10mm or 357 sig ???

[marbill]

I am thinking of adding a new pistol. I have heard some good things about both
but I have not shot either one. Thought I would ask for some opinions from anyone who would care to share. would be mainly used for target and some concelled carry. Maybe pack it along on a hunt once in awhile. 

[dbriannelson]

Despite the fact that I haven't shot those either, I do have some opinions.  I won't feel bad if you think my credentials to talk about them are inadequate.

The 10mm is a pretty hot cartridge and was only marginally successful.  Like the .41 Magnum that never really caught on, it was a good idea for a very specific audience:  LEOs.  It didn't catch on with police departments because it was just too hot for some officers to handle well.  So like the reduced .41 Magnum loads that were eventually made for police use, the shorter .40 became the replacement.  Unlike the .41 Magnum though, you can't shoot .40 through a 10mm.  Not a lot of brands make 10s anymore.

I really liked the idea of the .357 Sig.  Neck down the .40 and get something close to a .357 Magnum performance in an autoloader.  As I understand it, that works as planned for up to 125 gr bullets.  But again, it hasn't really caught on.  Most folks will opt either for the .40 because of the bigger bullets or the 9mm for the greater capacity.  Still, I may get one of these eventually.  If anyone will still be making them.  

I guess I should ask you back, why you aren't considering a .357 Magnum revolver?  I think a decent one would punch targets better than either of the auto cartridges and conceal better as well.  And you'd get the flexibility of heavy or light bullets, and heavy or light loads.

-Don

[NickSS]

I have shot both cartridges in friends pistols.  The 10 MM is a good powerful cartridge and it shoots well in the Colt 1911 I shot it in.  Recoil was brisk but accuracy was outstanding.  Another Friend of mine has a Sig with both a 40S&W and the 357 sig cartridges.  I shot both.  Felt recoil was less than the 10mm and even the 40 S&W and accuracy was excellent.  The cartridge works best with 110-125 gr bullets per my friend and to shoot light loads you need to change the spring so that it functions correctly. Personally I see no need for either the 10 mm or the 357 Sig in my collections but then I have several 357 mag revolvers and a 44 mag revolver.

[marbill]

Thank you for your imput.
I have a 357 Dan wesson . I have had it for a long time and I enjoy it very much.  The reason for the interest in the 10mm and the 357 sig?  I have a 226 sig in 9mm ( which I also enjoy ).  But my favorite is the 1911 .  I am kicking around the idea of adding  something else to my toy box.     Just dont know yet.  Thanks again.    Bill

[Bigeasy]

Wanting to ad another toy to the box is always reason enough..

If self defense is your primary goal, then the .357 SIG pretty much duplicates the best stopping handgun round there is - The .357 Mag. with 125 grain hollow points. 

If you plan on using your new toy for deer hunting, then the 10mm loaded full power with a good 180 / 200 grain bullet is a better choice, nipping the heels of a .41 Mag.  There are plenty of factory loads that are loaded on the lite side, duplicating the .40 S&W for self defense use.

Both rounds can be hard to find at times in retail outlets, but if you reload, its not so much an issue.

I would go with the 10mm, as it is a step up in performance compared to what you have now.  The SIG round would pretty much duplicate what you have now in your Dan Wesson.

[mrussel]

Despite the fact that I haven't shot those either, I do have some opinions.  I won't feel bad if you think my credentials to talk about them are inadequate.

The 10mm is a pretty hot cartridge and was only marginally successful.  Like the .41 Magnum that never really caught on, it was a good idea for a very specific audience:  LEOs.  It didn't catch on with police departments because it was just too hot for some officers to handle well.  So like the reduced .41 Magnum loads that were eventually made for police use, the shorter .40 became the replacement.  Unlike the .41 Magnum though, you can't shoot .40 through a 10mm.  Not a lot of brands make 10s anymore.

I really liked the idea of the .357 Sig.  Neck down the .40 and get something close to a .357 Magnum performance in an autoloader.  As I understand it, that works as planned for up to 125 gr bullets.  But again, it hasn't really caught on.  Most folks will opt either for the .40 because of the bigger bullets or the 9mm for the greater capacity.  Still, I may get one of these eventually.  If anyone will still be making them.  

I guess I should ask you back, why you aren't considering a .357 Magnum revolver?  I think a decent one would punch targets better than either of the auto cartridges and conceal better as well.  And you'd get the flexibility of heavy or light bullets, and heavy or light loads.

-Don

 I read on the internet (so it must be true!  ) that they first downloaded it in the 10mm case and it was quickly realized that the lighter "FBI" load not only didn't require the case volume that the full 10mm loads do,but it was also realized that a shorter case would fit in many 9mm frames. (For instance the 40 S&W browning Hi Power,which is a damn fine gun) Thus the 40S&W was born. Personally I really like the 10mm. I plan on getting a Delta Elite sometime in the next year.

[Savage]

Haven't checked on availability, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lone Wolf made a .357 Sig barrel for the Glock 10mm pistols. If so, you could have both for little money. I like the LW barrels I have in 9mm abd .40. I own Glocks in 9mm/10mm/.40/.45, and have been toying with the possibility of buying a .357 Sig barrel for the mdl 22. Doubt I'd shoot it much, it would be a pain to load on a progressive press due to the bottle neck case.
Savage

[HAMMERHEAD]

If you want a 1911, go with the 10mm.
If you want a Sig P226, get a .357sig (with the .40 conversion).

The 10mm is a great cartridge for hand loading, no bottleneck hassles, plenty of room in the case for any power level. I shoot a 165 grain plated bullet at about 1,050 with mild recoil in my Glock. Can't get enough of that caliber.

Nobody really does a .357sig in a 1911.

I used to own a P226ST stainless in .40, great gun, would have made a great .357 too. Should have kept that one.

One thing I know about the .357sig, it's LOUD! When an IDPA/IPSC shooter is firing one, everyone knows exactly what it is, and stands back a little further.

[marbill]

I would like to thank everyone for the input. Some very interesting things to think about.  From the info here and other bits and pieces I have been picking up ( and a couple extra points for the 1911) I think I am going to check into the 10mm.  Thanks again.     Bill

[williamlayton]

I think I will add some confusion.
The .40 short and weak brings nothing to the table, in any format, that does not exist in other formats.
The .357, while a good round is only found in a roller foremat----well that is untrue---the 9x23 will/can outspeed it with any bullet--and, is semi-auto capable..
The .45 with its larger metplate makes the .40 a bit outdated.
The reason for the .10 is the slightly larger metplate than the .357 and speed and penetration of the .357.
Penetration is a whole nother subject. Like baseball bats on skulls. What it doesn't destroy it incapacitates.
I prefer the .357 sig to the .40 and have no use---in my world--for the 10mm.
Blessings

[mrussel]

If you want a 1911, go with the 10mm.
If you want a Sig P226, get a .357sig (with the .40 conversion).

The 10mm is a great cartridge for hand loading, no bottleneck hassles, plenty of room in the case for any power level. I shoot a 165 grain plated bullet at about 1,050 with mild recoil in my Glock. Can't get enough of that caliber.

Nobody really does a .357sig in a 1911.

I used to own a P226ST stainless in .40, great gun, would have made a great .357 too. Should have kept that one.

One thing I know about the .357sig, it's LOUD! When an IDPA/IPSC shooter is firing one, everyone knows exactly what it is, and stands back a little further.

 But they do 38 Super. Ive seen loads listed in the 1300 to 1400fps range. 38 Super +P can come in above 1400 which is not quite as hot as some .357 Sig but compares favorably. The reloading manuals Im looking in show 357 Sig (all of these are 115gr bullets that Im comparing)  loads around the same range (although a little higher) than 38 Super. If you have to have a 1911 but want a 9mm that seems to me to be the way to go. (I'm talking myself into one the more I type)

Actually there is a load in the Vihtavuori manual,using their N105 powder,that claims 1407fps from a 124gr bullet. I want to try that one.

[Ak.Hiker]

I sure do like my Glock 29 in 10mm. It will run any load from 135 grain up to 200. The Blazer 200 grain TMJ is a good practise load and a pretty good back up field load. Winchester still loads the 175 grain Silvertip. Buffalo Bore, Cor Bon, and Double Tap load hot 200 grain FMJ's designed for deep penetration. Both Double Tap and Buffalo Bore load hard cast game loads. Not a bad all round handgun round. The Glock 29 is light and real handy for field carry. I end up leaving the heavy revolvers at home quite a bit when hiking and take the Glock. It is still not in the same league as a heavy weight revolver loading but does make a good compromise with its lighter weight.

[poncaguy]

I have a Glock 22 40, 9mm, and 357 Sig. I keep the Sig barrel on it all the time. My favorite round for an automatic...................

[myronman3]

10mm all the way.  it is now tied with the 44 magnum for my favorite handgun round.   i carry the 10mm with me everywhere.    the 44's sit on the shelf.   even fired without earplugs (i did so at a porqy) it was not bad.  didnt ring my ears at all. 

[krod47nw]

Both Glock and Sig have the ability to convert to other chamberings.  You may be able to get both in the same gun.  If that's not for you, than just pick one, because you know you'll want the other one later. 

Kevin

[highwayman]

[Justin10mm]

To make your life easier just get a Glock 20 10mm and a Lone Wolf .357 sig. conversion barrel (about $100) and you'll have the best of both worlds.

[Bitterroot Bob]

Howdy,
I'm going to add to your confusion and echo mrussel. Why not the .38 Super? If you get a chance, read Stephen Hunter's romantic essay on the Super in American Rifleman. While the energetic cartridge is commonly found only in a +P 130-grain RN @ 1250fps (that ain't bad!), the Lyman manual shows loads from 95 to 160 grains. It is quite versatile when a reloading press is involved. My Taurus 1911 is REALLY accurate with Aguilla ammo, and I just received ten more boxes of Armscor ($14/box) from Centerfire Systems to try out, so creating empty brass won't break you.
On the other hand, I think my next 1911 will be a 10mm. My very first shot out of a 1911 was from a 10mm Colt Delta Elite owned by a MO county sheriff. It was an outstanding pistol and piqued my interest in powerful autoloaders.
Hope that helps. Super first, Then the 10. You really need both.

Bitterroot

[mrussel]

Howdy,
I'm going to add to your confusion and echo mrussel. Why not the .38 Super? If you get a chance, read Stephen Hunter's romantic essay on the Super in American Rifleman. While the energetic cartridge is commonly found only in a +P 130-grain RN @ 1250fps (that ain't bad!), the Lyman manual shows loads from 95 to 160 grains. It is quite versatile when a reloading press is involved. My Taurus 1911 is REALLY accurate with Aguilla ammo, and I just received ten more boxes of Armscor ($14/box) from Centerfire Systems to try out, so creating empty brass won't break you.
On the other hand, I think my next 1911 will be a 10mm. My very first shot out of a 1911 was from a 10mm Colt Delta Elite owned by a MO county sheriff. It was an outstanding pistol and piqued my interest in powerful autoloaders.
Hope that helps. Super first, Then the 10. You really need both.

Bitterroot

 We are 100% on the same page. One of the first 1911s I tried was a 10mm. I liked it but the price was just out of reach at the time. 15 years later,Im seriously considering one.

[northkid]

The Glock in .357 Sig has a smaller grip than the 10mm. The 357 Sig bottle neck cartridge is much more reliable for chambering and the .357 sig is a very flat shooting round. I have shoot both in the Glocks and the .357 Sig would be my carry choice. For your 1st gun don't underestimate the 9mm technology on bullets have came a long was in the last 5 years.


Here is a great discussion on this very topic with ballistic gel pictures of wound channels.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1214113