cr-carbine arrives

[450mar]

Well just picked up my LIL Buff and after all the initial fondling was done,went out and shot a few rounds through it to see if I got good or bad chamber,well count me in the bad chamber group,shooting a medium load 250 cast handload about 1000fps,my cases are balloned out 15 thousands,not the end of the world but discouraging none the less,............

Was wondering tacklebury how far out was your fired brass? mine resizes easy nuff, just hate to think I will have to trim more often,and lose brass life.....maybe wont be that bad, anyone out there think 15 thou. is to much??

[petemi]

I need to check mine out.  I haven't reloaded any .45s as yet, but I'm gonna go down and check the brass, and if mine is anywhere near that far out, it's going back to the factory.  It shoots very well, and I like it, but like you, I don't want to keep buying brass for it.  I was unaware of the problem until last week and I was busy and then fluebedbound.  I'm going down to the bench now to check it and will let ya know what I find.

Pete

Well I'm back.  My Lee manual says neck size should be .454 and my fired brass is .453, so I guess I've got no probelm.  Thanks for reminding me to check it. 

[450mar]

My neck size is .475 on fired brass,My nosler manual says .480 for outside Dia. the ballooning is just up from the case head you can see it without having to measure it,I tried to slip one in my Ruger pistol and it went a little more than half way then stopped,you could see that it was going no more.

You would think that if its going to be a bad chamber it would be bad the whole length.

Alright everyone is this acceptable chamber dimensions? or did I get a lemon?

Love the little booger already,even with the birth defect........
 

[MSP Ret]

Too bad you could not made lemonade. I suggest you send it back, and ask for a call tag so they pay the shipping. What the heck is so hard for them to make a parallel chamber in a straight pistol chambering?. Of course there also was the overbored .44 Mag of early times and the excessive headspace 7.62x39. I like Handis very much and have "more than one", but it never ceases to amaze me of the problems they put out occaisionally and then thier reluctance to rectify the problem at the production level. Someone in control needs a good kick in the pants....<><....

[450mar]

Thats what is hard for me to understand,I am no machinist but how does something get machined oblong?you would think that if something measures right on both ends how does it get off in the middle?? 

[petemi]

I just talked to Tim, and he said I was looking in the wrong place.  I needed to check above the case head.  I did, and thought I could see a visible bulge, but the book said .480 inside and I couldn't measure that deep so I did the outside at the "bulge" and it was .483, so I still think I'm good to go.

Pete

[450mar]

Ok a resized case using Dillon dies,and Starline brass measures .475 at the case head (I pushed a little to hard on the caliper wheel on my first measurement)no matter if it has been fired or not, the ballooning measures .485 that  puts me out 5 thou.  not 10  I never allowed for any expansion of the case at all on my first measurement and went off the case head dimension compared to the ballooning hence the 15 thou. DUH!!

 Well after looking like a complete moron,after all said and done my chamber is 5 thou.over, is that to much? I measured my Ruger spent case with the same ammo and it measures an even .480 all the way up to the case head and that measures .475

 It caught me funny because it was so noticeable when I extracted it from the gun,because its just a bulge and the goes back to .480 the rest of the way to the case mouth?

[GrampaMike]

I use 454 Casull cases for 45 Colt.  I trim the 454 cases to 45 Colt length so I can shoot 30K PSI loads without worry of the case pressure.  Would this help any with these chambers?  Have not noticed any fired brass being any bigger.

[gcrank1]

FWIW, I dont care for a chamber that is big enough to cause a visible 'bulge' when fire formed. We have SAAMI specs for reason. That said, there are ways to use out of spec. chamberd guns, but you will get reduced case life if you always resize.
Does the fired brass rechamber in different positions or only the way it came out?
Is it OK at the case mouth, just oversize from middle toward the base?
What does your gut tell you about this deal?

[guns-o-fun]

This was the problem I had once I had Wayne rechamber my 45LC CR to 454.  When I was loading for it as a 45 with only middle of the road load levels I saw no problem.  Once chambered to the higher pressure round - factory Hornady ammo did exactly what you are describing.  There was pronounced bulging at the join between the web of the case and the case head - right where you would expect a separation to eventually occur.  I haven't really seen this with any of my other handi rilfes, including my 500 Smith.  The 454 reamer did not even touch the back of the chamber at all.  I don't know why H&R would have such a problem with this particular caliber?? ??  Wayne was kind enough to offer to rechamber mine to a 50 Alaskan and rebore at a reduced price, even though the problem was obviously with H&R, not him.

[quickdtoo]

I just checked a couple Hornady Colt cases that were fired with TC/Ruger max loads of Lil'gun under the 250gr SST, .4825".

Tim

[petemi]

I don't really understand all of this.  It can't be rocket science for H&R to set it up and do it right the first time

Pete

[450mar]

 I think that is why they are not offering the 45 lc as a conversion barrel anymore, is because they know a lot of out of spec barrels made it into the publics hands,and they would almost have to recall the whole line if they came out and said so........

 I am sure the guns are 100% safe and if I were RICH and could to afford to shoot only factory ammo in it,I wouldn't care because it seems to have accuracy potential,

 But I am not rich that is why I handload,so anything that gives me the thought of wearing out the brass quicker even if it don't....(I don't know for sure how much life this will take away from my brass if any??)......But I do know it cant help.

 So now if H&R is not going to do anything about it,(as tacklebury's case proves) How long is CDNN going to be willing to swap me guns until I find one I like?? Hell they may not switch one at all,,,,,,,they don't make them they just sell them.........

 quickdtoo; you seem to know CDNN pretty well how are they about returns?

[quickdtoo]

Dunno, never bought anything from them that needed returning, sorry. 

Tim

[450mar]

 Hey Tim,what are those two hex head screws they sent with my rifle for,I havent taken it apart yet but I dont see any screws on the rifle anywhere?

[quickdtoo]

That's probably the rest of the chamber tightener they didn't send!! 

Tim

[450mar]

No I think they just forgot to drill and tap it

[quickdtoo]

It's not drilled and tapped for a scope rail? That's a first. 

Tim

[450mar]

  I meant those two screws were the chamber tightener,and they forgot to drill and tap for them

 Its tapped for scope rail

[petemi]

OK, I give up, what is a "chamber tightener".  I only own more than a dozen Handis, and never knew I owned any "chamber tighteners"

Pete

[tacklebury]

Well just picked up my LIL Buff and after all the initial fondling was done,went out and shot a few rounds through it to see if I got good or bad chamber,well count me in the bad chamber group,shooting a medium load 250 cast handload about 1000fps,my cases are balloned out 15 thousands,not the end of the world but discouraging none the less,............

Was wondering tacklebury how far out was your fired brass? mine resizes easy nuff, just hate to think I will have to trim more often,and lose brass life.....maybe wont be that bad, anyone out there think 15 thou. is to much??

Sorry bout the late response, but had company and lotta stuff going on. My first carbine was blowing out the lower portion of the brass abot 25 thousandths, so a little worse than yours.  15 thousandths is still pretty significant as federal spec. states it should be within 6 thousandths.  I'd probably look into the return for exchange process.  The second one I got was about 10 thousandths, but was in the middle and locked the fired brass in the chamber, so even though closer, it was still a problem.

[tacklebury]

I use 454 Casull cases for 45 Colt.  I trim the 454 cases to 45 Colt length so I can shoot 30K PSI loads without worry of the case pressure.  Would this help any with these chambers?  Have not noticed any fired brass being any bigger.

The tougher case would reduce the expansion possibly, but there's many thousands of foot pounds of energy, so I don't think it would stop it.

[quickdtoo]

OK, I give up, what is a "chamber tightener".  I only own more than a dozen Handis, and never knew I owned any "chamber tighteners"

Pete

Tis joke Pete, like a bucket of prop wash, a non-existent creation of the imagination. 

Tim

[tacklebury]

One more thought on this.  I've discussed it with a couple smiths and they stated that the only way this should be happening in a proper chamber cutting machine would be if 1) the oiler isn't maintained and heat makes the tool bind up some, 2) chips of metal are getting caught in the end of the boring tool and cause it to wobble and 3) the tools aren't kept sharp or are too soft of a material.  I think Tim stated in a post yesterday that part of the extra barrel shortage was that H&R is shutting down one production facility to move or replace it or something.  This cold be part of what is driving it.  I do get some expansion on my .45-70 also, but it's not as severe.  These are the only two I own, so all I can go by.  It's probably on many barrels, but to varying degrees.  8(

[450mar]

Thanks for the reply tacklebury,if you read up a few posts you will see that I was playing with measuring devices under the influence again,have a hard time reading those things sober.......but my gun actually is 5 thou. out,just came in from shooting it and I like it, what a blast....hell it would be nice to have it perfect,but I am going to keep it...unless with hot loads it wont eject,off to load some barn burner's

[tacklebury]

Awesome man, I see that now, my eye musta read right past that one.  Glad you got a good one first try!  I couldn't be happier with this 3rd one I got, so it was worth the wait.  I'm picking up my box of the FTX bullets to try with my Reloader7 load.  I'm geeked about finally having it back to test this load, because even with the XTP's the RL7 was a great performer.  I am hoping to spend the day Saturday doing a ladder to test it. 

[guns-o-fun]

Here is what mine was doing.  Remember these are just factory loads - and not Buffalo Bore, either.  Wayne thought this was not necessarily a dangerous condition, but agreed that it would be mighty hard on brass.  I can't imagine what a hot handload would look like!

[450mar]

 Thats much more pronounced than mine are,but yours look like they measure the same from where it starts to the case mouth,where as mine is like a bulge?

Thats how I would think an oversized chamber should look, What does it measure at the start of the expansion?

[rsl]

You guys got me paranoid..  I took an empty case shot from my Classic Carbine and it dropped right in the cylinder of my SAA... I guess I'm ok.. 

[AtlLaw]

You guys got me paranoid..

Ain't that the truth!     Since I'm having such a hard time getting to the range to test my new BC, I'm getting mighty tempted to see if my 22 bullet trap will stop a 45!