Author Topic: Proclamation Against Terrorism  (Read 1502 times)

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Offline powderman

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2010, 01:39:04 PM »
He won't give you a straight answer, I've been asking for years. An educated guess is because thats what muslims do.

Why - it TM7 a Muslim?

My guess would be - why he doesn't give you a straight answer? - is that it is tantamount to answering that old 'are you still beating your wife?' question.



YT. Big difference, we all await his non answer. POWDERMAN.  :D :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2010, 04:54:33 AM »
Yellowtail should just ask TM directly why TM has a big hate of western culture, mores, and religion.  I have no idea why.  

Alright, I'll give it a try:

TM7 - why do you have such a big hate of western culture, mores, and religion???
.
I don't. I have a great respect and love for our western culture, our country, and True Christianity and hope we get all our values back as soon as possible.
  


But from your posts it would seem that western culture and Christianity are the cause of all the problems and faults of the mohammedeans.  And that anyone who in any way questions anything about what the mohammedeans do is an "islamophobe" and a bigot.  Nice.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline powderman

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2010, 07:02:38 AM »
Quote
...ignore facts
...attempt to silence critics with the usual charges (as in the question above), and name calling, ridicule
...emotionalize and goad topic
...change the subject
...question motives and make racial accusations
...act incredulous and indignant
...play dumb and give false evidence
...time constant and teamwork




tm. You pretty well described yourself.
SUBJOE. You are right as always. 
yellowtail. Did you understand all of that, or any of it??? POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2010, 07:10:26 AM »
Since TM7 seems to have either missed or has ignored the parts of that fatwa that contextualize, and therefore excuse, the actions of the terroist thugs while at the same time condemning their actions, I am going though it and picking out most of them.

From the linked article:

Quote
It may be true that among the fundamental local, national and international factors underpinning terrorism on a global level include: the injustices being currently meted out to the Muslims in certain matters, the apparent double standards displayed by the main powers, and their open-ended and long-term military engagements in a number of countries under the pretext of eliminating terror.


Waaaaaa!  It is those evil westerners that drive them to it!


Quote
Furthermore, the Western media is wont of over-reporting incidents of terrorism and extremism around the Muslim world, and does not at all highlight the positive and constructive aspects of Islam, its peaceful teachings and philanthropic philosophy and orientation. Moreover, it does not report the abhorrence, condemnation and opposition prevalent within Muslim communities towards extremists, militants and terrorists. Bracketing both Islam and terrorism together has led only to negative consequences. The western mind conjures up images of terrorism and extremism at the merest mention of the word 'Islam', leaving Western-bred and educated Muslim youth in a most difficult position, and leaving them ever more puzzled. In fact, the present generation of young Muslims all over the Islamic world is falling victim to intellectual confusion, as well as deterioration in the practical fields and in the domain of beliefs and religious tenets.

Waaaaaaa!  It is the fault of the west!  The evil media reports on attrocities by mohammdeans the same way it does those of infidels, and that is unfair!

Quote
Thus, Western policies are instrumental in producing and inducting potential terrorist recruits and supporters, with no end in sight.

Yet another whine blaming the west for terrorism.

Quote
Moreover, these circumstances are heightening tension, and creating an increasingly large deficit of trust between the Islamic and the Western worlds. The upsurge in terrorism is paving the way for greater foreign interference in and pressure on the Muslim states.

But it is just fine for mohammedean states to pressure the west to create duel sets of laws, one of dhimmies and one for mohammedeans.  

Quote
We do not mean to condone or approve the unpopular and unwise policies of global powers through this edict, nor do we aim to justify the wrong policies of any government, including that of Pakistan.

More blaming the west for the faults of islam.

Quote
They should know that, as good intention can never prove an unlawful act justified, pious designs can never prove blasphemy as righteousness, and virtuous objectives can never prove an impure act wholesome; that the intention to perform Jihad, in the same way, can never prove violence and terrorism lawful and permissible. The intention to protect Islam, to erect a defence against foreign aggression and avenge the wrongs and excesses inflicted upon the Muslim Umma is one thing, but the brutal mass murder of innocent citizens, destruction of civil property, ruthless target killings and the destruction of mosques and markets and businesses is altogether a different debacle. The former can never prove the latter lawful. The one has nothing to do with the other; there is no relevance and congruity between the two. Terrorism, carnage and mass destruction can never be justified in the name of any intention of enforcing Islamic commands and its judicial system. Nor can these reprehensible activities be any exception to the rule, or be overlooked, or forgiven.
 
An in-depth study of the Qur’an and Hadith makes one resolutely establish that Islam declares the realisation of lawful objectives conditional upon lawful means only, the attainment of noble targets only through permissible ways and reaching sacred objectives by treading only the righteous paths. A sacred goal can never be achieved by following an evil and criminal path.

Again contextualizing and excusing the motives, even praising them, blaming the dar al-Harb for the problems of islam.  This guy is a master at sending mixed messages.  Yes, he condemns the means, but at the same time praises the intention.  

Quote
The designs of an exalted and pious person cannot be materialised by adopting blasphemous methodology

Now the terrorists are "exalted and pious."

Quote
The people who base their argument on the Hadith, ‘actions are judged according to intentions,’ in order to justify their brutal ways and cursed means, make false and heretic claims. They cannot set a wrong thing right. This Hadith signifies only those actions that are proven pious, permissible and lawful. Their acceptability has been based on trueness of intention. If the intention is pure, they will be accepted, or else they will be rejected. If the intention is not good, or the coveted intention does not exist, the actions will not be considered acts of worship, despite their apparent righteous value.  They will be rejected or discredited. But the actions that are forbidden, unjust, unlawful and blasphemous cannot be made permissible or lawful or just and creditable by even extremely good intentions joined together.

Once again, praising the intentions of the thugs against the evil west, but condemning the actions.  

So this isn't the solid denunciation we are led to believe it is.  It is a nuanced piece, at least from the summary given, that condemns the west for "oppressing" islam (more like daring to resist being taken over, and showing the history of islam), praising the intentions of the terrorist thugs, but condemning their methods.  

Are there many good and admirable things in it? Yes, there are, and I have never said otherwise.  What I have tried to do was show what was not being talked about, the tone of "but they are such good boys!  Well intentioned even though misguided" guff that we hear when a gang-banger is killed by the cops after he has shot up a party or something. Never his fault, he was, after all, a good boy and trying to turn his life around.  It is always the fault of society or the cops, the schools maybe, anyone but the thug.  

ADDED:  Now I wait while TM forms a reply calling me a bigot, islamophobe, "fundie" etc. 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2010, 10:00:38 AM »


BTW
Quote
Are there many good and admirable things in it? Yes, there are, and I have never said otherwise.
Here you're being disingenous...you et al...insinuated that this proclamation was entirely meritless, another lie and cover. Here's what you said:

what lies are you thinking of? Be specific?


That the mohammedean religion does not teach prosetelization through the sword. 
That the mohammedean religion is totally peaceful.
That the mohammedean religion treats its followers and unbelievers the same.
That the mohammedean scriptures and traditions don't tell its followers to put unbelievers to death.



In addition to these misinfos, you of course  took your usual insinuating potshots at me..with team support.... Why do you practice this disnformation process....?  Do you have something you want unrevealed, or do you have a curious interest in some truth on a few things, or do you work for an org unwilling to have truth let out and what is their reason?



..TM7
.
.

Oh, nice cut and paste job.  Yellow was asking why lies TM7 was spreading that I was referring to, and now TM7 makes it seem as if I was saying those about the fatwa.  Nice job...and a perfect illustration of one of the ways you lie.  Nicely done. 

How about showing where I have said that the fatwa is entirely meritless, another lie and cover. Without having to cut and paste as you did.

Let's see:

I wrote:
Quote
Rather impressive document.  So much verbiage to say, basically, "even though western and non-muslim nations drive them to it, there is no excuse for the terrorists." 
 

Nope, that isn't calling it entirely meritless, another lie and cover.  Just pointing out what you didn't say about it.

How about when I said:

Quote
Did you happen to notice how many times he blamed the west and other non-mohammedean states/cultures for driving them to it?  Did you even bother to read it?  Yeah, great, he pulled up a lot of koranic texts and traditions saying how the followers of mohammed should feed everyone else dates, candied figs, and coffee.  But those are negated by the later verses about cutting off their hands and such.  Also, he never bothered to define what was meant in his proof texts by phrases such as "if they come in peace."  Historically, that means that if they accept being subjugated by those who profess islam they get to live as about 4th rate residents of the lands that islam has brought under the caliphate. 

Not there either.  Pointing out things he didn't say, but still not saying what you claim I said.

Quote
So, you accept then, his premise that it is quite understandable that the terrorists do what they do, because they have been driven to it by western nations.  Even though they should be condemned for what they do. 

I agree, it is great that he comes out and says that the thugs should be eliminated from the face of the earth (see the CBC video of him - also note that he lives in Canada, keeps his location secret, and would only meet with CBC reporters at a secret location).  I'm saying that he should have left it at "The thugs should be eliminated, they are perverting Islam."  Rather than saying over and over that the west and non-mohammedeans are to blame.  By including that, he muddies the waters and gives credence to the thugs at the same time he condemns them.  Mixed message there.

Nope.


There is this:

Quote
Hmmm...I never said it wasn't a good deal or wasn't worth study, sorry.  Your reading comprehension seems to be about on par with your ability to find things on line.  What I have been saying, and you can't seem to understand, is that throughout this scholarly tome, especially in the bit you posted the link to, at the same time this guy is condemning the acts of terrorism, he is at the same time excusing them as understandable because of the eeeee--vviiill west.

But, do keep up with your lies and distortions.  It can be entertaining to see into what forms you manage to twist things.  I guess when people like you have only hate and bigotry to support your claims, that is all you can do.

Hmmmm.....and that seems to be in line with the koranic injunctions when dealing with those who refuse to bow to mohammed, it is perfectly acceptable, even encouraged, to lie, distort, and mislead.  Look it up, it is there plain as day.

In which I say that TM7s words "seem(s) to be in line with the koranic injunctions when dealing with those who refuse to bow to mohammed, it is perfectly acceptable, even encouraged, to lie, distort, and mislead. "

Wow!  Looks like I never said about the fatwa what you claim I said about it.  Why am I not surprised?
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2010, 12:08:30 PM »
TM just come clean, you hate Jews, Christians and the United States of America, we can all see that. Confession is good for your soul.

Am I the only one who has noticed that when a topic about the cult of islam comes up old TM always tries to turn it on the Jews, Christians or America?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline powderman

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2010, 01:15:11 PM »
BILLY. Nope, most of us see it too.
SUBJOE. The only thing you need to remember about tm is this. America, Jews, Israel, Christians = BAD. Godless ones = GOOD. Really quite simple. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2010, 04:26:40 PM »
TM I'm just asking a question.

It is kind of wierd how no matter what, when islam is brought up in a bad light, you always try to turn the discussion to how the Jews, Christians, Americans are the bad guys. TM why don't you start a thread about the evils of these groups instead of trying to mislead EVERY thread on the cult of islam.?

I bet Joseph Geobels used the same tatics in WW2 era Germany. Are you a study of his?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2010, 04:41:26 PM »
TM I'm just asking a question. I bet Joseph Geobels used the same tatics in WW2 era Germany. Are you a study of his?
Whether he is or not, I'll bet he can probably spell Goebbels AND progressive - I don't have that high of an expectation for you, Billy!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2010, 04:44:20 PM »
Wow yellow now you are the grammar and spelling police.  :D   I would acuse you of being old TM's kid, but then he would have had to have procreated.  :D ;D :D ;D
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline powderman

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Re: Proclamation Against Terrorism
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2010, 05:19:17 PM »
Quote
What should be noticed is that when ever discussions about islam come up IT IS INEXTRICTABLELY LINKED WITH THE OTHER 2 ABRAHAMIC RELATIONS, DUH!



tm. No, they are not. You simply bring up Jews and Christians to take the heat off your muzzie friends. Christians and Jews have nothing to do with making the Godless ones murder innocents, they do that all on their own, and willfully.  POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm