Author Topic: WINCHESTER 94AE .444 (Read 846 times)

keith doughty · « **on:** December 02, 2003, 10:08:25 AM »

I GUYS, JUST JOINED UP, I PURCHASED A WIN. 94AE TRADITIONAL .444 NEW WHEN THEY FIRST APPEARED TO BE MANUFACTURED. IN FACT I HAD TO ORDER IT AND WAITED 8 MO. FOR IT, WELL WORTH THE WAIT. I DO HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT AMMO. MY RIFLE WILL SHOOT REM FACTORY 240 GR. AMMO UNDER MOA, BASICALLY A 5 SHOT GROUP WILL ALL BE TOUCHING AT 1OO YDS. BUT WHEN I TRY RELOADING FOR THIS RIFLE, STRAIGHT FROM SPEER OR TRYING MY OWN LOAD CONFIGURATIONS THE HEAVIER BULLETS (XTP) ETC. DON'T SHOOT WELL AT ALL, BARELY 4" AT 100 YDS. SOMETIMES OR MOSTELY WORSE. I CAN LIVE WITH USING REM. AMMO ONLY, I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH A BULLET OF ANY TYPE NOT KILLING WHAT I HIT WHEN THE SHOT WAS IN THE RIGHT PLACE BUT I WOULD LIKE SOME VERSATILITY. CAN ANYONE SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS PROBLEM OR HAVE A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE?

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2003, 10:25:55 AM »

keith: you're gonna love your 94AE. I have 3 and am looking for another to complete the set. I have found that one of the first things to do with the 444 is to get a Lyman Crimp die for reloading. If you crimp the case mouth it throws off the accuracy. If you use that taper crimp die it really helps.

Also, log on into Beartooth Bullets and see what they say about the powder and bullet selection for shooting heavier or cast bullets. For the 300 grain bullet I use the Sierra JSP and 55 gns of H335 for 2174'/sec from the standard length barrel. If you wish to use a LBT (cast gas checked bullet) I have had good luck with the 300 gn LBT WFNGC (wide flat nose gas check) over 53 gns of Varget. Believe me, there isn't anything the 444 can't do with the right bullet and load.

If you want to stay with a 240 gn bullet just to make certain you are doing things right, you can use a standard load of 49 gn of H4198 with a Sierra JSP bullet.

If you feel your accuracy can still be improved with your handloads, you can try lapping your barrel (hand lapping). Sometimes smoothing out those confused micro groove bores helps. HTH. Mikey.

southern utah · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2003, 02:58:08 PM »

If you know anyone looking for a 94AE in 444 I have one that is a safe queen. Shot part of a box when new. LNIB and have box and papers. can send pics

http://www.winchester-guns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=091&cat=003C

BoarHunter · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2003, 08:26:15 PM »

Try something different, eg. Sierra match FPJ 250, one of the best BC of all 44. and certainly the least rainbow trajectory for the 444.
Wish they would exist in 265g
They will penetrate better and will expand later as they are designed for silhouete. Note they are not full metal jacket.
This Sunday, shot a russian wild boar of 158kg (350lbs). Unfortunatly the bullet hit a twig the size of the wrist, got deflected and hit in front of the front leg instead of heart area. We had to track the boar with dogs for some time and finsih it. Did not recover the bullet but for a piece of the jacket, as it went through. What I am sure of is that with fast expanding bullet like the Rem factory or the various 44 bullet, the boar would still be running as they would have expanded far too much in the twig to be effective.
Note that for the 94AE rifling of 38, Hornady has determined the optimum weight to be 265.

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2003, 04:45:08 AM »

Boarhunter - you are quite correct about the heaviest bullet weight for the 1:38 twist, as used in the Marlin Rifles and the Winchester 94AE 444s, being the preferred 265s. However, I understand that the 94's Timber Carbine comes with a 1:12 twist in a micro-groove bbl and wonder if that would handle heavier bullets more accurately or not. Even so, the noise from those danged muzzle ports is so disruptive and painful I'm thinking about sending my Timber Carbine to the Montana Rifleman, or someone else who rebarrels Winnies, for a 20" bbl in a better twist and a full length mag tube. My Black Shadow might get the same treatment, in addition to a nice set of wood. Plastic just isn't my thing in a heavy bore rifle.

southern utah: 'A safe queen', you say. Hmmmmmm. Why doancha e-mail me and we can talk about it. Thanks. Mikey.

BoarHunter · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2003, 05:16:22 AM »

True a faster twist will stabilize a heavier bullet. My concern with heavy bullet is that they are too slow for me, rainbow trajectory, requires more lead on running target and ricochet. It is why I stick with the 250, 265 in 444. Like for most of thing there is no perfect choice and I doubt the truth is not in the extreme.
As I stated in an other thread, we do not want to reinvent the 12g slug.
If I picked the 94AE traditional it is also because the barrel length was a good compromise, the timber was too short and not required as not handier than the traditional but a lot of noise and loss of bullet velocity.