old 30/30 barrel and if you want the equivalent of 7.62X39..just load 'em down..

[petemi]

     I tend to agree with Tim; get the grand old 30/30 barrel and if you want the equivalent of 7.62X39..just load 'em down..


Sorry, I've got to disagree.  The 7.62X39 is not a .30-30 lite.  They're two very different and distinct calibers.  My 39 seems to work better at longer range than my .30-30.  Perhaps it's the lighter ammo.  Tim, if you don't have one, you're missing a good bet.  Mine's a shooter, and right up there with the .45-70 and Maxis as a favorite.  It outshines the .30-30 even with junk Russian ammo.

Pete

[gendoc]

Sorry, I've got to disagree.  The 7.62X39 is not a .30-30 lite.  They're two very different and distinct calibers.  My 39 seems to work better at longer range than my .30-30.  Perhaps it's the lighter ammo.  Tim, if you don't have one, you're missing a good bet.  Mine's a shooter, and right up there with the .45-70 and Maxis as a favorite.  It outshines the .30-30 even with junk Russian ammo.

Pete
[/quote]


thatsa what i'm talk'n bout pete !!!!!!!!

[myarmor]

Yeap, Pete you must have got good one cause there were many a sloppy ones floating around.

[quickdtoo]

Take a look at the Lee manual, you'll see the 30-30 runs 150gr bullets up to 2450fps where the 7.62 runs up to about 2200fps. The only advantage the 7.62 had was with pointy bullets in factory ammo, but with the Hornady LE ammo, that is no longer the case, it pushes the 160gr bullet 2400fps. As a handloader shooting pointy bullets in the 30-30, the 7.62 still sucks hind teat, compare Hodgdon data, 130gr @ nearly 2500fps, 125gr 7.62 @ 2408fps. No sir, I don't need no POS Commie shootin Handi!! 

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-Win-160-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[gendoc]

i think its time for a ....poll  

who has a 39 that performs excellent with all ammo

with russian ammo

with store bought U.S. ammo

with handloads......  thats me

 would you sell your 39 if you had to sell your handi.....no-way !!!   me again

or would you just give it away cus you say its junk

[jeepmann1948]

Well speaking from experience in my misspent youth, the 7.62 X 39 is a better round for jungle use than its USA competition ( but some of opinion is based on the problems associated with the early issued M16). That being said the 30-30 is a time proven hunting round. In the 30-30 a 170 gr bullet has about the same velocity  as the Commie rounds .In a non tube mag the 30-30 can be loaded with a large variety of pointed bullets and the speed and bullet path is greatly improved. An older gunsmith out in eastern New Mexico built a 30-30 bench gun up and kicked a lot of folks derriere's with it. ( it was Based on the old 788 Rem Action) I lost several matches to that old fella.
 Yes I own a Commie gun but it  is strictly for a SHTF situation . Both have their place but I will take the original Assault rifle ( Model 94)
 over a 7.62X39 for hunting any day In a Handi my choice would be the 223 or 30-30. I have a 223  looking for a 30-30
 Now that the ammo scare is over I am seeing the milsurp 223 rounds very cheap so that adds fuel to the fire against the 7.62x39.

[wreckhog]

All this fuss over a cartridge without a rim.

[GrampaMike]

BikerBeans:

I think you are on to something with the case size, load density and velocity.  I have always thought that accuracy was closely related to load efficiency.  I was thinking of taking the data results from the thread “Accuracy Tests (Mathematical Calculations Only)” and graphing Case Capacity, Bullet Diameter and Bullet Weight to see if there was any correlation.

IronGlow:

The load data in manuals include .308 and .310 bullets.

Oldfenderguy:

My bore slugged at .310 to.3105”.  I load and shoot .311 hard cast bullets.  I have never shot anything but hand-loads (Lapua brass) in my 7.62x39mm Handi, and not one failed-to-fire yet.

Mike

[ironglow]

GrandpaMike;
  With the Handi-rifle in 7.62X39, can one be assured that it is of a given diameter or must one slug the barrel of each example?

        It would not be fair to compare the 30/30 to Russian, using the AK as a reference, since the AK is not exactly "Creedmore standards"
   I think we are comparing both in Handi-rifles, thus both with pointed bullets, hand loaded. Using that criteria, I believe the 30/30 is more powerful and more versatile..but that's just my opinion.
   

[tacklebury]

Don't know if anyone here is interested, but Cheaper than Dirt is having a 7.62x39 wolf ammo blow out.  I thought I'd pass it along, since it's pretty cheap at $4.39 a box:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM649-1.html?utm_source=Weekly%2BEmail&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=ProductLink&utm_campaign=10-08-24WolfBlowout

[billy_56081]

I am thinking the PPC case is based on a small rifle prmer version of this case.