S&W Walther PPK extractor "disintegration" on firing.

[Land_Owner]

These parts "took off" to places unknown while firing my PPK yesterday:

WPP-003 EXTRACTOR PLUNGER
WPP-004 EXTRACTOR SPRING
WPP-005 SAFETY CATCH PLUNGER.

Luckily I stopped shooting and recovered the Extractor, hanging loosely on the side of the ejection port.

Why would the spring and plungers exit the firearm?  There is no noticeable wear and tear on the extractor or frame of the gun.

[krod47nw]

Extractor issues are common with these guns.  I have seen 3 of them at the range with broken extractors.  The dealer I buy from has stopped selling them because of all the extractor problems.

Kevin

[Land_Owner]

Whoa.  

How do I approach Smith & Wesson for replacement parts in the face of Public experience that indicates S&W has "issues" with the extractor?  Just come right out with it?  Ask for replacement parts?  

I am looking for their 800- phone number now.

===================================
Found it 800-331-0852.

Joe, at Customer Service, suggests 'in the larger scheme of "Things that can go Wrong", extractors, plungers, and their springs are NOT in the bulk of the issues they hear the most from [John Q.] Public.'

Under a 1 year service warranty, as both of my PPK's were recalled, repaired, and only recently returned, S&W is sending the three listed parts and the EXTRACTOR (on back order) at NO CHARGE. 

I am not an experienced gunsmith, but I believe I can achieve a successful re-installation of these parts.  I will soon need a "secure" place to do the re-installation and to avoid the phrang of parts across the room and into new places unknown.

As with all repairs, I hope that this "disintegration" does not reoccur at the range following installation of the new parts. 

The old extractor could be worn and I will keep it just in case. 

[krod47nw]

Extractor issues are common with these guns.  I have seen 3 of them at the range with broken extractors.  The dealer I buy from has stopped selling them because of all the extractor problems.

Kevin

I should clarify my previous statement.  When I said "broken extractors" I should have said extractor assemblies that came apart.  the extractor was in the persons hand one time, and was gone along with the other parts the other two times I saw it.  I can't say the extractor itself was actually broken, it just was no longer attached to the gun.

I knew S&W would make good on the repair, as they are a top notch company.  I think they just inherited these problems from Walther

Kevin

[Land_Owner]

I am wondering if S&W would have been as "generous" had my guns not been recently warranty repaired.  Anybody with that experience?

[His lordship.]

This gun got my attention when I saw the recall on them awhile ago, what amazes me is how Smith and Wesson screwed up an old and trusted design like that?  The German made guns came out in the 1930's and saw war use, that should be enough to proof the design.

[Land_Owner]

Smith & Wesson shipped the parts on hand to me yesterday, free of charge, and the only hitch is the Extractor Plunger is on BACKORDER. 

So I can't rebuild the gun yet.  The backordered part is fundamental and integral to the mechanism.

[Land_Owner]

Just received the extractor plunger today from S&W.  It's Stainless Steel.  My gun is blue.  S&W no longer makes a blue Extractor Plunger.  It will be the only SST part showing on the gun.

Can the outer half of it be made blue with a bluing kit (which I have)?

[Land_Owner]

Dang it.  Messed up.  Need gunsmith advice.

One end of the Extractor Spring was "closed" narrower than the other.  Probably when it was "cut off" a larger spring.  Neither the solid steel pin of the Extractor Plunger or Safety Catch Plunger would fit.  The other end was fine.

Attempting to "carefully" open the spring coil by screwing a fine threaded sheet metal screw into the end, I applied too much force and "S" shaped the whole spring.  Oops! 

That is never going to straighten back out or fit in the narrow tube down which it must pass without interference to function in the manner in which it was intended.  The spring end however is "wider" now.

So, I called S&W again.  They listened and are resending the spring.

If it is the same again, and I can envision that this happens sometimes, what is the recommended way to widen the spring end?  If I was an armorer at S&W I would walk over to a drawer full of a zillion of these springs and root around until I found one or a dozen that fit correctly on both ends.

[Dale53]

Land Owner;
If it is an consolation, I had one of the early American Made Walthers (way before S&W started making them). I had to save up for quite a time to get it (things were tight at the time). When it came, every time I shot it the slide cut two grooves in the web between my thumb and forefinger (right down into the meat). It was VERY disappointing to wait so long and when I got it, was almost unshootable. I still tried to shoot it and when shooting I suddenly realized that the extractor was missing. Since the Walther is a straight blow back, it really only uses the extractor to remove loaded rounds from the barrel. It functioned perfectly with out the extractor except it wouldn't extract loaded rounds.

I had a dealer friend who had a used Sig-Sauer P230 SS .380. It was slightly bigger than the Walther but had an extended tang and was perfectly comfortable to shoot. We made a swap. He sent the Walther back and the factory fixed it. I still have the Sig-Sauer. It has never failed me.

Walthers in general are very well made. However, it appears that the extractor "problem" didn't start with Smith...

FWIW
Dale53

[Land_Owner]

How then did Walther continue to sell PPK's if the near-originals were such hand biters?  I can only imagine how that felt.  Apparently they worked through their difficulties (well maybe not all of them) and are still a viable small arms manufacturer today.  Still, not what comes to mind when one thinks about German Engineering.  "American made" prior to S&W?  Who made them at that time?

[Dale53]

My PPK/s was manufactured by Interarms from Virginia. They were made under license from Walther. They were extremely well made and were jazzy pistols. Mine was stainless. They were exact copies of the German Walther and all of them would eat the web of my hand. My hand is medium large with a rather thick web. Everyone was not bothered but they sure did me in.

Notice that S&W has an extended tang to avoid this. That tells me that I wasn't the only one to complain. A friend of mine had a German Walther (post war) that shot EXTREMELY well. He asked me to shoot his pistol off the bench with issue hardball. I said OK, and reluctantly shot it off a rest at 25 yards. The group was less than an inch out of that little pocket pistol. He kept after me to do it again. I was extremely reluctant to do so as I KNEW I wouldn't be able to duplicate that feat with that little pocket pistol. However, he insisted and I shot it another five rounds. The second group was smaller than the first....

I sure wouldn't want to bet the farm that I could do THAT again!!

The Walthers were very highly thought of amongst my group of enthusiasts.

FWIW
Dale53

[Land_Owner]

The Extractor saga continues...  

I received a new spring from S&W to replace the one I buggered up and installed it in the gun.  Again, the tang of Extractor Plunger would not fit in the spring, but I let the "carrying tube" on the gun guide it while applying pressure and the Plunger "snapped" into place within the end of the spring.  Never thought to do that the first time.  Makes sense now.

I installed the Extractor next and dang it, the gap of the new Extractor is TOO SHORT or the other was worn to fit.  This Extractor binds on the face of the receiver and now sits at a awkward angle out from the side of the gun where it has bound up tightly and I can't get it off.  I am stuck trying to remove it without losing all of the tension and the spring and extractor pieces going all over.  The plastic bag "trick" should help.



LATE NOTE:  Got it.  Exploded parts in manual showed the way  As I thought - take decocker out. New part is "closed" slightly more than the old one.  Tough to imagine that wear did that.  It is BY FAR too strong to have been bent.