.22 Magnum injuries ?

[azmark]

I was in a discussion on another forum, and decided to ask on here:  Does anyone have personal experience with injuries caused by a .22 Magnum?  I know people shoot all kinds of animals with it, but I'm curious about what effect it has on humans.  I don't want to start arguments, just trying to get info.  Studies and ballistic gel are one thing, but personal experience is valuable.

[dorothy daily]

357 it is not, but i will promise you it would not be an enjoyable experience. it is all about shot placement. a 22 mag hollowpoint in the cranium and you will have an expired ticket. even a 22 lr, which is what we always used at home when we butchered,when i was a child,one shot behind the ear and a beef or hog drops like the were poleaxed.

[Greeenriver]

Years ago, I was a police officer in a small town in New Mexico. We had a call to a bar fight one nite at one of the "Interesting" bars out on the edge of town. Being the first officer on the scene, as I was exiting my car, I got to watch young man get shot in the back running by a local fella. Hit him in the middle of the left shoulder blade, and lotterly took him right off his feet. He was running and landed on his face sliding in the gravel. He lived, but his shoulder blade was completly shattered, and broke a rib under it, and damaged the lung also. This was a Ruger Single Six 22 mag with, if I remember right, about a 6 or 7 & 1/2 in bbl. Actialy, it was a pretty decent shot, about 25 or 30 yds, one hand, dark with street lights, and he hit the guy running with one shot. Then turned with the gun hanging from one finger and both hands up and handed the pistol to me. Oh, the guy he shot droped the knife he had just used to cut a man from his left ear to his chin. Guess he never learned about taking a knife to a gun fight.

There was a lot more to it than I've shared here, but the DA declined to prosicute the shooter, and the one shot was turned over to the Air Police for prosicution.

It amazed me to see him taken forward off his feet like that, and then to find out the pistol was only a 22 mag with WW FMJ ammo.

Only actial instence I can remember of a shooting I seen with a 22 mag. Got a call one night about a self inflicted shooting. Was a 22mag derrenger and guy stuck it in his mouth and pulled trigger. Was a HP and it didn't exit. Victom was DRT when we got there.

Greeenriver

[Mikey]

"I'm curious about what effect it has on humans" - it will kill you.  I was issued a 22 magnum survival piece that had two barrels, over and under derringer style, with external firing pin releases.  IIRC, you opened and action like a zippo lighter, chambered two rounds and closed the action.  The piece was fired by tripping the firing pin release with your thumb.  It was a close contact weapon; absolutely fatal and very destructive. 

I was saddened to see that Grendel went out of business a few years ago and so went their 22 magnum semi-auto pistol but I read that Kel-Tech is coming out with a 22 mag semi-auto. 

[surveyor47]

Would you take a 22 Rifle to a gunfigt? That is exactly what you are doing with a 22 Magnum revolver.  The 22 Magnum revolver gives ballistics nearly identical to a 22LR out of a rifle barrel. 

I have only taken 1 animal with the round, an obviously very ill racoon.  It took 7 rounds of WW JHPs to put the animal down permanently. 1 or 2 rounds from a 38 Special or 1 round of 20 gauge birdshot would have done the job more humanely.  I sold my Ruger Single Six the next day so that I would never ever again get the idea that the 22 Magnum is any sort of self defense weapon. Self defense rounds start with the 38 Special and 9mm Luger and each can be had in very small handguns.

[federali]

The .22 Magnum can inflict some serious tissue damage but tends to lack penetration. It would not be my first choice here in the Northeast where, in the colder months, layers of clothing could start expansion before it reaches the body. I would always prefer a caliber that will most likely stop you now than one which kill you later.

[coyotejoe]

Would you take a 22 Rifle to a gunfigt? That is exactly what you are doing with a 22 Magnum revolver.  The 22 Magnum revolver gives ballistics nearly identical to a 22LR out of a rifle barrel. 

I have only taken 1 animal with the round, an obviously very ill racoon.  It took 7 rounds of WW JHPs to put the animal down permanently. 1 or 2 rounds from a 38 Special or 1 round of 20 gauge birdshot would have done the job more humanely.  I sold my Ruger Single Six the next day so that I would never ever again get the idea that the 22 Magnum is any sort of self defense weapon. Self defense rounds start with the 38 Special and 9mm Luger and each can be had in very small handguns.

Ummm,--not really. I've chronographed 30 grain bullets out of my 6" AMT auto at over 1700 fps and 40 grain bullets close to 1500 fps. Now out of the little derringers then yes, they are pretty close to a .22 LR.

[S.S.]

All depends on the projectile. a 40 grain JSP would
most likely pass through a torso at 10 or 12 yards.
A friend of mine has a Fmj version embedded in the
right thigh bone just above his knee. He was stupidly
carrying a derringer in his front pants pocket.
it discharged and the bullet passed through the
length of his thigh muscle before hitting bone.
 Look at the ballistics of the touted FN Five-Seven.
I would bet that real world use would show that
the five-seven is not much better than a .22 mag.
I would not feel undergunned with a .22 mag.

[coyotejoe]

The five-seven from a handgun is more like a .22 mag from a rifle. The five-seven has a bit more powder capacity and being centerfire can be loaded to higher pressure than a rimfire case could withstand.

[Ganjiro]

Here's a great read on the subject: http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_22Mag.htm
Here's a nice 22 Mag pistol review: http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm

[Merle]

Here's a great read on the subject: http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_22Mag.htm
Here's a nice 22 Mag pistol review: http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm

Very interesting!
Thanks for posting the links.

    

[coyotejoe]

Thanks for the links! That is the first test I've seen of the Kel Tec PMR-30. It strikes me as odd that the velocities from the PMR-30 run considerably slower than the other link velocities from a 6" AMT or my own chronographed velocities from my 6" AMT. I've never seen an explaination of just how that system works as "somewhat blowback and somewhat locked breech". Is gas being bled off to provide that function? If so could that account for the reduced velocities?
 OH WAIT, I just answered my own question, I see that the Kel Tec barrel is only 4.32". Since it appears about the same size as my AMT I just assumed it had a 6" barrel, that's what assumptions get you.
 I still would like to see an explaination of how the breech works, they all say "this is what it does" but none say "how it does it".

[canon6]

Back in the dark ages, I was a LEO and covered a suicide.Bad Guy had shot his wife lover seven times with a Colt 45acp. BG then left the restaurant drove @ 11 miles.Went to his wifes mothers house, sat on the front steps and placed a two  barreled  22mag derringer (HighStandard) to his right temple.He then proceeded to pull the trigger, and managed to draw breath for another 15 minutes or so, thru and thur with a 40 grain solid.And to add insult to injury, wife's lover lived..    Doug

[coyotejoe]

Humans can survive amazing damage. I used to drive a vehicle for handicapped people, transporting them to hospitals, doctors and such. One passenger had tried to blow his head off with a 12 gauge but only blew his face off. He was severally brain damaged as well as looking like a Halloween mask but he lived, if it can be called living.

[Graybeard]

I have no first hand experience with the round on humans but will relay some experiences I've had with the round. I believe it first hit the streets around '58 or '59 and I've owned one or more gun chambered for it since shortly afterward.

My very first experience with it was from a Marlin rifle shooting the Winchester 40 JHP. I shot a starling sitting on a power line and there was no body parts that fell in large enough pieces to be seen. It was as if I had shot a glass ball filled with feathers and that's all we saw after the shot were feathers floating on the breeze.

Once when squirrel hunting, again with rifle, a squirrel was running right up the old dead tree I was sitting on and I took the shot at the running squirrel from perhaps 10-12 yards away. I completely missed the body and hit only the front leg then the bullet also caught the rear leg on same side. The squirrel died instantly without a twitch. When I skinned it I found that entire side end to end was totally blood shot and almost like jelly even tho the bullet never touched the body only the legs.

Once last incident and I'll quit. I once owned a S&W M48 with 8-3/8" barrel and again shooting JHP but not sure if Winchester or CCI I filled an 8 ounce Dixie cup full of mud and sat it in a clear dry area of dirt. I backed off 15 yards or so and fired a shot into the cup filled with mud. I found absolutely no evidence the cup or mud had ever been there after the shot. It all just vanished. I searched all over the area for any sign of what happened but it all just disintegrated apparently.

From these experiences I have come to a conclusion over the years that in a handgun with a decent barrel length the round is a very capable one for self defence against humans wearing warm weather clothing at least. I'd not trust it to get thru heavy winter clothes in cold climates. I'd not trust the silly little single action revolvers with a barrel shorter than the cylinder either but from a gun like the new Kel-Tec or a revolver with 4" or longer barrel I think it would be a wicked man stopper fired into the heart/lung area from head on as I'd expect a true self defense shooting for most civilians might be.

Do I carry one as a result of that thinking? Nope I have far better choices so I use them.

[Mohawk]

My old partner used them as a tunnel rat in a snub revolver. He seemed to like it.

[ohiobenito]

Thanks for the links! That is the first test I've seen of the Kel Tec PMR-30. It strikes me as odd that the velocities from the PMR-30 run considerably slower than the other link velocities from a 6" AMT or my own chronographed velocities from my 6" AMT. I've never seen an explaination of just how that system works as "somewhat blowback and somewhat locked breech". Is gas being bled off to provide that function? If so could that account for the reduced velocities?
 OH WAIT, I just answered my own question, I see that the Kel Tec barrel is only 4.32". Since it appears about the same size as my AMT I just assumed it had a 6" barrel, that's what assumptions get you.
 I still would like to see an explaination of how the breech works, they all say "this is what it does" but none say "how it does it".

unless it has that roller lock blowback  like a cz 52? 
very interesting pistol...... i might need one if I ever have any money