Author Topic: Testing targets, sabots, priming. (Read 2140 times)

Double D · « **on:** August 25, 2010, 03:20:08 PM »

Went to the range to today and shot the 1 inch Cairo Gun.

I tested the glued sabots.

The target, the postal shoot B17 was at 50 yards.

When fired, a separate debris cloud that may have been wood fragments was seen drifting to the ground at 10 to 15 yards in front of the gun. Because of the grass, finding the fragments was difficult. These are the only ones found.

Here are some of the holes in the target.

Looks like part of a sabot stuck to one of the balls. No sabot debris was found at the target

I also tested different type of priming. Click on the pictures to see the video's.

First vent primed with FFFFg.

Now quill.

I like the quill better, but it makes it harder to aim,

I think the B17 target will work good for next years Postal shot for guns bigger than 3/4 inch.

VA Rifleman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2010, 02:25:14 PM »

Quote from DD:
I think the B17 target will work good for next years Postal shot for guns bigger than 3/4 inch.

Hi DD,

Does the above mean we can use something like a 1.5" bore next year? That would be cool if so.

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2010, 02:58:00 PM »

Quote from: VA rifleman on August 27, 2010, 02:25:14 PM

Quote from DD:
I think the B17 target will work good for next years Postal shot for guns bigger than 3/4 inch.

Hi DD,

Does the above mean we can use something like a 1.5" bore next year? That would be cool if so.

Yep!!!! and with sights in the spirit of the Original also.

GGaskill · « **Reply #3 on:** August 27, 2010, 03:48:09 PM »

Presumably the range will be greater than 22 yards.

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2010, 03:55:56 PM »

Probably 50 yards George, maybe 100 for rifled guns...still brain storming...your thoughts?

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2010, 06:46:13 PM »

Maybe score the center of the hole instead of the edge so large bores don't get such an advantage. Or average the score of opposite edges (not sure how that would work.)

Victor3 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2010, 07:20:59 PM »

DD,

I've read here in the past where guys set up their sabots in the hope that they would stay attached to the ball all the way to the target.

Was that your intent, or did you want them to fall away?

Some say they get better accuracy when the sabot stays with the ball. $:-\$

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2010, 07:24:58 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on August 27, 2010, 06:46:13 PM

Maybe score the center of the hole instead of the edge so large bores don't get such an advantage. Or average the score of opposite edges (not sure how that would work.)

That would mean I would have to have a scoring plug for ever single caliber entered. A hit is a hit and I don't want this to turn into gamesmanship.

I may also break this down more by caliber. The SAMCC for .800 and smaller 22 yards. Smooth bore .800 to 1.75 50 yards Rifled bore 100 yards. Larger than 1.74 shoot on a different target at 100 yards.

Double D · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2010, 07:37:05 PM »

Quote from: Victor3 on August 27, 2010, 07:20:59 PM

DD,

I've read here in the past where guys set up their sabots in the hope that they would stay attached to the ball all the way to the target.

Was that your intent, or did you want them to fall away?

Some say they get better accuracy when the sabot stays with the ball. $:-\$

I was hoping they dropped away. Shooting the end grain encourage fraying and splitting. I may try some sabots made across grain. I also am going to try some other type glue. The first batch I made I had problems with the balls staying attached in my load box on the way to the range. This latest batch stick hard.......revalation!!! The first batch had lead balls not steel!!!! The glue did stick very well to the lead.

I am going to try some other less adhesive glue with the steel and cast up some more lead. Point being the lead shed the sabot and shot better than the steel with the more adhesive Elmers.

Victor3 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2010, 08:09:13 PM »

Might also be an interesting experiment to epoxy a ball on good and solid, and glue a disk of thin aluminum to the base. That might keep it from splintering and falling away (?)

Wonder if it would go straight, or keyhole with the sabot stuck to the ball?

JeffG · « **Reply #10 on:** August 28, 2010, 03:13:42 AM »

Great post, I am going to lurk to see if I can learn something!

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** August 28, 2010, 03:44:30 AM »

Jeff, you are most welcome lurk and learn. Or you can do what we are doing, try, learn and share; it's more more fun.

Victor, I may try that. A sabot that sticks to the ball will have to be durable enough to not get damaged by firing.

I got good accuracy from sabot glued to lead ball. The lead ball would not stay glued to the sabot. I suspect the sabot was separating. The steel ball stayed glued and shot horribly.

I haven't tried just masking tape yet. I am also looking at window putty. I want something that just holds the ball to the sabot and falls away when fired.

I am also looking at attaching the ball to the front of the cartridge. A variation of that is to attach the sabot and ball to the cartridge.

I also going to try loading sabot and ball loose,so the sabot will scoop up and carry the ball down the bore then drop away when it leaves the muzzle.

All good reasons to go shoot my cannon.

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** August 28, 2010, 04:01:10 AM »

Here is an interesting sidebar. A few minutes ago I tried to pop the sabots off the ones that I already have glued up. Could not do it. Even threw one down on the sidewalk and the sabot stayed on.

If I want the sabots to stay the Elmers wood glue will work. I just have to find a sabot material that doesn't break up.

robbob · « **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2010, 04:47:46 AM »

Quote from: Double D on August 28, 2010, 04:01:10 AM

I just have to find a sabot material that doesn't break up.

What about Delrin rod? From what i understand it's pretty easy to work with.

Double D · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2010, 05:59:45 AM »

Exactly what I was thinking of, but a bit expensive, unless the sabots can be recovered and reused.

1Southpaw · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2010, 06:32:22 AM »

" Seal and Peel " A window treatment for sealing storm windows . It might hold but yet separate easily ?

Double D · « **Reply #16 on:** August 28, 2010, 08:10:03 AM »

Wheel have to try it

GGaskill · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2010, 12:13:06 PM »

Plastic rod will be hard to glue to metal; no pores for the glue to seep into.

robbob · « **Reply #18 on:** August 28, 2010, 03:23:23 PM »

You are probably right. What about heating one end till it melts and imbedding a ball in it.......still might not hold....somebody's gotta try it.

Victor3 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2010, 07:59:03 PM »

Quote from: Double D on August 28, 2010, 04:01:10 AM

If I want the sabots to stay the Elmers wood glue will work. I just have to find a sabot material that doesn't break up.

I was thinking that with your existing wooden ones, maybe using a strong epoxy under the ball would strengthen the wood at the front as well as hold the ball in place. An aluminum disk at the rear should shield the wood from the blast.

Maybe using a lead ball with a little longer sabot would help stabilize it in flight?

Spuddy · « **Reply #20 on:** August 29, 2010, 02:14:14 AM »

I haven't had alot of eperience with sabots, but in my 1.75 smooth bore Parrott golf balls as well as fox balls seem to be pulled off target when I got the sabots to stay with the ball longer. I generally used two straps of masking tape to tape on the sabots. I have used two pieces wrapped once completely around the sabot and the ball. Seperation of the ball and sabot would usually occur closer to the target at 100 yards than when I used one piece of tape. When I shot at closer distances to the target, say around 60 yards, the sabots attached with two pieces of tape would hit the target as well as the balls. I do not use sabots with golf balls anymore, as they really drag the golf balls off target. Golf balls are inconsistent enough with out adding the sabots. I use sabots with Fox balls attaching them with one piece of masking tape. This seems to work well.

Double D · « **Reply #21 on:** August 29, 2010, 04:43:02 AM »

Time to re-evaluate.

Lead balls shot okay.

Lead balls with wooden sabots that wouldn't stay attached and disintegrated shot better.

Steel balls with wooden sabots that did stay attached and partially disintegrated shot poorly.

Things to check.

Steel balls with no sabot.

Steel balls with a sabot that doesn't stay attached

Steel ball with non disintigrating sabot

VA Rifleman · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2010, 07:19:39 AM »

Quote from: Double D on August 27, 2010, 02:58:00 PM

Yep!!!! and with sights in the spirit of the Original also.

Excellent!!! Ask Little Seacoast to show you guys the sabot rounds for his 2.25".

Below was modified

Hey Little Sea Coast, show the guys your 2.25" sabot rounds!!! Hmmm... I might be messing up, they could be Pete's secret weapon for the postal match.

DD,
Great R&D!!!!

regards

little seacoast · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2010, 05:40:22 AM »

One strip of 1/8" masking tape completely around the ball and sabot works to allow easy seperation. Insert ball/sabot with tape strip vertical.

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2010, 06:00:40 AM »

Sorry, I got distracted. I had to go pick up some lead for shooting the Martini.

Estimate 934 lbs. This has raised my life expectancy to age 107. I shoot about 300 480 grain Martini bullets a year. I can make 13,626 480 grian bullets from this lead. It will take me 47 years to shoot all those bullets...and every one knows when you run out of ammo you die.

Now if I could just find a pile of zinc like that for the cannons I might live for ever...George, you wanna check my math.

little seacoast · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2010, 06:06:58 AM »

Quote from: little seacoast on September 02, 2010, 05:40:22 AM

One strip of 1/8" masking tape completely around the ball and sabot works to allow easy seperation. Insert ball/sabot with tape strip vertical.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2010, 06:39:51 AM »

D,

Where are those lead cylinders from, or better yet, what are those lead cylinders made for?

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2010, 06:57:12 AM »

They are Isotope containers.

These are for transporting the radioactive seeds for treating prostrate cancer. This was an accumulation from five years and the hospital had to get rid of them. There is a story that goes with them that you can read here http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/10553

I am going to have to break down and get a 50 cal round ball mould and test this lead in my SAMCC gun.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #28 on:** September 02, 2010, 07:12:43 AM »

Well that's interesting as all heck; I wouldn't have guessed that in a million years, Douglas. The first question I had was answered when I looked at the link you posted on the other forum: Is there any danger from radiation emanating from the lead?

Double D · « **Reply #29 on:** September 02, 2010, 07:56:07 AM »

Lead is a shielding material an doesn't absorb radiation.