187? Napoean style field cannon .690 bore questions?:)

[Jackguns]

Hi All

I got this thing years ago. It is got a 14" barrel with a steel  insert that ca;ipers out at .690 inside the insert muzzle. I know little to nothing about them other than a month on the net at different sites. I want to shoot the cannon with a ball.

I have FFFG Goex which is a no no I learned although the previous owner shot it with that.

I have now obtained Goex cannon powder.

I could not find any .690 balls so I ordered steel balls at a smaller size. Not happy with that decision...I

have bought a single cavity .690 lyman mold and a 40.00 pair of handles which I have been told are of no use since I was told the ball should not go in "tight".

I have been told to use a smaller ball about .678 or .672 with a patch and about 70 grains of FFg Goex powder.

I don't want to buy any more powder. I am getting too much feedback from 10 different sites. I am just reading posts, this is the only one I have joined because people here know cannons inside and out.

Can someone tell me using Goex cannon powder, what size ball to shoot, how to load a ball, from start to finish, how to load shot, what other acessories to get, Does the ball need to be patched or just drop it in?  I have spent more in stuff for it than I paid for it.

I just need some one on one contact to put this to rest.

Thank so very much

Jack

[Double D]

You can get the balls and patches you need from Track of the Wolf. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/TableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=25&styleID=58&PageSize=25&Page=3

Go ahead and use the Cannon grade for now. Nothing wrong with that.  

If you refer to GOEX's load chart http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html you will find they suggest FFg in a range of 70-80 powder measure setting for .69.  Matthew Switlik suggests in his book that you reduce loads ridiculously to start.  I suggest you start  at 40 grains and work up.

In the small cannon, the ball can go in tight.  One inch or larger should have windage.  The .690 ball will work but may lead. You might need a lubricated over powder wad with bare ball.   For a .678 ball you will need a .010 patch  to start.
 
Procedures for shooting my little cannon is different than shooting my larger cannons and is different than shooting big cannons. For this discussion your cannon is a little cannon.

Tools I use for shooting my little cannon-.50 cal

I have two ramrods.  One for seating ball.  A second rod has a old 410 bore brush on the end that I use to swab the bore. You might try a 20 guage brush.  An old wore out brush works better for this than a new brush.  I also have a small 17 cal bore brush on a home made handle for cleaning the vent.  A vent pick made from a round wooden tooth pick or brass rod is also useful.

I will go through my loading and shooting process for you. Before I go to the range, I premeasure my powder  and put them in small plastic tubes.

The procedure.

1. Clear the vent with the vent brush.  
 
2 Wrap a clean dry patch around the 410 brush with the patch over lapping the end of the brush. Run the brush down the bore to wipe and dry the bore, and verify the bore is clear.  There should be a mark on the rod showing how deep the rod goes in on an empty barrel.

3. Insert the vent pick in the vent. If you use a fuse or quill, you can use that instead. This will keep the powder from going out the vent hole when the barrel is charged.

4. Tip the barrel up and pour the premeasured charge down the bore. Be very careful to control the muzzle when you do this and not let the muzzle point at you or anyone else.

5.  Place a patch centered over the bore and place a ball on the patch, and seat the ball on the charge.  The seating rod should have a mark on it showing when the ball is fully seated.

6.  Place the gun back on line and if not using fuse or quill, prime the vent.

7.  Aim the gun

8. Fire

9 clear the vent with the vent brush

10. Wrap a wet cleaning patch around the bore brush and swab the bore.

11. Wrap a dry patch around the bore brush and dry the bore.

12 Load

You still have time to get in on the postal shoot.  Postal Shoot .  There is a link in the postal shoot post to aiming a cannon.

If you have any questions do ask them here. We will be glad to help.

[Jackguns]

Thanks for the reply.

Is it going to change pressure dynamics using cannon powder vs ffg in a bad way or is it a performance issue? Also I tried putting in a 12 guage slug for fit and it touched the sides of the insert at the muzzle but could be finger pushed down the barrel. Is that kind of what you want or do you want to patch it for a tighter fit like a muzzleloader rifle?



Thanks again very much

[Cannoneer]

Welcome to the forum Jackguns; could you post a photo of your cannon here? Are there any markings on the barrel near the closed end of the tube?

I just read your second post Jack; forget about the slug, and follow Double D's recommendations.

[Jackguns]

ok forget about the slug. I will order balls and patchs from Track of the Wolf. I am concerned over the powder now. I know a larger granules will burn slower and am wondering what that means in a small cannon. I can send you a pix flix of it from a cellphone. Right now I am camera less but will work on it. Looks like to me it is a Napolean III and has about 5/8 inch bolts going through wood frame into eack side of  a brass collar and into the barrel. I don't see any marking on the barrel.

Thanks alot

Jack

[Cannoneer]

Jack, I've got a steel barreled 15-inch, .69 caliber Napoleon manufactured by a Spanish company, and I fire a patched ball usually with FFg. 

[Double D]

Us the Cannon grade until you run out.  Then use Fg or FFg next time.  Pressures are always something to be be concerned about , but in these small charges as long  as you reduce your charge and work up when you change powder you will be just fine.

For now like BoomJ says stick with round ball.  Once you learn your gun then you can experiment.

[Jackguns]

Thanks for all the comments and expertise. Get back at ya when supplies arrive. I took a pic of this small fry and also took it apart. The two bolts go thru the wood carriage on each side of the barrel and screw into a brass collar and dead ends against the barrel. It appears the collar squeezes the barrel tight cause when I loosen the 2 bolts the barrel slides out for cleaning. We shall see. Anyway a big thanks

[Double D]

Can you attach full size pictures instead of thumbnails.

[RocklockI]

Hi and welcome !

What is the breech dia. on this gun ?
 
I would shoot bare balls from it at first , this is because these things do get residue in them . It is very easy to get a ball stuck if you are patching them .

once you kinda figure things out then patch them for accuracy sake if you want . If you are using lead balls they can be screwed into and pulled .

If you are using steel ........you have a real problem .

Gary

[Jackguns]

Thanks for the welcome and to all. The breech is 1.8".   With no trunions welded on, this thing bothers me.

Got to go offline but will get back with a real camera pics tomorrow maybe.  Just never been around cannons other than the net. Shot and own alot of other things, but I want to be right, just how I am.  The idea of 2 bolts going thru a brass collar and anchoring a barrel bothers me too., But I am smart enough to add a foot of fuse and run a while. If the barrel, were to come loose looks like to me it would blow backwards towards the rear of the carriage. I have no clue who made it. I bought it off the net. Looks like he was trying to make a decorative piece also capable of firing. He fired it cause I got the rest of his balls fuse and powder. He used 1/2 pound of fffg in it with 54 cal balls. So he used it more than a few times, albeit wrong.

Thing is I got it from another guy who he sold it to and had no information about the thing

Take care

[Zulu]

Will a 14" barrel in .69 caliber even hold 1/2 pound of powder?
Zulu

[Double D]

Z,

What I think he is saying over time he fired  1/2 pound...I hope.

[Zulu]

Z,

What I think he is saying over time he fired  1/2 pound...I hope.

I knew that.
zulu

[Double D]

Z,

What I think he is saying over time he fired  1/2 pound...I hope.

I knew that.
zulu

On first read I didn't.

[RocklockI]

At 1.8" breech dia. you are over the 1/3 rule with a bore of .69" , if i was you i would post pics of it B4 shooting it .

Gary

[Jackguns]

attempted pic, man I am getting depressed over this buy

[Double D]

attempted pic, man I am getting depressed over this buy

Why?

Shoot it.

[RocklockI]

who ever built that thing was thinking !

Did you notice the barrel overtravel stop that is machined into the muzzle ? It looks to me like the barrel would get 'caught' by the interferance of the muzzle and brass collar ?

Gary

eta ,... on second look the muzzle might fly right through the brass trunion ring 

[Jackguns]

Great!  That's what I had hoped to hear. I mean let's face it, it is a sad looking cannon. I see some room for improvements and the design without trunions to me is less than desireable, but as long as the brass collar don't split, and I don't think it will, I think it will be ok. I have seen too many smaller type cannons with 1" and larger bores now to be satified with mine. My plan is to start with a 40 gr. blank load. Then I want to work up to a max blank load so from what I read would probably be about 120 gr or so. I am more interested in testing the catastropic failure factor of the thing first. I have already tried 40 gr. of fffg and wadding about a month ago and it was ok.  From there I will start out at at  40 gr patched ball load and work up 5 gr at a time.  I would not be heartbroken if something happened because I won't stand withing 100  yards of it until I am sure, but after paying for all the powder, fuse, balls, patchs, hazmat fees, shipping etc. I would like to see it do something.

My goal is to have at least a golf ball size cannon with a long barrel and big wheels. I am the kind that likes big bangs and alot of smoke .   

Thanks again

Jack

[Double D]

Great!  That's what I had hoped to hear. I mean let's face it, it is a sad looking cannon.

We have seen worse, far worse.

I see some room for improvements and the design without trunions to me is less than desireable, but as long as the brass collar don't split, and I don't think it will, I think it will be ok.

With reasonable care you should be fine.

I have seen too many smaller type cannons with 1" and larger bores now to be satified with mine.

Nothing wrong with that.

My plan is to start with a 40 gr. blank load. Then I want to work up to a max blank load so from what I read would probably be about 120 gr or so.  I am more interested in testing the catastropic failure factor of the thing first. I have already tried 40 gr. of fffg and wadding about a month ago and it was ok.  From there I will start out at at  40 gr patched ball load and work up 5 gr at a time.

Why, whats the point?  If you want to reproof the gun, reproof the gun.  Dixie Gunworks suggests a proof load of a double charge and two balls.  Shoot that one time and if nothing breaks get to shooting.

I would not be heartbroken if something happened because I won't stand withing 100  yards of it until I am sure, but after paying for all the powder, fuse, balls, patchs, hazmat fees, shipping etc. I would like to see it do something.

If after proofing you still won't stand by it, check with our sponsors for you next cannon.  Right now I am working on trying to get a cannon from each of our sponsors.  Last years shooter was my Dom Dictator. This year it was the SAMCC cannon from Brooks.  I am retired now and have got a fall harvest job just to buy a Seacoast cannon.  Put a hint into Santa Wife for a HRM cannon.

No shortage of cannons around here.

My goal is to have at least a golf ball size cannon with a long barrel and big wheels. I am the kind that likes big bangs and alot of smoke .  

Thanks again

Jack

Admirable goals!  We can help you!

[RocklockI]

Great!  That's what I had hoped to hear. I mean let's face it, it is a sad looking cannon. I see some room for improvements and the design without trunions to me is less than desireable, but as long as the brass collar don't split, and I don't think it will, I think it will be ok. I have seen too many smaller type cannons with 1" and larger bores now to be satified with mine. My plan is to start with a 40 gr. blank load. Then I want to work up to a max blank load so from what I read would probably be about 120 gr or so. I am more interested in testing the catastropic failure factor of the thing first. I have already tried 40 gr. of fffg and wadding about a month ago and it was ok.  From there I will start out at at  40 gr patched ball load and work up 5 gr at a time.  I would not be heartbroken if something happened because I won't stand withing 100  yards of it until I am sure, but after paying for all the powder, fuse, balls, patchs, hazmat fees, shipping etc. I would like to see it do something.
My goal is to have at least a golf ball size cannon with a long barrel and big wheels. I am the kind that likes big bangs and alot of smoke .  

Thanks again

Jack

Dont do it Jack !

Do not !!!! Not BLOW up your first cannon ! would you like to have your first car back ? How about your first gun ?

It is a nice little gun that someone put some work into . Use it for a salute gun after firing a few ball shots to impress your buddies .

Buy a "shooter" and keep on going

wouldnt you like to see it "do something" 25 years from now too ?

[Cannoneer]

It is got a 14" barrel with a steel  insert that ca;ipers out at .690 inside the insert muzzle.

Jack,
I'm not arguing that your gun doesn't have a steel liner, because I can't see a clear pic of the muzzle, but the two larger photos you posted look like the barrel itself is made of steel; are you sure it has a steel sleeve inserted inside a larger bore?

[Jackguns]

Hello Boom J

Sorry for being absent.. Computer went down for days until now. Yea, it is a steel barrel with a non seamed steel liner.  Over the weekend I got up to 200 gr of Goex cannon powder with a small cardboard wad just to get the thing to move backwards 8". Loads prior to that just kinda made it sit there. I realize when the balls arrive I will have to start out loads again but I was determined to get the thing to roll backwards and 160-180 gr just did not achieve it. I started at 70. Even with that boom, I was not impressed. While it did have a deep sounding boom that echoed off the woods, my 410 shotgun made as much noise. Not a whole lot of powder residue left and it wasn"t all that much smoke either. But she held her own without a whole lot of bother, seems like to me. I am curious to see what a patched ball and 70 gr will do. Maybe that will make her breath fire, smoke and roll.

Did note that it had what appeared to have 3 kinda small flag type symbals on the brass collar. Don't know what that means

Thanks

Jack

[Cannoneer]

Jack,
When you start to fire a patched ball (even with 70 gr) you'll notice recoil.

[Jackguns]

I figured. I hope alittle more noise and smoke too    Whats the max blank load you ever put in your .69

[Cannoneer]

I've been thinking on that and I'm sure that on more than a few occasions it was fired with around 400 gr of 2F behind a wad, but keep in mind that I was a teen when I first got this cannon, I certainly wouldn't do that today, and I really should have known better back then too.