advice on conicals

[jls]

after the missus remarked we were out of elk steaks  I drew a cow tag for mz season. the traditions in-line said 'take me, take me'. after sorting through the bp stuff lying around i got numerous options here, no sabots. hornady 385gr hbhp,maxi-hunter 350gr, 245gr powerbelt aero tip,blackbelt295gr hp and some unknown 350gr hpsb( looks like great plains) my shots will likely be around 100-150 yds. lots of acorn, scrub oak, pine. any one have experience good, bad, indifferent on these puppies for elk. i've got until 9/10 to pick and sight in.      thanx!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        postscript; bigblock, did you find a solution to 'pancaking' with the powerbelts? just curious

[Graybeard]

I've never shot an elk but have shot a bunch of deer. I use only two bullets in my muzzle loaders they are the original Buffalo Bullet and the copy of it the Hornady Great Plains bullet. I've used them in both .50 and .54 and so long as they are made I'll likely use no other.

I guess as big and tough as elk are the Lee Conical might be as good or better choice as it has no hollow point.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Yes i did find the solution.  Man you are cutting it close!

What traditions do you have? I had the traditions evolution and it loved 90gr pyrodex RS with the .501" Thor.

What ever you do, do NOT use the 245gr Powerbelts. Much much to light!

Check out either the 300 or the 338gr Powerbelt, they should be nicely with 80-100gr Powder

[jls]

it's the el cheapo tracker. yeh, i know, most are suited more for deer sized  stuff. i'am playing with T7 2ffg loose till my bh209 comes in at walsenburg. just was'nt sure what kind of terminal performance to expect from some of them.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

JLS where you from?

[Landngroove]

I would consider using Thompson Center Maxi Balls. Either 320, or 370 grain. These are made for big game.

[jls]

BB455, my wife and i have a place north of aguilar. landandgrove, i do have some of those around somewhere, just need to find em.  thanx guys, as usual i always get the straight scoop on stuff you can't find elsewhere.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

oh okay, thought i seen your handle before.  Is Kay's sporting goods now stocking BH209? I was in there last week or the week before and didnt see any Blackhorn.

[jls]

she said she was putting a powder order in today so maybe next tues or wed. hopefully she gets more than 1 or 2 jugs.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

A case would be better!! Along with some new ammo, she doesnt have to much to choose from lately. And while i am thinking,  CCI or remington sts primers. Had zero 209 primers when i asked.  Ever since Elite Sporting Goods moved out of Raton, pickings have been real slim lately.

[indymadcaster]

   i make my own    using a 500 grain  .515 dia lee  mold casting pure lead and hint of solder and a .512 .509  .501 (honed to .504)push thru sizing dies  and pan lube them with  3lbs regular crisco and 1.5lbs beeswax then size them in steps    shoot FANTASTIC with 70-80 grains of powder  (plastic purple sabot for a 54)  and i have no doubt it will fell ANYTHING in our country to hunt with good shot placement   most guns its a push in recoil NOT a sharp snap
 all of it costs 60.00 bucks and I have a lifetime supply in a little time        Its funny to see people  watch me load one of these!!!!!!!!

            shot lots of deer with them and i have NEVER recovered one!!!!!i think they would be fine on elk or moose

[Bigeasy]

JLS

I have never shot an elk with a black powder rifle, but I have shot a few big Maine deer using a 50 and 54 sidelock using the Hornady Great Plains Bullet, and it has worked fine, usually leaving an exit hole.

I would think either it, or the T/C conical would work well.  I would choose whatever one shot most accurately from my rifle, concentrating on heavy bullet weights for maximum penetration.  I have about zero experience with light weight sabots, but I would think a lighter weight handgun bullet, designed to open up on deer might not offer as much penetration.

It may boil down to how well your rifle handles heavy slugs.  If you cant get the accuracy you want, then look for a good controlled expansion sabot bullet, like the Nosler or Barnes in the heavier weights.  The slight trajectory advantage of a faster, lighter bullet does not mean much as long as you know where your rifle is hitting with whatever load your are using, at the ranges you anticipate.  Good luck..

Larry

[jls]

Bigeasy, Indy, thanxs. unfortunely no sabots in co. or pellets which will hopefully change somewhere in the future. BB455, I know! i always enjoyed my ride over the pass with mama to get what i needed. oh well. have to deal with what we can get, when we can get it.

[Busta]

I have shot Elk in Colorado with a muzzleloader and witnessed others first hand. I would steer clear of the Hollow Pointed/Aero Tipped PowerBelts and any of the hollow pointed conicals such as the Buffalo Bullet and Hornady Great Plains. Elk have about 5x the bone and muscle mass of even large Whitetails, don't go after them with wimpy bullets. I have witnessed a PowerBelt failure first hand at 28 yards, and my testing shows the 385 gr Buffalo Bullet/Great Plains conicals with the hollow point/hollow base are actually worse. If you hit the shoulder knuckle on an elk, approximately the size of a baseball, it has about 5x the mass of a large Whitetails that is approximately the size of a golf ball.

Get yourself some solid lead bullets, such as the No Excuses, White Super Slugs or Power Punches. Bullshop also makes some excellent Conicals, but he only offers them from October through April, after he has earned his living for the year.

If you want to go with a more modern type conical, get the 300 gr THOR all copper Barnes based bullet, or the 350 gr Hornady FPB.

Colorado has finally removed the bullet length restriction of no longer than 2x the bore diameter, so any length bullet is now legal for Elk as long as it is the minimum weight of 170 grains and at least .50 caliber or larger.

Here is some good Elk medicine. L-R: 350 gr Hornady FPB, 430 gr White Super Slug, 440 gr White Power Punch, 460 gr No Excuses/460 gr NEx Bullshop (same bullet), and the 480 gr White Super Slug.



Put a wad like this Vegetable Fiber Gasket Wad between the powder and bullet, it will seal out the weather and give you better consistancy.


Groups like these are possible with BH209 powder. Groups shot with NEF Huntsman, .502" bore and .503" bullets.













X= Cold Clean Bore or fouling shot.


The 430 gr White Super Slug plowed through the shoulder knuckle of this 5x5 taking out the lungs and top of the heart. Don't try that with a wimpy bullet. If you look real close you can see the entrance wound, it only looks high due to the angle of the pic and the way the bull is laying.


Wimpy bullets.



430 gr White Super Slug, same used to take the above bull from same test media as above wimply bullets. Actual bullet was not recovered.


350 gr Hornady FPB, taken from the same test media as the above wimpy bullets.



Any questions?

[moto357]

I have a number of large conicals I wouldn't mind helping you out with if you are interested
Busta is also right on with his recomendations.. all fine shooting bullets!

first weighs 495gr second weighs 590gr

[jls]

busta,moto, thanx. after some late nite digging I found  some solid slugs that look like the no excuses. have no idea how long i've had them or where i got them, no matter, I'll stick em on a scale and weigh em. I walked right past the hornady fpb in the store. I might go back and get them as I need to work a load up pretty quick. And on top of all this, I have to aclimate to shooting lefty now. I suffered 2 injuries to my right eye over the past years and the cornea is so scarred that new bi-focals can't get rid of the fuzzies. iron sights? forget it. have to do it left handed now. the elk stand a better chance this year

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

what rifle will u be shooting?

[jls]

Traditions Tracker. I not real impressed but this was a price driven purchase when I gave my cva firebolt to my one son to use out of state. this was one time I should have REALLY looked at what I was getting. The entire bolt locks back and slams forward when you squeeze one off. my cva had an actual striker in the bolt. you can carry it with the bolt closed, no primer but cocking sounds like a branch breaking or locked back with primer in or out and everything is exposed to the weather and not real safe either even with the safety on. buyer beware. I won't make that mistake again. maybe I can trade the kid 

[Busta]

If it is a 1:28 twist, the 440 gr bullets seem to work best, but the 460's are no slouches. If it is a slower twist, the lighter bullets will probably shoot better. Just check your Owner Manual for maximum powder and bullet weights, so you don't exceed them. Some rifles have bullet weight maximums around 400 gr.

Just so you know, that was a 348 gr PowerBelt, and a 385 gr Hornady Great Plains in the wimpy bullet section above. The 300 gr THOR and 350 gr Hornady FPB are better choices in sub 400 gr bullets. The heavy 430 to 480 gr conicals are the best choices IMO. Those big bullets moto357 posted are great bullets, but you need a faster twist such as a White 1:24 to stabilize them best.

Good luck this fall, wish I was going.