Question and thoughts on trails

[frozentoes]

Went out this morning and did my checks. The usual routine with nothing for catches, but a little action. I set up a dirthole at the end of a log and baited with meat in the hole and a dab of fox gland lure on the log. This morning the trap was flipped out of the hole without being snapped. No tracks that I could really see, but the ground is frozen. I am assuming it was a coon? Hole was never touched. Reset and went on my way. So here is my thoughts and questions on trails made by smaller animals. I found many trails coming from the ridge heading down toward the water. These trails were much narrower and beaten down solid. They were also going through thicker areas. Now, do coons, possum,etc. use the same trails on a regular basis? I am assuming that is the kind of trails I found. It seems like the deer trail are much wider and the ground is more dug up. These small trails were worn down hard and smooth. I put in 4 new sets on these type of trails. No bait, just removed the matted layer of grass, pounded a small hole with my hammer, wiggled the trap in the bed and then covered with the material I took off the top. I was kind of surprised how well they blended in. I sure hope I can find them again,LOL. It seems when I use bait and lure I hardly ever get anything. Maybe this will be the ticket. What are your thoughts on coon trails? Am I on the right track?

[Asa Lenon]

From my experiences, the results of lured/baited sets far exceeds that of blind trail sets.  This is not to mention the non target animals and snapped traps as a result of many animals using the trails.  Trail sets are something  I reserve for tricky old coyotes or winter use where a trail set is placed between two large baits 50 to 100 feet apart.   :-) Ace

[Wackyquacker]

Of course Asa would say that he's a "snake oil" salesman ...and he sells some of the best "snake oil" out there

Toes, you probably will serve yourself better listening to the guys nearer to your local...some things are just different.  But for me, any active trail gets at least a blind set or a snare.

[michigan]

asa's right about lured/baited sets outproducing, but the trap cannot be  contaminated and must be beded solid. Put snares on those trails this winter.

[frozentoes]

I would love to use snares but here in WI it is illegal to use land snares. We are going to be allowed to use snares for coyotes this year from Jan.1-Feb.15. Alot of restrictions but maybe it will eventually lead to land snaring. I am sure the baited sets work very well, but for someone like myself who has to learn all on their own, they are kicking my butt. I just hope I figure the coon out before they really slow down. I do still have 10 baited sets out as well as 4 blind trail sets. I still have 3 #2 coils that I have not figured out where to use yet. Can't use them for rats or coon on drowners because the stream is froze along the banks and will soon be froze all the way. All I can do is keep plugging away and something will eventually happen....I hope :grin: . With our temps in the low 20's for lows and high's in the low 30's I hope the coon keep moving for a little longer, at least until I catch a few. When and if the snow flies I should be able to find more sign. How can you tell without sign if you have mink in your area? The stream I trap on is 6-10 feet across and 1-4 feet deep. It is surrounded by either woods or a flood plain from a larger river. Lots of little fish (chubs), downed logs, and low vertical banks as well.

[Asa Lenon]

There is a lot of restrictions on snares here in Michigan too.  Private property only in January and February.  I'll stick to my footholds, been using them for 50 years now.  Ace

[trappnman]

Trail sets are always good-  but remember that trails used to access food aren't used when the food is gone.

someone once said that he didn't like trail sets because they caught the skunks, possumds etc.  The reply- don't you catch those same animals in your flat, dirthole sets?

doing the otter research, I used a lot of trail sets- and every day I was releasing coon, muskrats, etc from the traps.

I do agree that baited sets USUALLY work better- but you are on the right track by using BOTH.

[frozentoes]

Well so far my blind trail sets were sort of busy. 2 fired footholds and 1 animal caught in a 160. Only problem is, it was not what I was after. A big bushytail :oops: . Maybe thst is what is using my "gold Mine"? We will see tomorrow. The ground is supposed to be white in the morning. Weatherman has been off most ofthe year, except for the wind spped and direction, LOL. Should be interesting. And I finally found MINK tracks!! Yesterday when I checked traps, I have a 160 guarding a run going out of the stream. As I crossed the stream, I broke a hole in the ice next to the bank. This morning, I found tracks where the mink popped its head through the hole and climbed out, leaving its little tracks all over the ice. My trap is on the other side of the stream. Should I move it to the side where the tracks are, or leave it be for now? I sure hope it snows so I will be able to see more sign. Thanks. Mike

[RdFx]

Look over area of stream and look for a spot to put in a bottom edge set in with 110 or 160 .  Check in spots  and put sets in as mink will be going  by those points......  this set will always be working and mink work underneath ice in winter alot...... Good luck

[Wackyquacker]

TOES, now listen to what I type or I mean read what I say; calm down.  You simply can't make things happen.  You need to make certain that everything you have control over is correct and then the critters will do their part when they are darn good and ready.  

You have some good coon and water men talkin with you and if I'm wrong they'll let you and me both know.  If somethin is diggin at your traps, your traps are either wobblin in the bed or smell or both.  There could be something else going on but the percentages are with one of those two things.  You can deodorize your traps by a quick soak in a solution of clorox.  How did you prepare your traps?  How do you handle your traps?  How do you handle your lure and baits?  A good way is to handle one with gloves and one without...no cross contamination this way.   How do you transport your traps?  In other words back track and make certain your not missing a contamination point for your traps.

Bed your trap.   Before covering do the 4 point test, one finger push one a jaw, spring lever, jaw, spring lever;  any movement found fix it by packing under jaw/levers.  Then cover, blend and guide.

Now just watch and wait a bit.  If you get a "flipper" after this you may need to consider some more serious methods and the OLD Farts have truck loads of those. If you go chasin critters around you'll not be very productive.  Yes there are times when you just need to give up on a set even if it is the best one you ever made.  Most times a well made set, by definition, will catch.  

Your last post inspired me to type all this.  I got this mental image of you and the mink and the Carny game where the kid has a club and a gopher is popping his head up out of a different hole every few seconds and the kid trys to club it...you ain't got enough traps to play this game:wink:

now go get em!

[frozentoes]

WQ- I will try to answer a few of your questions, but first I beleive my traps are clean. The last time I pulled all of them and brought them home, I actually did scrub them all with Clorox. Wasn't sure if that was good, but I guess it is. I transport all traps either in a 5-gal. pail or my packbasket. The basket only holds traps and trap setting tools. I carry all my lures and baits in a fanny pack that I wear around my waist. When setting, I set the traps with rubber gloves. I lure bare handed. I feel I am keeping them free from odors. These were all used traps that were dipped and waxed by previous owners. I am sure I am bedding them solid. I do make sure they are not tippy. The only thing I can see is that I use peat moss now to bed. Otherwise the sets get froze in. I did not know anything about dry dirt, waxed dirt, etc, otherwise I might have been more prepared. Back to the peat moss. It leaves an obvious "ring" that looks different then the surroundings. I usually sprinkle local dirt on top of it, but after a few days, the peat moss color really sticks out. I am not sure if this has anything to do with anything. I know I should be patient, but I would really like to catch a few more before the end of the year, LOL. I think I move more because I am trying to learn the area more. If I am out scouting an area and I think I found a better spot then where my dead sets are, I thought it was better to move them to better sign or activity. Now, I am not sure, so very frustrating! All I know is I am going to be a squirrel catching king before long. At least they are good eatin' :roll: .

[Wackyquacker]

Good response Toesy!  :grin:  It is now clear that you are thinking through and it would appear that you have done good on your trap prep, bedding luring etc.  If you where having problems with fox or yotes I'd say for sure your visual stand out was a real issue to fix.  I just can't tell you for sure on coon.  But, there are a bunch of old coon hounds on here and at least one of them will tell us what they'd do.  :?  

On moving to good sign; sometimes the sign was good and when you move there the critters have moved back where the sign was good when you first  set. :oops:   Most critters "cycle" through their territory.  Some do this with a sorta "predictability" kinda sorta if you know what I mean.  Again it seems that some have already suggested changing food sources as a big issue with the coon and RdFx, I believe mentioned that mink move in and about their territory.  How long and where you leave a set is really an experience thing that you develope a "feel" for.  

I'll set back and let the old fart coon hoounds learn us both some stuff.

[RdFx]

Frosty toes  it sounds like you are doing things right but  one thing that i believe you arent doing right and that is  .............................................................................................................................PATIENCE........................................................................you have the observing down right and on track and it will get better with experience..... Sometimes you can connect  same day you set for canines and sometimes they  need aging....Sometimes my sets sit for a month before connecting..... Also i dont think we talked about lures much....WHen its cold you have to use more lure and that depends on the type and maker of the lure you are using.... Usually when its cold here in WI using a skunk call lure upwind in area of yr set helps get canine in location..... Then  a gob the size of  red bean or so  in hole or under  something is about right....... now sometimes a lure has to mellow or air out especially early season but  not in cold weather.... I have taken canines  in flat sets in winter with set covered with snow with just the end of a Q-tip dipped in lure and put in set...... Does this tell you something about a canines nose??.   After you make yr first catch  you will gain confidence in what you are doing and   it will make a differance  in yr mindset and how you make yr sets..... Keep asking questions  becuase  im here to learn too and i could learn fm you also with something i havent thought of..... GOOD LUCK.

[Asa Lenon]

RdFx writes....I
 have taken canines in flat sets in winter with set covered with snow with just the end of a Q-tip dipped in lure and put in set...... Does this tell you something about a canines nose??.

Well, here I go, a lure maker cutting his own throat by repeating again that overusage of lures or using lures too strong can be a major factor in set avoidance. I don't recommend skimping on lures but neither should they be overdone.  One has to use common sense when deciding which lure to use and how much of it, never forgeting the sensitivity of a canines nose.  Set location in relation to the animal's anticipated approach along with weather, wind direction and temperatures have to be considered.  I used to have this customer, Charles Johnson of Crystal Michigan who ordered lure from my Dad and myself every year for 60 years.  At the end of each season he would send pictures of his red fox harvest, always very impressive for a man in the ending years who was about 90 years old, 70, 80, 100 fox nailed to his barn wall. I had a personal visit with Charles before his passing and he told me his views on lures and luring.  He caught every one of these fox year after year on ONE 1 ounce bottle of Lenon's Fox Super Range All Call, he used no other lure or lures.  He said he put a dab the size of a grain of rice inside of milk weed pods and put them to the bottom of each dirt hole.  If the set didn't produce in a given time, he retrieved the lure/pod and used it at a new set.   He said using lure in this manner ensured the fox would go after the odor to better investigate it and that otherwise they would analyze lures from back a distance and sometimes be satisfied enough to just move on without working the set.  I realize that Charles no doubt knew perfect set location with all of his years of experience and this attributed to his outstanding performance.  Again, I don't necessarily think trappers should skimp on lures, I don't.  I use an amount the size of a kidney bean. However, I think novice trappers generally want to catch an animal so badly that they overdo lures, baits and urines to an extent that it becomes counter-productive rather than beneficial.  Those of you who may be having problems with set avoidance when your doing your best to do other things correctly, give Mr Johnson's luring method a try on a few sets and see what happens.  As far as a lure maker cutting his own throat, I would rather have a happy satisfied customer for many years than to sell them excess lure they may not need one time.  Repeat business is what my Dad founded this business on.   :-) Ace

[Wackyquacker]

Did ja bleed out yet Asa? :-D

I too use very little lure at my canine sets ...same for urine at posts.  However, wasn't toes asking about coon problems and mink?  Is the same advice good for coon?  I haven't got a clue which is the best.

PS Asa, I use a big blob of lure at cat sets, soooooo get out to the shed and get busy

[jim-NE]

Not sure if this will help or not, but remember that blind sets are just that, and they only work if the animal is using that trail and steps where you want it to step. Sometimes it helps to tip the odds in your favor slightly. You can lay a stick across the trail just in front of your trap and sometimes that helps break up the animals natural walking stride to force them to step over or in front of that stick and hopefully right into your pan. I use that a lot on cow trails too...no real natural place to put a set along a smooth, hard dirt cow trail but sometimes just by putting about three small cow pies in a line in the trail with space between each for a set...then just put a set between either pie but not necessarily both, will do the trick to get a coyote or fox to put its foot in your trap.
For coons along coon trails, I've had pretty decent luck on blind sets by just laying a stick across the trail right next to the trap. Its not like a coon has long legs and takes long strides, so you don't need much to make them step somewhere. There is a fine line there in stick size, too. Too big of a branch and they will actually step on the branch instead of over it.
Another trick I've used is to make a little "fence" of sorts by shoving small sticks into the soil on either side of the trap so that the only opening in your little stick fence is right in the middle of the trail, and right where your trap is. I use that a lot on little narrow streams. Bed a trap right in the middle of the stream and use sticks to fence it all down to an opening right in the middle where your trap is. Get a few mink that way too if the water over the trap isn't too deep, too.
Jim-NE