1911 Feeding and Chambering Problem

[dickttx]

I have just started trying to shoot a 1911 parts gun that I put together several years ago when Colt's patent ran out and other companies began making frames.
It has been sitting in my closed, with a loaded magazine for several years.
It would not feed either military ball or reloaded 185 grain JHP cartridges.  Also, the slide would not remain open after the last cartridge was ejected.
Based on this I purchased a couple of  new Springfield Armory SS magazines.  Just tried them out with both cartridges and still have the same problem.  The slide does stay open after the last cartridge now.
The cartridges feed, but are still at a slight angle, which will not allow the slide to close completely.
With the new magazines the first round would chamber when the slide was released, but not on the next round.
These same cartridges would feed and chamber with no problems several years ago when I used it.
Been too many years to remember what might be causing this.  Any help would be appreciated.

[Mikey]

The slide problem may be resolved by replacing the slide stop or the magazines, which you have done.  

As to feeding and chambering:  the cartridges should be at a slight angle in the magazine to facilitate feeding.  What do you mean when you say the slide does not close completely on the round - the slide closes completely on the first round from a new magazine when the slide is released so I am confused by what you are describing.  Are you hand cycling the action after releasing the slide on the first round or is this during firing?  If this is during hand cycling you may be holding the slide back enough so the extractor doesn't ride up and over the case rim.  

Also, your barrel may not be going into full battery when you cycle the action and may need to be fitted to the slide or you may need a shorter barrel link, maybe.  

How much have you fired this pistol?  Does the slide move freely on the frame when it's just the frame and slide??  Is there more noticeable interference or 'dragging' if you then insert the barrel into the slide and cycle it back and forth?  How did you decide on the barrel link or did it come with the barrel you used to build the pistol?  Had the barrel ever been used in another pistol and/or did you fit it to the slide??  

I think we can work this out......

[drdougrx]

Y'know....a basic reliability package from a reputable smith may be worth the money at this point....

[rbwillnj]

Maybe you should try a lighter recoil spring.   Not usually a problem with factory ammo, but if the slide doesn't travel back far enough, it won't lock back.  Could also lead to some feeding problems.  A lighter recoil spring may help.

Usually the problem is the magazine.

[dickttx]

Sorry I wasn't clear.

 But let me back up and start again.  After further testing I find that the GI cartridges slide into the chamber rather easily, but the reloads are tight going in and will not seat all the way into the chamber with just normal finger pressure.
When I load a couple of GI's in the magazine and press the slide release the first one will lock up and fire.  The next one will not lock up.  I can just see the portion of the case above the extractor groove thru the port.
The reloads will not lock up at all.
Both of these worked OK the last I fired the gun, maybe 10 years ago.

[gray-wolf]

You said (I think)
That this was a build from parts.  How many 1911's have you built ?
  The problems you are having can be caused by a multitude of errors in
Springs--all of them
Mags, mag springs, feed lips.
extractor.
Timing.
Barrel lock up
barrel throating
Lack of proper crimp on the reloads.
An understanding of the way a 1911 works, and then going after each problem one at a time.  Take the barrel out and make sure the rounds drop in freely and they are flush with the end of the barrel hood before you enter these into the feeding equation.


GW.

[williamlayton]

Without calling you a name or any slander---I think GW has hit the nail onthe head.
Building is a lot more than putting pieces together--it is putting them together correctly and accurately.
Put a check on your ego andreview what you have done,
Blessings

[dickttx]

I don't see that ego enters into my question, nor how many 1911's I have put together.  All together, including this one-One.
As I said both times, this was a pistol I had put together about 40 years ago, and it had probably not been shot in more that 30 years.
Before that I had shot probably a half dozen boxes thru it and it functioned and shot OK.  About half the rounds fired were WCC 71 military.  The other half were reloads of those cases using 185 gr Sierra JHP's over 7.7 gr of Unique.  The cases were sized with an RCBS carbide die.
It has been sitting loaded on the top shelf of my closet the last 30 years in case I needed it.
I could not afford a Colt 1911 at the time, so when other people began making frames, I bought an aluminum frame.  I found a Gramercy Machine slide and barrel in a pawn shop in Lawton, OK.  Then a friend bought me a coffee can full of parts from summer camp at Fort Polk.
I coated the slide and frame with a mixture of oil and some kind of compound and using a plastic hammer drove the slide on the frame, drove the slide off the frame, etc, for several hours over a couple of months period. 
When the slide would move freely on the frame I started assembling parts from the coffee can.  For some reason I can't remember, the Gramercy barrel did not work out, so I have a GI barrel in it.  There were several duplicate parts in the coffee can and I would keep switching out until one would work.  I remember that I went thru several triggers before one would even function.
I never did get around to putting sights on it. 
As stated above I got it to where it would function and fire. 
My grandson asked me about any guns I had when he visited a couple of months ago.  I got out the pistols and revolvers I had and we shot up a storm at plastic coffee cans, except for the 1911.
Since it had previously worked I assumed that it was the magazine spring or lubrication.  I did not take it down completely and clean and lubricate, I just field stripped and cleaned it.
It has been too many years since I worked on it and I can't remember much of the detail from originally asembling it.
That is the reason I posed the question, hoping there might be something simple I overlooked.

[tacklebury]

One possible solution, I personally have found helpful, is to use a Lee Factory Crimp die for .45 ACP.  It is a taper type crimp for this caliber and has cleaned up all the feeding issues I've run into.  Same for the 40 S&W.  For 9 to 15 bucks, it has cured several fellow reloaders issues.  My Ruger New Model Blackhawk Convertible has a .45 ACP cylinder also, and it's SUPER tight tolerances.  I had tons of issues with getting my reloads to chamber properly and it also cleared these issues up. 

[rbwillnj]

Given the additional information.   As GW indicated, you need a better taper crimp.   Go for about .469 at the case mouth.  If you still get resistance inserting a round into the chamber, than something is causing a buldge in the case.....but try the crimp first.

[mrussel]

I don't see that ego enters into my question, nor how many 1911's I have put together.  All together, including this one-One.
As I said both times, this was a pistol I had put together about 40 years ago, and it had probably not been shot in more that 30 years.
Before that I had shot probably a half dozen boxes thru it and it functioned and shot OK.  About half the rounds fired were WCC 71 military.  The other half were reloads of those cases using 185 gr Sierra JHP's over 7.7 gr of Unique.  The cases were sized with an RCBS carbide die.
It has been sitting loaded on the top shelf of my closet the last 30 years in case I needed it.
I could not afford a Colt 1911 at the time, so when other people began making frames, I bought an aluminum frame.  I found a Gramercy Machine slide and barrel in a pawn shop in Lawton, OK.  Then a friend bought me a coffee can full of parts from summer camp at Fort Polk.
I coated the slide and frame with a mixture of oil and some kind of compound and using a plastic hammer drove the slide on the frame, drove the slide off the frame, etc, for several hours over a couple of months period. 
When the slide would move freely on the frame I started assembling parts from the coffee can.  For some reason I can't remember, the Gramercy barrel did not work out, so I have a GI barrel in it.  There were several duplicate parts in the coffee can and I would keep switching out until one would work.  I remember that I went thru several triggers before one would even function.
I never did get around to putting sights on it. 
As stated above I got it to where it would function and fire. 
My grandson asked me about any guns I had when he visited a couple of months ago.  I got out the pistols and revolvers I had and we shot up a storm at plastic coffee cans, except for the 1911.
Since it had previously worked I assumed that it was the magazine spring or lubrication.  I did not take it down completely and clean and lubricate, I just field stripped and cleaned it.
It has been too many years since I worked on it and I can't remember much of the detail from originally asembling it.
That is the reason I posed the question, hoping there might be something simple I overlooked.

 If it worked before but does not now,detail strip it,and make sure everything is clean and there is none of that residue that some lubes leave after many many years and of course check for corrosion. It may be possible that it just does not "like" the magazines you got for it. Try borrowing a Wilson or a Chip McCormick from someone and see how that works. (Wilsons are my favorites,some people like the Chips,others have their own favorites but most important is finding the one your gun LIKES)
  Did you make sure there is no residue from old lubricant in the chamber? Ive seen some lubricants leave a orange almost shellac type residue that can be very hard to remove.

 One thing I would be very worried about is the safety of your gun. Ive seen people screw 1911s up by working on the triggers or replacing parts and not fitting the new ones right. They end up with a gun whose safety does not work,or that can go off unintentionally with minimal (or without!!  ) pull of the trigger. It might not be a bad idea after tearing it all down and fully cleaning it to send it to a good gunsmith for a once over. He will be able to spot any potential safety issues. As you said,you have only built one of these. He will be able to spot problems that you didnt due to your lack of experience. He will know what to look for becuase he has seen hundreds of them and knows all the ways they can fail or be unsafe.

[SHOOTALL]

I have no idea what your gun is doing but i had one years ago . Like yours it was a parts gun . A Marine was selling them at a gun show. He had as he put it picked up all the parts at a Govt. sale amd put about 12 guns togather to sell for extra cash. This was long before gun shows were watched so hard , a time when you could buy all the parts for a M3 grease gun in one box and the templet to cut a piese of pipe for a reciver in another box , the good old days ! Anyway it had one of the strongest recoil springs i have ever seen , he said it was needed to function. Long story short after the 2nd or 3rd. mag the gun went full auto ( main spring had a piese break off and wedge so the gun shoot full auto) . A friend was a gunsmith and he took the gun apart saying all the parts are here but not quite adjusted correctly . About 45 min later and one main spring and one less powerful recoil spring it worked , not accurate but worked so i slod it. Someone above offered that a reliablity tune up may be a good idea , I agree , hard to beat a man at his trade !

[williamlayton]

There is considerable difference btween a few years ago and 40 years ago.
A long time between 40 years ago and it has been on the shelf 30 years since being shot.
The description of the build gives me less confidance in your abilities than I would desire.
Take that thing to a Smith.
Blessings

[Mikey]

dick:  OK, now I have abetter handle on what is happening so I would consider the following.....stop using the reloads until you can get this pistol functioning properly on GI ball ammo - you can eliminate one problem area right there.  

Then I would begin to check the fit of the parts.  I would first assemble just the slide and frame and make certain the slide moves freely on the frame - you should not have any 'drag' at all and the slide should pass freely over the top of the ejector - if not, work down (file, stone) the top length of the ejector until the slide passes freely going both forward and backward.  Then insert the barrel and bushing and the slide hold-open and make certain the slide continues to move freely and you manually cycle the action.  If you have any drag you may have to go for a shorter barrel link to make ceretain the slide and barrel go properly into battery (look on the hood of the barrel and see if you see any rub marks or scratches where the slide has rubbed across the barrel hood - you may need to stone the edges of the upper barrel lugs and the recesses they fit into in the slide to get them to fit better.

You may need a new set of recoil springs and if so, go directly to Wolfe Springs in Ardmore, PA and get a couple of factory replacements (16-18 lb).  30 years is a long time.

Your barrel - a GI barrel - you should be able to take that barrel and hold it up, and drop a loaded round of ball ammo (or any factory load) right into the chamber and hear it go 'clunk' as it drops in - if not,  the chamber is tight and you will either need to clean the chamber to get the round to 'clunk' in, or replace the barrel and bushing with another GI barrel until you get one that lets the round 'clunk' in, and then make certain that barrel fits the slide properly.  

I used to have things like cigar boxes full of old GI parts and found that most of them were worn and on the edge of being functional so I would just order a couple of new parts to make certain I had some laying around that hadn't been 'used up'.  GI barrels cost somewhere between $35-50 from surplus houses and these are new mil-spec barrels, so get a new barrel if the need be, couple of links and link pins and bushings and find the combo that works effectively for you.  I once put together a parts gun and made it function but I had to go through a lot of parts in that old cigar box before it would work.  

We will work this out.....

[mrussel]

There is considerable difference btween a few years ago and 40 years ago.
A long time between 40 years ago and it has been on the shelf 30 years since being shot.
The description of the build gives me less confidance in your abilities than I would desire.
Take that thing to a Smith.
Blessings

 I wouldn't put it quite that way. He managed to put it together and get it to work,more or less. Thats doing pretty good. The problem is,1911s are temperamental machines. I think the real issue is,hes probboally done all he can within his skills and now needs to take it to someone who knows all the finer points of getting these things to work to iron out the kinks and make sure everything is safe.

[williamlayton]

You are probably right Russell.
I just get a little exasperated when I hear about a parts gun that is , really, not worked up and developed correctly---then it sets on a shelf for an emergency--and when shot doesn't work.
I know enough about myownself to put my ego in check and get it done correctly.
It is expensive, but, it is inexpensive when it comes time to put things on the line.
Thanks for the correction---I deserved it.
Blessings

[gs50401]

I am with Tackleberry. Try the lee factory crimp die.  My loads worked in a 625 and P-90. They were balky in my 1911's.
The factory crimp die smoothed everything out.  That P-90 eats anything.

[Mikey]

dick:  until you can get  your hands on a Lee Factory Crimp Die you can always pull the decapping pin from your sizing die and run the case back up about halfway into the sizing die and that will eliminate any bulges or crimp rolls or anything else like that; or if you have a old 06 or 308 sizer you are not using you can use that too. 

[tacklebury]

+1 Mikey.  That does work.  I should have mentioned that as a test possibility. 

[dickttx]

OK
As per the above suggestions I ordered an 18# recoil spring from Wolff and a Lee .45 Factory Crimp Die.
As the die came first, I checked my reloads mentioned above.  In going over my notes from 9/17/71,    I realized that I had trimmed the cases before I reloaded them.  Inspection showed that the case mouths were slightly flared.  After I ran them thru the Lee crimp die, they each "thunked" into the chamber like the GI rounds.
The new spring was in the mail box when I got home this afternoon, so I installed it.  I did not tear the gun down and clean it as I only wanted to make one change at a time.  I loaded two of the reloads in the new Springfield Armory SS magazine.
It fed and chambered the first round, and also the second round.
Shot another magazine full with no problems.  Cases and primers looked good after firing.
Thanks for the suggestions.

[Mikey]

I told you we would work this out.  Mikey.

[tacklebury]

Congrats