Proclamation Against Terrorism

[TM7]

Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri, perhaps one of the most reknown scholars in islam, issues a Fatwa ( a proclamation or 'bull') clearly denouncing extremism in the name of islam....suicide bombings, attacks on civilians, and other assundried terrorist activities are clearly denounced; and he uses the Qu'ran and Hadiths to prove this, further stating that is the way it has always been and will always be.

http://www.minhaj.org/images-db2/fatwa-eng.pdf

This is a major event scarcely covered by mass media or by Christian organizations...for some reason.

Burgeoning islamic scholars are recommended to at least read the intro in the 90 page pdf.

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fyi..TM7

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[beerbelly]

I can certainly believe the bull part!
              Beerbelly

[powderman]

I can certainly believe the bull part!
              Beerbelly

BEERBELLY. YEP.

This is a major event scarcely covered by mass media or by Christian organizations...for some reason.



Yeah right, like he really means it. POWDERMAN. 

[subdjoe]

More like 52 pages, including the front matter, then about 35 pages of bibliography.

Rather impressive document.  So much verbiage to say, basically, "even though western and non-muslim nations drive them to it, there is no excuse for the terrorists." 

What I found interesting in it was:

A: Islam is not merely a religion. It is a complete Deen, a code of life. Providing a complete set of principles for every walk of life, it has also made arrangements for the protection of the collectivity of society. The rights and duties of state institutions have manifestly and clearly been spelled out. All citizens of the Muslim state have been placed under obligation to abide by state laws, rules and regulations.

Saying what many of us here say, that islam is a religion that has spawned states, and those states are, and must be, subservient to that religion and its authorities.  Any rebellion against an islamic state is rebellion against islam, and therefore heresy and postasy.

[Swampman]

And it only took 10 years.

[powderman]

And it only took 10 years.



YEP, and it could be the real media is tired of having egg on their faces from being lied to so often by the Godless ones.  POWDERMAN. 

[Swampman]

Next Sept 11th it will be 10 years....sorry!

[subdjoe]

SUBjoe...a very well known islamicist comes out and puts down terrorism, uses the qu'ran and hadiths to do just that...then goes on to spell out what being a good citizen is as far as moslems are concerned....and this isn't covered by FOXy news, the rest of the mass media matrix, or by Christian and jewish outlets..... whatthehe//.....these are the same guys screaming that no moslems come out and denounce terrorism, and when one does they ignore it. Somethin stinks... So here one moslem denouncing terrorism in a major way with a Fatwa not seen in centuries; and you put him down for it. The Fatwa is actually 600 pages and in Urdu fyi. Same thing with the mosque a couple of blocks from GZ...here's a moderate guy professing non-terrorism and peaceful co-existence and the xenophobic war party wants to squash this mosque center.
Geeeeezzzzzzzzzzz....

BTW...by denouncing 'terrorism' he is also denouncing it from all sources wheresoever.. I hope you're ready for that because wikileaks is just about ready to realize a pile of info on western (and a certain little ME country) sponsored terrorism.....I don't think that will be too pretty.


..TM7
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Did you happen to notice how many times he blamed the west and other non-mohammedean states/cultures for driving them to it?  Did you even bother to read it?  Yeah, great, he pulled up a lot of koranic texts and traditions saying how the followers of mohammed should feed everyone else dates, candied figs, and coffee.  But those are negated by the later verses about cutting off their hands and such.  Also, he never bothered to define what was meant in his proof texts by phrases such as "if they come in peace."  Historically, that means that if they accept being subjugated by those who profess islam they get to live as about 4th rate residents of the lands that islam has brought under the caliphate.  

By the way...when it came out back in March there was a lot of coverage of it.  

ADDED - And, as you pointed out - it is one (1) guy - ONE - who has come out and said that while these good boys who are trying to turn their lives around, even though it was the west that drove them to their predations, their actions can't be justified by some parts of the koran and hadith. 

Again, did you actually read the whole thing?  Did you read it and understand it?  Did you catch the nuance tha twas used?  Or did you just read the summary of it?

[powderman]

tm. Then I guess you are saying that none of it is true??? Nobody makes the Godless ones murder innocents, it comes naturally to them so blaming everybody else for their actions is a big copout. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

Hey any bets on how long it will be until this guy is killed by his "brother" muslims or is linked to a terrorist plot?


TM c'mon tell us this is just something you have made up for your BBQ comedy act. You are a natural, look at how everyone here on GBO laughs at you when you post these silly things.

[subdjoe]

SUBJOE....yes, I read it and I think its a pretty good guidance for the moslems. No, I did not see it publicized in March...link?   Yes, I think there will be detractors on this fatwa from outside and inside islam. Yes, I think there should be a corresponding reply in kind by true Christian leaders.  No, I'm not really paranoid about the muzzies. Yes, I thought you et al would not approve of the article....that in itself is illustrative.


...TM7
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So, you accept then, his premise that it is quite understandable that the terrorists do what they do, because they have been driven to it by western nations.  Even though they should be condemned for what they do.  

I agree, it is great that he comes out and says that the thugs should be eliminated from the face of the earth (see the CBC video of him - also note that he lives in Canada, keeps his location secret, and would only meet with CBC reporters at a secret location).  I'm saying that he should have left it at "The thugs should be eliminated, they are perverting Islam."  Rather than saying over and over that the west and non-mohammedeans are to blame.  By including that, he muddies the waters and gives credence to the thugs at the same time he condemns them.  Mixed message there.

Links? Can't figure out how to search on google yet, eh?

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1969662,00.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/03/uk-islamic-scholar-issues-fatwa-against-terrorism----is-anyone-safer.html
(oh, wait, if Jihadwatch reported on it, it must be a lie, right?  So, according to you, he must not have issued it if it is reported in Jihadwatch)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/03/muslim-leaders-edict-decries-terrorism/

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/muqtedar_khan/2010/03/a_fatwa_that_might_work_a_loud_voice_from_the_silent_majority.html

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/03/fatwa.against.terror/index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gd3nKT9PTo (this is the CBC video)

Yeah, you are right "This is a major event scarcely covered by mass media or by Christian organizations...for some reason."  Nothing at all on it.  Had to dig way back to the first and second pages of a google search to get those links from unknown rags like Times, Newsweek, MSNBC, Washington Post, Canadian Broadcasting, and CNN. Fifth or sixth rate bird cage liners with almost no readership, all of them.
I didn't bother with all the pro-mohammedean publications and sites, those were a given.

ADDED:  By the way, I heard it back in March on several of the SF Bay Area TV and radio news programs.  It was also in the local paper, either Reuters or AP sourced.

[subdjoe]

SUBJOE....since your a news maven and a islamic watcher...I'm surprised you didn't bring this fatwa to all our attentions...would be good fodder for you.

So, you accept then, his premise that it is quite understandable that the terrorists do what they do, because they have been driven to it by western nations.  Even though they should be condemned for what they do.

Well sure....just like Ron Paul does...its called blowback, and as he has explained. For every action there is a reaction.  Xenophobic and supremist attitudes, such as yours, cause bad things to happen all the time. Its a shame.

No, I don't do google searches for you or other antagonists....you do them yourself.  Point is the bogus GZ mosque fiasco is getting airplay 24-7 by FOXy and the like....much to do about nothing.  Here is a major religous statement by 'your arch enemy' and it is grain of sand in time.  Stuff like this guys like you want squelched and contextualized in the battle for minds...that's ashame, too.


...TM7

Nope, I'm not an "islamic watcher"  I just notice things when they pop up.  And, it wasn't just, as you claim a "grain of sand in time."  If you bothered to notice, this was in the news pretty prominently for about a month, which is longer than most news stories.  The apologists for the mohammedeans (such as yourself), who want us to believe that the followers of mohammed have never uttered an unkind word about anyone, much less put whole towns to the sword, made sure it was kept in public view until it lost its news legs. 

Hmm...."

I don't do google searches for you or other antagonists....you do them yourself

...I'll keep that in mind next time you ask for links.  So, don't bother asking.

[powderman]

SUBJOE. Hard to pervert islam when it's a perversion in itself. POWDERMAN. 

[subdjoe]

Quote
I don't do google searches for you or other antagonists....you do them yourself
...I'll keep that in mind next time you ask for links.  So, don't bother asking.

Nope, I just don't do searches to support your or other's notions....do them yourself.  BTW, thanx for the links...I love it when you negate your own biases and beliefs....The sources, even your beloved Jihad Watch (in their very odd way.. ), said this was a major deal and worthy of study...So thanx for all that!...



...TM7
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Hmmm...I never said it wasn't a good deal or wasn't worth study, sorry.  Your reading comprehension seems to be about on par with your ability to find things on line.  What I have been saying, and you can't seem to understand, is that throughout this scholarly tome, especially in the bit you posted the link to, at the same time this guy is condemning the acts of terrorism, he is at the same time excusing them as understandable because of the eeeee--vviiill west.

But, do keep up with your lies and distortions.  It can be entertaining to see into what forms you manage to twist things.  I guess when people like you have only hate and bigotry to support your claims, that is all you can do. 

Hmmmm.....and that seems to be in line with the koranic injunctions when dealing with those who refuse to bow to mohammed, it is perfectly acceptable, even encouraged, to lie, distort, and mislead.  Look it up, it is there plain as day.

[powderman]

But, do keep up with your lies and distortions.  It can be entertaining to see into what forms you manage to twist things.  I guess when people like you have only hate and bigotry to support your claims, that is all you can do. 

Hmmmm.....and that seems to be in line with the koranic injunctions when dealing with those who refuse to bow to mohammed, it is perfectly acceptable, even encouraged, to lie, distort, and mislead.  Look it up, it is there plain as day.


SUBJOE. Good post, all true. Glad to see most of us get it. Lying and keeping their own uneducated and ignorant is how islam survives. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

But, do keep up with your lies and distortions.  It can be entertaining to see into what forms you manage to twist things.  I guess when people like you have only hate and bigotry to support your claims, that is all you can do.  

what lies are you thinking of? Be specific?

[powderman]

Yellowtail. I was quoting Subjoe. Lies and distortions is how islam thrives, and tm will say anything to try and discredit Christians, Israel,  and jews to make his muslims look good. I can't put my finger on any certain post but most anything he writes fits the category. POWDERMAN. 

[subdjoe]

But, do keep up with your lies and distortions.  It can be entertaining to see into what forms you manage to twist things.  I guess when people like you have only hate and bigotry to support your claims, that is all you can do.  

what lies are you thinking of? Be specific?

That the mohammedean religion does not teach prosetelization through the sword. 
That the mohammedean religion is totally peaceful.
That the mohammedean religion treats its followers and unbelievers the same.
That the mohammedean scriptures and traditions don't tell its followers to put unbelievers to death.

Shall I go on?

[yellowtail3]

But, do keep up with your lies and distortions.  It can be entertaining to see into what forms you manage to twist things.  I guess when people like you have only hate and bigotry to support your claims, that is all you can do.  

what lies are you thinking of? Be specific?

Shall I go on?

Sure... but it'll be a lot more persuasive if you include links to the lies.

[Pat/Rick]

No real reason to read or believe anything by anybody who professes that it is okay to lie to an infidel. What? Like I'm going to believe him? Deception nothing more.

[powderman]

No real reason to read or believe anything by anybody who professes that it is okay to lie to an infidel. What? Like I'm going to believe him? Deception nothing more.

YEP. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

I'm starting to think we are getting several who are vying to do the warm up act to old TM's comedy act kicking off his "the Jews did it" tour. We are going to have a good time at the BBQ. Yellow what is going to be your catch phrase? I know Larry the cable guy has "git er done", Foxworthy has "you might be a redneck" and old TM has the antisemetic favorite, "the Jews did it". What is yours?

[subdjoe]

But, do keep up with your lies and distortions.  It can be entertaining to see into what forms you manage to twist things.  I guess when people like you have only hate and bigotry to support your claims, that is all you can do.  

what lies are you thinking of? Be specific?

Shall I go on?

Sure... but it'll be a lot more persuasive if you include links to the lies.

Nope, I'm not going to dig through his anti-west diatribes again.  Do feel free to peruse his posts on this and other threads involving the mohammedeans on your own. 

[yellowtail3]

Nope, I'm not going to dig through his anti-west diatribes again.  Do feel free to peruse his posts on this and other threads involving the mohammedeans on your own.  

Now, why would TM7 be anti-west? Is he from New Jersey?

[powderman]

Now, why would TM7 be anti-west? Is he from New Jersey?



Yellowtail. If you had been reading tms posts for several years like we have you'd know that anti West means he favors the Godless nations of the midEAST, except for Israel, which he hates. I've never seen him make a good post about America, Israel, Jews, or Christians. But according to him the Godless ones do no wrong, and it's always the Jews fault. What makes it even more hilarious is that he claims that his wife is a Jew, heh, ya believe that? I don't.  Go to his profile, read his posts, then see what ya think. POWDERMAN. 

[subdjoe]

Now, why would TM7 be anti-west? Is he from New Jersey?



Yellowtail. If you had been reading tms posts for several years like we have you'd know that anti West means he favors the Godless nations of the midEAST, except for Israel, which he hates. I've never seen him make a good post about America, Israel, Jews, or Christians. But according to him the Godless ones do no wrong, and it's always the Jews fault. What makes it even more hilarious is that he claims that his wife is a Jew, heh, ya believe that? I don't.  Go to his profile, read his posts, then see what ya think. POWDERMAN. 

Yellowtail should just ask TM directly why TM has a big hate of western culture, mores, and religion.  I have no idea why. 

[billy_56081]

Old TM that is one of the best knee slapperrs you have ever put together. You are gonna be a hoot at the BBQ. Man now you aree trying to twist everyone else into the hate monger group. Don't worry TM I'll put up chicken wire up in front of the stage.   

[yellowtail3]

Yellowtail should just ask TM directly why TM has a big hate of western culture, mores, and religion.  I have no idea why. 

Alright, I'll give it a try:

TM7 - why do you have such a big hate of western culture, mores, and religion

[powderman]

Yellowtail should just ask TM directly why TM has a big hate of western culture, mores, and religion.  I have no idea why. 

Alright, I'll give it a try:

TM7 - why do you have such a big hate of western culture, mores, and religion

He won't give you a straight answer, I've been asking for years. An educated guess is because thats what muslims do. If he answers it will be the Jews fault or he'll completely deny it and by the time he gets done rambling and yakking  you'll forget the question. POWDERMAN.

[yellowtail3]

He won't give you a straight answer, I've been asking for years. An educated guess is because thats what muslims do.

Why - it TM7 a Muslim?

My guess would be - why he doesn't give you a straight answer? - is that it is tantamount to answering that old 'are you still beating your wife?' question.