Patch thickness

[groundhog107]

A little help?  I have a Lyman GPR with a slow twist barrel (1:60) and I am shooting .490 roundball.  The accuracy is pretty good but I was inspecting the shot patches and found them to be pretty much blown apart with holes in them. I backed the load down to 60 grains of fff and it still was the same.   They are cotton wonderlubed precut and .015" thick.  I have used lubed Pillow ticking that measure about .018" but they are VERY tight in my bore. I wouldnt think .003" would make that much difference. I am afraid to try to load a second shot without a complete cleaning for fear of a stuck ball, they are that tight but they come out looking nearly new.  I dont know what else to use, the gun shoots pretty well but blowby cannot be good for the barrel in the long run.  The pillow ticking is something I bought by the yard and washed and lube as I use them.  Is there something I can do to the ticking to allow it compress a little better? Any suggestion would be appreciated.

[flintlock]

It sounds like you are using Triple 7...If so, switch to Pyrodex or better yet, real black powder...Triple 7 can blow patches because it is hotter than real black powder or Pyrodex...

If I am reading you post correctly, the patches being blown are precut and prelubed...I've had this happen as well because you don't know how long those patches have been lubed and the oil breaks down the cotton and the patches blow away...

I prefer to buy bulk patching as you have done with the tickng...I'd try to find another patch material...If you have a Jo Annes fabric store nearby you might try #40 cotton drill cloth...

It sounds like the .018 ticking is what the gun prefers...Some rifles just prefer a tight patch/ball combo and shoot best when wiped between shots...I've never known a competitive shooted that didn't use a tight combo and didn't clean between shots...

Off the top of my head this is why patches blow...

1) Too thin, don't hold up and can't hold enough lube...
2) Not cotton or linen, man made fibers burn quickly...
3) Rough barrel, needs lapping...
4) Poor crown or sharp lands...Actually cutting the patch, barrel needs lapping...
5) Excessive powder charge or using a sub that burns too hot...
6) Loose ball patch combo allowing blow by...

[necchi]

It sounds like the .018 ticking is what the gun prefers...Some rifles just prefer a tight patch/ball combo and shoot best when wiped between shots...I've never known a competitive shooter that didn't use a tight combo and didn't clean between shots...

Yup, that's a key thing right there. If .018 works, an ya gotta swab with a spit patch between loadings go for it.

I'm a swabber and a comp shooter and a hunter,,all this hoowey from guys that say they don't have time to swab because of hunting, or it's not needed because all they do is hunt,,is just that, hoowey.

Swabbing between shot's keeps the bore in the same condition shot to shot,,no build up from multiple shot's,,it's the same each time

[groundhog107]

1) Too thin, don't hold up and can't hold enough lube... Dunno
2) Not cotton or linen, man made fibers burn quickly...They are cotton
3) Rough barrel, needs lapping...Barrel is new and well maintained
4) Poor crown or sharp lands...Actually cutting the patch, barrel needs lapping... Again barrel is new and no damage to the crown
5) Excessive powder charge or using a sub that burns too hot... Using  60 to 90 grains of 3f Black (too much? dunno)
6) Loose ball patch combo allowing blow by... I think so but I cannot seem to bridge the gap of .015 cotton and .018 ticking
I appreciate the input 

[flintlock]

Even brand new barrels can have a poor crown or sharp rifling that will cut patches...Some guys fire lap them or smooth them out with JB Bore paste...Let's not worry about this at the current time...

Are you using real black powder like Goex, Swiss, Elephant, etc???

60-90grs of Goex FFF is not too much...Around 50grs would be a good target, small game load and 75-90grs would be good for deer...What I like to do is get her sighted in with a half charge dead on at 25 yards and 1 1/2-2 inches high at 50 with a full charge...This allows me to squirrel hunt with the lighter charges...

Something else you can try...I actually don't like doing this because I'm a firm believer that with the right combo it's not necessary, but it might help you get started...

Charge the gun and then, instead of ball and patch cover the powder with either hornet's nesting, a lubed felt wad or a lubed patch rammed down on top of the powder...Then load your ball and .015 patch...Now you have something between the powder and patch that will help protect it...

I've done this in the early days when I thought more powder was better and when I was still using store bought patches...I was burning patches too...I finally found the right patch and lube combo to correct the problem...

[groundhog107]

Flint,
              I was thinking about a "wonderwad" under the patched ball thanks for confirming my thoughts.  Yes I am shooting Goex and some Elephant real BP dont care for subs like to "kick it old school" as my boy might say. I will try that and report back.


Thanks for the replies, that is what makes this site what it is.

[BDINPGH]

Groundhog - I have used the "wonderwads" with great success.  I have several TC's and a Lyman Great Plains.  With the Lyman, I noticed the same thing. With a .490 RB, a .018 patch is too thick if there is any fouling in the bore.  I tried hornet's nesting and that works good also, but the lubed wonderwads are great.  They have eliminated patch burn-through with .015 patches and allow me to use heavier loads for hunting without sacrificing accuracy.

[groundhog107]

Ok as promised, here is a full report.

I went to my local Muzzleloader shop Cains Outdoors (formerly Mountain State Muzzleloader) and asked for thier help.  Great folks by the way.   I went to a .495 ball with the .015" patch and a "wonder wad" atop 90 grains of Goex powder.  The results were stunning.  My range is limited by my eyesight but I can put a ball dead center in a 2 1/2" circle every time out to 50 yards which is in my estimation a good hunting range.
I wont take a shot at an animal that I cannot cleanly kill as I feel I owe it to Gods creature to harvast it with as little suffering as possible. I am funny that way I guess.