I wonder if they work in those harsh conditions that I am always hearing about? From those good folks that are pushing the M16 and M16-what ever we are on now version? If it ain't broke it don't need fixin. So why are they always fixin it? Don't get me wrong on this guys I think the cartrige is a great one for varmints and the likes as I own several of them in a bolt gun. But I subscribe to the Elmer Keith doctrine also and that is size does count, in know the entent of the military is not to kill but to mame, but if I have someone intent on doing me harm I want em dead not mamed.