Author Topic: getting set up for off grid living. Need help? (Read 7734 times)

glock fan · « **on:** August 23, 2010, 05:37:56 PM »

Hi,

I'm trying to get set up for off-grid living. My situation is I have 115 acres in a very remote location. The nearest town is 90 minutes away. I have guaranteed access to a very good well that is 2-3 minutes from my place. There are no utilities. period. Currently, I have a nice RV under a new RV cover. I'm located in southwest Texas. I try to go to town only once a quarter. Water is not an issue and I have two generators so power is manageable but not where I want it to be. My issues are heat, power & bugs. Ironically bugs are higher on the need to fix list than power. Any ideas or thoughts are very welcome. TIA!

tacklebury · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:51:32 PM »

If bugs are a problem, build a stilt house design and put down flared galv. steel collars around the legs. That will keep a lot of crawlies out of your sleeping quarters with minimal need to keep watch. The huts of the most buggy place in the world, the Amazon Jungle, all tend to be this methodology, minus the flanges, that was just an additional help with a modern twist. Power will vary by location and I'm not very familiar with Texas, albeit, my first thought is that with your southern location, solar seems a fairly obvious way to go. If you switch over to LED lighting, you can cut down a lot on your usage. As for heat, once again, it varies by locale. If you have wood available, that seems a good way to go and it can be used for cooking too. If not, once again, when designing your stilt house, plan for a large southfacing area that can be warmed or cooled using available sunlight and adjust level using shades. You can also use solar cookers to supplement cooking heat if it works out timing wise. Other things that come to mind are cow patties if there is a lot of cattle in your area. Solar collectors for power have come a long way though, so I'd do some more research in that route.

***edit***

Wind has a lot of applications also, so I wouldn't discount that if you are in a good wind zone. I've designed my own VAWT (vertical air wind turbine) and it runs about $500 to set one up depending on how big a tower you need/have. You can also buy good premanufactured std. blade style generators for moderate amounts. Several of these can produce a lot in good wind zones, or can also supplement generator and solar power. This one is about 1300 bucks with the 30' tower each:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200439926_200439926
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381439_200381439

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2010, 03:24:05 AM »

problem with off grid power is the cost. I worked for 30 years for the power company as a lineman and talked to many people who did it or attemped it including one of my best friends who did it because he lived 5miles for the nearest power line. If you have fairly close access to the grid its still the cheapest way to go. You about need a combination of wind and solar and to get into inverters that are even fairly effecient with todays technology its very expensive and it would take a lifetime to recoup the cost to break even with paying your power bill. This could change in a year. With the push for clean energy theres many companys working on differnt ideas. About the most effecient setup right now is a fuel cell. Its a very small turbine powered generator and battery pack. They arent cheap but there ready to go. Drop one in and fire it up. I believe last i heard you could go a year on one without refueling.

BIG Dog454 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2010, 07:00:29 AM »

I have a son in the Big bend area. He is trying to live off grid. He has solar, and wind generator with golf cart batteries for storage; wind and solar wont keep up. Uses gas generator to suplument usage, and propane to cook. He said he needed a gas refrigerator so I gave him my pull camper which is self sufficient. Just got back from there last week so don't know how that is working out.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2010, 09:02:38 AM »

Plant some bug repellant flowers like merigolds?, ther's a product called Buhach thats made for powderd flower pettals (parithium) that absolutely kills most bugs dead on contact, dumped in a small heap and set alight as a smudge it really keeps our Alaskan bugs in check Ive been useing this product for years seems not to affect warmblooded critters.
I sprinkle some in the shop window boxes them flies hit that yellow dust they die in about a minute.

I'd check out how they had old mexican homes set up for hot summer's or the Aussie livestock stations.
evaprative cooling and a solar powerd fan to move the air would go a long way twards a nice place.
screen in the veranda like they did in the screen door days before REA.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2010, 10:10:52 AM »

Ah bug spray. They make some that you spray around your dwelling and it lasts for weeks if not months. The asian beetle were about to drive my mom insane until she had her house sprayed. There was a patch of these orange bugs a foot wide around the house.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2010, 02:26:53 PM »

Why do you need power? I lived "off the grid" in Alaska before it was fashionable. I had propane lights and cooking, propane fridge, and a drip oil stove for heat. Okay, I had a 1200 watt generator to run the reel to reel tape player (this was a long time ago) and small power tools. I packed water on my back for two horses, a dog, a cat and me from the creek 1/4 mile away. I used wood heat too for a time, but it was easier to get #1 stove oil in 55 gallon drums from the bulk fuel plant. The nice thing was that once I had everything for the winter, I didn't have to sweat bills. Oh, an outhouse will still work for amenities. Bathing out of a wash basin isn't bad once you figure out how to do it.

Being in Texas, I would think that you would want to build with adobe, at least a foot thick in the walls. You will also want to insulate the ceiling with at least 10" of fiberglass or an equivalent. That will keep the heat out during the summer, the thermal mass of the walls will hold the cool and keep the interior at an even temperature. They will also hold the warmth in during the winter, and radiate it into the building when the heat is off.

Rex makes a good point on Buhach, but I don't think you can get it outside of Alaska. Sort of like pilot crackers, which are made on the East Coast but I had to order a case from an outfit in Juneau to have here in Ohio....

Good luck. Let us know how you make out!

-WH-

glock fan · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2010, 03:27:49 PM »

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. There are some great tips and helpful suggestions that have been made in this thread. If all goes as planned I will have a screened in gazeebo built by this fall. I'm planning on a 40' x 12' structure that will stand next the RV cover. This will give me an outdoor living space that will be usable about 10-11 months out of the year. I'm planning on putting a fire pit with a chimney on one end for cooking and late night enjoyment. Nothing like sitting in front of a fire and enjoying the stars at night. I hope to get a newer/bigger generator that runs on propane. I hope to have a small solar setup to run LED CHRISTmas night lights, fans and other low power requirement appliances. That should allow me to shut down the generator and enjoy the evening in peace & quiet. I also have eight farmer's lanterns that run off Tiki lantern oil that I got from an Academy store. They give off good light but also are low cost & maintence. You can hang them up or set them on the ground. They are pretty versatile. Well its time to go outside and watch the sun set. Thanks again for your help and input.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2010, 04:22:53 PM »

Buhach is available at most garden supply store's
Gurneys in yankton south dakota had it the last I knew.
Amazon is also a good place to buy Buhach.
The history of Buhach is interesting, the flower originated out of Persia (IRAN) was introduced in the USA for bug control in the mid to late 1860's.

A friend of mine has a place over in Nevada that the house was built in the 1920's is of hay bale adobe construction.
in Mexico the pour concrete walls they use garden hose as the conduit.
They make a additive that is mixed in paint that creates a insulative barrier, radiant insulation there is 2-3 brands of this its ceramic micro capsules that the hollow space inside is a vaccume, the same technology they use on the space shuttle heat tiles, I fi recall it can only be used in light color paints and was reported to be used to spray the roof sheathing as a radiant heat barrier to keep attics cooler.
www.blocktheheat.com
www.Insuladdsales.com
www.Hytechsales.com

no guns here · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2010, 09:38:44 AM »

Adobe, rammed earth, earth bag construction... all could be done cheaply except for labor but it sounds like you have lots of time on your hands so...

Solar should solve your power issues. Expensive to startup. Convert to LED and/or the small flourescent bulbs. Plant more brush/trees around your place to help cool the immediate area. The RV cover, which I'm assuming is a large carport type structure should also be vertically shaded on the south and west to stop the afternoon/evening heat. I'd search the area for old barns/houses. Recycle wood or tin to use as a "shade fence" on those sides.

How do you get the water to your place? 2-3 minutes walk or drive? Sewage? Refrigeration?

I'm not much help with bugs... I rely on chemicals...

NGH

glock fan · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2010, 03:20:52 PM »

no guns here,

The RV carport is 40'x24' with a 14' center and 12' outside legs. I put a limestone base in it that has packed down like concrete. I had solar screens installed on the southwest sides to protect against the sun. The screens come about 1/2 way down the sides so I can walk under them but still get protection during the hot part of the day. The well I referred to earlier is about 2 minutes by truck. I usually take two 55 gal. drums in the bed of the truck down to the well. The well has been tested and shows to have potable water. It takes about ten minutes to fill both barrels. The barrels have spigots near the bottom so I can hook a garden hose to them and drain them into what ever I want. The RV has a 35 gallon water tank on it so I usually fill it first. I have two 300 gallon water tanks that I can attach a garden hose to water to supply an outdoor shower or deer feeders, etc. They are portable when empty. In regard to the latrine question, I use five gallon buckets with attachable toilet seat lids that I got from Sportsmans guide catalog. The camo buckets with lids were like $15 each. I also got some disposable toilet bags that are designed to fit inside the 5 gallon buckets. The toilet seat snaps onto the bucket rim holding the disposable bag in place. When the bag is full simply remove it. Tie the end and seal it inside the siver pouch that acts as an outside double lining. No muss. No fuss. No smell. No mess. This system will work fine unto I install a permanent septic type system. At that time I plan to install a solar septic system along the lines of what they use @ Big Bend state park. For individual use, they cost about a fourth of a regular septic system. I've got a long way to go to get to where I want to eventually be with this setup but its fun all along the way. Hope I answered your questions. Thanks again for all your help.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #11 on:** August 26, 2010, 05:00:33 PM »

I think being the 21st century mabe embraceing technology is a good thing.
there are several composting toilet systems out there one may fill your needs.
You may see the short term cheapness of bagging it your self (honeybucket) most Alaskans retch reflex activates at the smell of pinesol, somehow we dont associate the aroma of pinesol as anything clean.

Composting toilets BioLet30 non electric waterless
Envirolet MS10 waterless selfcontained
Sun-Mar compact
Phonex

Might want to budget one in your future.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2010, 01:50:30 AM »

buddy has one of the sun-mar non electric composting toliets at his camp. Only thing electic is a small 12v vent fan that runs on a solar panel. He says its works great.

glock fan · « **Reply #13 on:** August 27, 2010, 05:52:27 PM »

Thanks for the tips on the solar toilets. I checked the websites of those mentioned as a good option. I'm definitely going to do a solar toilet. Seems like a perfect fit for my situation. A solar toilet is next on my to do list. Sunmar is most likely the way I will go. Haven't decided for sure but is the most likely option. Thanks again for the heads up.

efremtags · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2010, 04:22:41 PM »

Get yourself some solar / inverter charger / battery bank. You can cut your fuel use by 50-75%, and eliminate noise at night. Lookin at about 10k investment, but a lot of stuff is currently covered under federal and state tax incentives, so you can save about 50%.

Wood heat works well, if it is cold in your area, consider an outside wood furnace. It can do heat and water.

Soalr water heater works well too for domestic and ligh heat loads.

There is a solar hot air heater too (solarsheat), which can heat upto 1500 sqft house in mild climates.

don heath · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2010, 07:58:52 PM »

1) Quick Building...Put poles in ground..stretch hessian (sack cloth) between poles and plaster with cement. In 1984 we had to 'instantly' provide housing for about 2000 refugees from the Zimbabwe Governments first round of 'ethnic cleansing'. My dad and I put up some 250 'houses' plus commual shower blocks and toilets in a week using this method. It was mid winter and a cold one (-7 to -10 most nights) and the refugees had salvaged very little in the way of kit. At the time we 'roofed' the huts in the same way. The two gum poles we used for the back wall were 2' longer than the tree (corners and door) post we used at the front and we wimply streached hessian between two more poles nailed as cross beams to front and back wall and plastered it as well. 25 years later all the huts are still standing and still in use. The roofing has mostly been re-done with asbestos sheeting or old flattened out oil drums- we don't get much rain but when it does, it rains hard. 4" in 30 minutes is not uncommon and the most of the roofs didn't cope...but the side walls have. At the bottom of the walls we turned about 1' of hessian inside the building and when we threw the floor (just a weak slurry directly onto the sand) it set the hessian down forming a solid weatherproof join.

don heath · « **Reply #16 on:** August 31, 2010, 08:07:42 PM »

2) water tanks...Hauling water is no plan...put in a decent water tank and gravity feed to your 'house'. This means you can build a rhodesian boiler for hot water and have flush toilet if you wish. It doesn't take a whole lot of power to push a steady trickle of water a mile unless you are going over a mountain. The little Honda 3hp petrol water pumps are so common in Africa you wouldn't belive it...and if you have a decent sized tank, you only need to fill it (running the petrol pump) occasionally.I have a 1000 (imperial) gal tanks to supply the house in Harare,and with two families on the property it lasts a week if you are careful- and that includes showering every day.

On the farm I have a 5000 gal tank filled by a windmil.

to build a quick and dirty water tank I have used a circle of steel fencing posts driven 1' into the ground and then wrapped a double circle of chicken mesh arround the (inside) of the poles, plastered with cement, same as the floor of the water tank and bingo...one 5000 gal tank built in a day (although it takes a week to dry). Some of the tanks built like this by by grandfather in the 1930's are still in order on the farm. Personally I like the sealed plastic ones (no alge and no rats drowning in your drinking water) but they do cost more...however, their life can be extended considerably by covering with hessian and plastering (as above) to keep the UV rays off the plastic.

glock fan · « **Reply #17 on:** September 02, 2010, 04:14:02 PM »

I appreciate any & all input & replies to this thread. However for my situation, (3) 1500 gal. water tanks filled from the common well will take care of my water needs for weeks/months at a time. I just got them and they seem to work fine. I got them in Mexico for cheap. A guy I know went across the border & brought them back from cuidad Aquna across from Del Rio, Tx. I just contracted for a 960 sq.' expansion to my original structure that will give me 1920 sq.' under roof with a storage unit and 480 sq.' screened in outside living area. I plan to do a DC solar backup system for my generator. I'm definitely going to do a solar toilet. Just takes time & $$. In the meantime I actually live pretty well. My issues are heat, bugs ( gnats, flies, mosquitos), power & water/septic. I believe when I'm done (will take 3 years), I will live well off-grid and have a place where I can grow my own food and live very cheaply. My property taxes are $35/year. Low utility costs. Low insurance costs. A level of freedom due to being very remote that not many enjoy today. The key to my long-term future success will be invisibility & low-cost structure.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2010, 04:31:24 PM »

I just recently tried some bug spray called "Demon". It is safe for pets and can be used indoors. It is expensive at about $15 a gallon. It is a powder you mix with water in a pump sprayer, but it kills ants, roaches, termites, any crawling insect. It works on their nervous system but not on mammals. 1 gallon will cover a lot. I only used one gallon around my house, no ants, no roaches, nothing. Great stuff. Might leave a milky residue though. In west Texas, I would probably build an underground or semi-underground home to keep from being too hot or too cold. Face east, keeps north winds out in winder, and hot sun out in summer except early morning. This will cut your heating and air conditioning to a minimum. Might have to use a propane refrigerator and to cook. However, you should have plenty of sun and wind power for minimum electrial production.

glock fan · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2010, 05:20:43 AM »

I wish I could do something like an earth home. However, where I am is on solid rock covered by about 3"-4" of dirt. My camp is on a mesa overlooking seven canyons that come together into a valley on the north side of my place. I named the ranch Lost Canyon Ranch. The sun and wind are the abundant natural resources I hope to harness to my advantage, backed up with a couple of generators. I use more than one generator for redundancy and to give them a rest from time to time. I use the bigger one for my RV and a smaller portable one for tools & lite chores. Oddly, I can get cell phones service out there. Its spotty sometimes and you have to be on high ground but it does work. Huge plus for safety sake. The water tanks I have are elevated to take advantage of gravity. I plan to install a roof water runoff system as soon as I can. When it rains it pours. Some of the low lying wet weather creek beds can flood for days and be impassable. Game is abundant, mainly; deer, feral hogs, trukey, dove, quail, rabbits, snakes, etc. Black bear and pumas are common enough to have to keep a sharp eye out for them. They come up out of northern Mexico. Unfortunately that's not all that comes out of Mexico. I haven't personally had any problems yet due to my place being so remote and not being in an immigration corridor. I'm not worried so much about illegal immigrants as about the gangs that smuggle dope & such across the border. There is one gang called the Zetas that are particularly bad. They are the ones that like to torture people & cut their heads off or hang folks from bridges. I wish the govt. would redeploy the troops coming back from Iraq along our southern border and secure it like it should be. For now my best defense is invisibility. Wow, I've worked and paid taxes all my life just like most folks and my best bet is being invisible even in very remote location. Just had a full body shiver. I know TMI. LOL

no guns here · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2010, 11:13:06 AM »

Nah... not TMI, sounds cool out there. Your place sounds too remote to be anything to bother with. You can do and earth home. Did you look into the rammed earth or bagged earth structures? Basically you build them and then cover with adobe type coverings. The bagged earth walls end up being over a foot thick and very solid. Cool in summer, warm in winter and since they are filled with dirt... bullet proof. Basically a house made of sandbags.

NGH

glock fan · « **Reply #21 on:** September 09, 2010, 04:56:24 AM »

NGH,

Thanks for heads up on bagged earth style homes. Someone else had mentioned old tires filled with dirt and plastered over as another type structure as well. Either type or a combination of both type building styles would work. Hay/straw bales work well too in the right climate. I love the look of adobe homes. Heating/cooling benefits are great too.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #22 on:** September 09, 2010, 06:20:12 AM »

I have seen bagged earth construction on the internet somewhere. They used bobwire between each layer of bags and built them igloo style with openings for doors and windows. Stone is another way of construction. Depends on your area. The thicker the better for more insulation. I have also seen where people mortered aluminum cans in stacks like bricks. They used a piece of plywood leveled to stack, then removed and used it to stack another area. They just used concrete stucco over the cans and the cement grabbed into the poptop holes for a smooth stucco finish. The walls are lightweight and not strong enough for support and were used in post and beam type construction.

no guns here · « **Reply #23 on:** September 09, 2010, 07:14:44 AM »

Yep, barbed wire to hold it all together between each course of bags. The bags can be bought as "seconds" or "overrunns" fairly cheaply I told. Doesn't have to be a corbelled dome. You can finish the roof in a regular style. Some links...

http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/earthbag.htm
http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/projects/haiti.htm
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Homes/2005-10-01/Earthbag-Construction.aspx

Once I retire and settle down, I THINK I plan on building my shop/reloading/man cave this way... Seems like it would be fairly cheap to hire some high school kids to help with the manual labor for a day or two a month and then pretty soon I'd have a nice sized building ready to finish out. I'd probably do a concrete foundation and then do concrete block walls for interior walls and support. I sort of dig the adobe/stucco look. Seems like it would be a nice building option... since it wouldn't be for habitation and since I'll live out in the sticks I shouldn't have too much to worry about with codes and inspections. If there is plumbing or wiring I'll hire that done for safety reasons.

NGH

no guns here · « **Reply #24 on:** September 09, 2010, 07:19:04 AM »

Another possible option for you would be cordwood construction. Being in Texas, you probably have mesquite. Would think it would be easy to at least build some of the walls from mesquite cordwood. It's also on some of the links I posted above.

NGH

glock fan · « **Reply #25 on:** September 11, 2010, 02:18:53 PM »

Thanks for the website info. and the ideas. Very hard to get anyone to come out here to build anything. That's why I've taken the RV carport and RV approach. The RV carport (40'x24') took two days to build. It's made of 12 (galvanized) & 26 (painted) gauge metal. Supposed to last 40 yrs. LOL! The RV is self contained and with my generator and water tanks provides most of the comforts of home. Even my wife feels comfortable out there and she's a city gal. The next step is a screened in outdoor living area and then storage buildings and an outhouse with running water and a waterless toilet. Only takes time and $$. I'm in my 60s and have had two heart attacks so I can't really do much of the manual labor myself. Thus, I need to go with a turn key approach using contract labor. The guys doing the add-on work are coming from Mcqueeny, Tx. which is about 6-7 hrs. away from my ranch. When they have to go back to Del Rio @ night if they don't finish in one day, the round trip is 3 hrs. BTW, my place is in Val Verde county which is where they filmed "No Country for Old Men". As an "old man", that gives me reason to pause. Hope I'm not getting in over my head.

efremtags · « **Reply #26 on:** September 11, 2010, 04:00:52 PM »

A buddy of mine lives there. Nice country. Been to the lake, my old company did the solar lights there.

glock fan · « **Reply #27 on:** September 13, 2010, 04:14:48 PM »

efremtags,

Would like to hear more about solar cause that's on my list of things to do next year. Water catch system & solar system should make life alot better out @ the ranch. Looking @ a DC system for lite stuff. Lites, DC water pump, fans, PC, cell phone charger, etc. Can you tell me who to talk to about a system that would accomodate lite/medium use of the above?

Thx,

Glock fan

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #28 on:** September 14, 2010, 03:33:32 AM »

For your 12v DC system, you might check with an RV dealer for DC equipment. Also RV DC equipment online, like small refridgerators, lights, etc. Don't know how much firewood you have available, but it can be used for heating, water heating, and cooking. Solar, even homemade solar is good for water heating and heating with a hot water system. You can buy and/or make a solar slow cooker. Works kind of like a crockpot. You can put a stew in a cast iron Dutch oven and surround it with aluminum foil covered cardboard from a box and aim the sunlight to the pot. It can cook a stew in a few hours.

Heating and air conditioning are your biggest users of energy. Air conditioning will be the hardest to solve. Even 3' underground stays about 60 degrees, and with body heat, cooking, showers, lights, TV's, computers, etc, put off heat.

The next largest user is for water heating. Solar is cheap, but you do need a cloudy day backup.

Refrigeration is next, and they do make DC and propane refrigerators.

no guns here · « **Reply #29 on:** September 14, 2010, 10:37:19 AM »

Just keep in mind that solar power and solar water heating are two different things. Don't need electricity to heat water in SW Texas. A water tank painted black and some reflective surfaces to concentrate the suns energy are all you should need to get water hot enough to use for cooking/showering/heating.

NGH