J-Frame options for ccw primary

[Squib]

I had a reliable, broke-in taurus bodyguard .38spl but traded it off to help fund a db380.  the db380 is in the process of disappearing now because it's a POS.  I find myself liking the s/w's now that I'm wanting a snub again.  I cannot decide if I want a shrouded or internal hammer, stainless or aluminum frame.  other options would be grip safety (model 40?) and moon clip compatibility, though those two options aren't primary.  anyone with solid EXPERIENCE based advice please let me know about the s/w's. 

ps- the aluminum feels good and I like them, but I worry about the longevity of the material once the finish is worn off.  also, I DO shoot snubs, and often (the last one had over 2k through it in a year or two) so wear and tear could catch up if the gun ain't sturdy.  thanks.

[krod47nw]

I really see no benefit in having a shrouded hammer in a CCW snub.  I got my daughter a 642 with the internal hammer.  She has put probably 600 rounds through it and it is as good as new.  It is comfortable to shoot and as accurate as can be expected from a snub.  The fit and finish is far better than a Taurus, rossi or charter arms.  I found it to be well built, and also priced right (less than the shrouded hammer models).  It has yet to show any finish wear. 

I hope this helps,
Kevin

[GRIMJIM]

Here's a link to the j-frame revolvers.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757768_-1_757767_757751_image

I just ordered a 642. From what I've heard the frames will stretch after a long time (hopefully a very long time). Maybe you would want a stainless frame as it will last longer than the aluminum.
Maybe a 640 but the price jumps up.

Don't let the msrp scare you. I just got my 642 for $439 out the door.

[GRIMJIM]

Oh Yeah, some of the benefits of the shrouded hammer are:

Smooth draw from a pocket, no exposed hammer to get caught up.
Keeps dirt and lint out of the inner mechanism ot the gun.

It does force you to shoot double action though. If you want single or double you can go with a 638.

[krod47nw]

Oh Yeah, some of the benefits of the shrouded hammer are:

Smooth draw from a pocket, no exposed hammer to get caught up.
Keeps dirt and lint out of the inner mechanism ot the gun.

It does force you to shoot double action though. If you want single or double you can go with a 638.

The 642 has an internal hammer.  The shrouded hammer models are still susceptible to getting dirt and lint in the mechanism.  This is why I see no advantage. 


Kevin

[SHOOTALL]

I have carried both conceled and shrouded hammer. I carry when working , hunting , fishing and anywhere legal. The shrouded hammer is great when SA is used. Like shooting a snake or finishing off a deer . It could be handy at other times also. The down side is dirt and grit get in the shrouded area . It takes alot to keep it clean. Covered hammer is good if you operate in dust, dirt or other enviroments that cause STUFF to collect in the action. Also moisture has a harder time getting in . Finish on an airweight takes a beating on my gun at least whats still there  . So what it is a tool not art work. Hey ya pay thousands for a truck or car then look what you put it thru.  . Will it hold up ? yea with maintance . I have sent mine back to have a spring replaced and to tighten it up .
I had a SS J frame but hated it for carry . One its larger and weighs more. Hey try a 340 PD and use standard 38 spl. ammo and don't worry about it wearing out so fast.
My experince is over the last 8-9 years with several guns . The first was a nickle plated bodyguard airweight. The fireing pin was on the hammer nose. It was a gold tinted nickle finish that is flaking off now.
One thing i do is add SS grips for carry , thinner ! One thing I want to try is a 2.5 bbl if it fits in my pocket .

[LHS]

I love my 642! I carry it in my pocket (in a holster now), and it shoots well for it's barrel length.
Best thing is, the trigger pull is the same as all my other S&W's (including the 629), so I was used to it right away. I shoot my pistols a lot Single Action anyway, so it's not an issue with me.

Almost 500 rounds and not a hiccup yet!

[SHOOTALL]

I find the trigger pull a bit different with a coil spring of a J frame  vs a flat spring of most other S&W revolvers . Guess its just me but the guns are different really . The J frame is S&W's modern gun 

[Squib]

frame-stretch:  how and why?  I've heard of it too but is it due to SAAMI breaker .357 magnums or standard loads?  would that phenomena even be possible for 20,000 psi or less .38 special loads through an airweight/aluminum (they're usually .38 Spl +P anyways).  my main reservation is getting the airweight and being happy with it and breaking it in just to see the frame loosen up on me after a thousand (or two) rounds.  I really want the airweight BUT don't want to be sorry down the road (because the great gun becomes a worn out junker).  the stainless are usually chambered in .357 and ready for hotter loads and all but I doubt I'll ever actually load up a full-power .357 to put through a snub anyways- but that .357 ability means no durability issues with .38's. 

basically my point in all this rambling is that I want an airweight but do not trust aluminum.  scandium is aluminun with radioactive material thrown in- I'll pass on that.  stainless is trustworthy BUT the weight issue is why I traded the last one off.  shrouded hammers mean shooting a .357 in a snub is doable WITH accuracy, and the same is necessary with a LITE gun shooting .38.  the internal hammer means a higher grip to "choke-up" on and no lint issues.  the taurus have a different trigger mechanism (no rebound back-and-forth, linear support) and thus do not collect lint in a way that could jam the gun- I think it COULD be an issue with a smith.  I do not put abusive loads through my guns, I stay within SAAMI specs, but I DO put wear from usage on them.

[spruce]

You have a dilemma - nobody makes a gun that meets all of your requirements!

Seriously, it's all about compromise.  The stainless version is more durable, the aluminum version is much more comfortable to carry.  Neither will last forever.  If you shoot enough rounds through them they will both wear out (normal), and the aluminum version will probably go first.

I carried the same aluminum J-frame in my pocket for 26 years and the only visible finish wear was around the muzzle and on the cylinder - not on the aluminum frame.  On average I'd say I only put 50-75 rounds per year thru it (all standard pressure .38 spl) and it was still nice and tight when I turned it back in.

Oh - and it was 4 or 5 years old when I got it, but I think had been shot very little.

[krod47nw]

the taurus have a different trigger mechanism (no rebound back-and-forth, linear support) and thus do not collect lint in a way that could jam the gun- I think it COULD be an issue with a smith. 

I think an aluminum S&W will out last and out perform anything made by Taurus.

Kevin

[SHOOTALL]

I have had springs replaces on my airweight . but the frame is good . BTW the Ti gun dosen't glow in the dark. Ti is in rubys and other stones , most rocks and sand , most animals and humans , it coats drill bits and other tools . It is the 7th most abundant metal on earth. It would be almost impossible to not be in contact with it at some point .Natural occuring Ti comes in 5 stable isotopes . Guess night sights are out also ? or glow in the dark watches .

[Dee]

J-frames started back with the old Chief Special. I have carried about every revolver and auto that L.E. used, and I consider the S&W revolver the best there is in L.E. for many reasons. Thru my 21 years of L.E. I still also consider the S&W revolver to be one of the best of tools for self defense.
I carry DAILEY, a Model 60 Smith in 357 magnum. I ain't chasin bad guys anymore, and my main philosophy now is: I don't care what you do, as long as you don't do it in my yard, without my permission. Self-defense is just that. PERSONAL DEFENSE, and those in your family.
When I had a safe full of guns, and was about to go out hunting, or what ever, I was always in a delima about what to choose from. Solution? I sold almost all of them several years ago, and opted for what I knew would work. The result was: No more delima, more money in my pocket, and more practice and familiarity with what I carried.
I have discharged a firearm twice, on two separate occasions, directly at an adversary with positive results (at least for me) on both occasions. Once with a Model 28 Smith in 357 magnum, and once with a Colt Lightweight Commander, I had heavily customized for fighting. They both worked, with the same end result, BUT! Flashing backward, if given the choice, and replaying both incidences, I would opt for a Model 19 Smith in 357 magnum. Now I didn't read about these two incidences, nor hear about them. I was standing on the pavement in the middle of the night with gun in hand.
Here is my daily carry now. It is a 5 shot 357 magnum Smith Model 60, that I have slicked up, inside and out. It is both simple, direct, and reliable, and "unquestionably has the power" to take care of the situation. Clint Smith and I agree, in that. Simple is better, when life for a few seconds, becomes very simple. Any fighting I do, will be both up close and personal, and very simple. Most likely it will be unexpected, and very uncomplicated. One can make it complicated if one chooses to, but it will only be complicated for him. His adversary will be both simple and direct in his intentions.

Click to Enlarge photo:

[Hodr]

My way, sort of
For years I had a Lady Smith (65-5--31 ounces unloaded) in 357 mag. After Surgery The weight to carry and the recoil were more than I could handle.  I traded it for a 223 handi and cash.  The best fit I could find was a Charter Arms off duty in 38 special. (12 ounces unloaded, shrouded hammer)  I have always prefered wearing a vest over a holster and have mine made in Phoenix to order with 40 degree cant leather pockets on both sides so I could put the pistol on the left and the reloads on the right, letting nothing print to an observer.  After 600 rnds of practice I was just getting comfortable when my brother in law showed me a Charter Arms purple pistol, I am not kidding, he took in trade at his store.  After firing I found it shot just like my shrouded 38, and he gave it to me.  I now have it in the right pocket of the vest instead of ammo.  A total of 24 ounces of weight for 10 rds of 38 sp.  If I absolutely cannot wear the vest, I drop the shrouded snub into a pants pocket or stuff it under my belt.  As far as carrying a puple gun secondary, everyone quits laughing when all 5 loads go into 6" at 25 feet.  For me the shrouded hammer is always primary. I have never really met anyone who could shoot two handguns at the same time competently, but I continue to practice the Arizona transfer whenever I get the chance.  Over 2000 reloads through each, no failures

blindhari

[GRIMJIM]

Oh Yeah, some of the benefits of the shrouded hammer are:

Smooth draw from a pocket, no exposed hammer to get caught up.
Keeps dirt and lint out of the inner mechanism ot the gun.

It does force you to shoot double action though. If you want single or double you can go with a 638.

The 642 has an internal hammer.  The shrouded hammer models are still susceptible to getting dirt and lint in the mechanism.  This is why I see no advantage. 


Kevin

You're right Kevin, I meant internal hammer not shrouded.

[SHOOTALL]

The advantage of the shroud is in a SA shot . I have used such for killing snakes and two deer . In SD not unless you decide to take the low percent hostage shot .

[poppie]

Get rid of the hard rubber or are they plastic grips from the factory and get the hogue monogrips,they make the J frame a joy to shot,you get all 3 fingers on the grips,not just 2 like with the factory grips,under $20.00 most places and well worth the money, http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=422042 ,   
Click to Zoom Hogue Monogrip Grips S&W J-Frame Round Butt Rubber BlackProduct #: 422042Manufacturer #: 60000
4.5 stars Read Reviews (4) Write a Review
 
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These grips are made of soft rubber with a cobblestone (stippled) surface for good grip control. Black.

Please note: Conversion grips convert a round butt frame to a square butt feel or vice versa.

Technical Information

Materials

•Soft black rubber with cobblestone (stippled) surface, not checkered

Features
•One Piece Monogrip design with a stirrup that attaches the grip to the gun through the bottom of the grip.

Style
•Open Backstrap, finger grooves, palm swells and is relieved for speedloaders.

Fits:
•Smith and Wesson J-Frames with Round Butt: Models 30, 32, 34, 36, 37, 38, 39, 51, 60, 649, and 650.
•Please note that this will not fit the Taurus 5-Shot 38 Special.


Application Charts & Information

Overall Rating: 4.5 stars Used this Product?Rate It5 starsJesse T of Reno, NVDate posted: 3/23/2010These Grips are great, I work with many first time shooters and a majority of them have J-Frames, I use these grips to give the new shooters better handling characteristics and reduced recoil. These grips also virtually eliminate bite from recoil into the web between your thumb and fore finger. Was this review helpful?Yes | No0 found it helpful | 0 did not5 starsS E of Denver, CODate posted: 9/20/2010Excellent Grip, fits the hand better than factory. Excellent price and experience with Midway! Was this review helpful?Yes | No0 found it helpful | 0 did not4 starsBrian N of Omaha, NEDate posted: 5/28/2006I used this on my S&W 649, J-frame bodyguard 357 Mag. The grip area over the backstrap between the webbing of the hand is nice and soft and makes shooting full-house 110 and 125-grain 357 loads MUCH more pleasant, than the stock grip (an Uncle Mike's Combat rubber grip, which was actually more like hard plastic). Much more recoil-friendly than the open backstrap Hogue Bantam rubber grips. This Hogue monogrip is quite slim but is a little longer than most 3-finger grips (owing to the fact that a screw attachment is added to the bottom of the grip frame. Still, not much is lost in terms of concealability. The grip is nice a tacky, feels good in my hands, and points well. Installation was fairly simple. My only complaint is that because it's a one-piece grip, the portion of the grip over the middle of backstrap doesn't sit exactly flush with the grip frame and you can feel a little bubble of space between them. Still it doesn't present issues in terms of awkward feel or controllability. Was this review helpful?Yes | No108 found it helpful | 3 did not4 starsJoe Bloggs of Atlanta, GADate posted: 1/29/2010I have fitted this grip to my J-frame 642 model. In keeping with its deep cover mission the thicker and longer grip is not easier to conceal, and is so much more grippy that it will snag in a tighter pocket, even if your hammer doesn't. I fit it for winter carry, and anytime I'm going to put in a longer range session of +p loads as its weaknesses in carry are its strengths in shootability. Rock solid platform for all your fingers and excellent recoil resistance. You feel like you're shooting a much bigger gun than my sub 2" Airweight revolver. It's the grips I wish it had whenever I do a quick draw out of my pocket mode of carry. Try them, can't be beat on a 3"-5" target J frame. Am thinking of getting one of those guns for this grip, instead of the other way around :-)

[Mikey]

Get the Model 38 Airweight Bodyguard - aluminum frame, shrouded hammer.  Frame stretch - buncha bs, never heard of it before in a j-frame; bluing wear - hey, it's a tool not a piece of artwork, as one poster said.  Dirt and lint??  I have carried mine in my pocket(s) in a pocket holster for years and never had enough dirt or lint buildup to even think about.

Trigger pulls on the different style j-frames are different between the internal and shrouded hammers.  Shrouded hammers work incredibly well - which is why they have been made and sold for the past 50 some odd years. 

I replaced my tiny factory j-frame S&W grips with Pachmyers and the difference is phenominal.  If discretion and concealment is tantamount in your carrying concealed then wrap the grip with tape for a better hold if you need it.  These things are way too much fun and they work too.

[dbriannelson]

On aluminum durability:  Around 1975 I had to cut up a hundred Airweight Chiefs Specials when they were replaced by 1911s for Marine Corps air crews.  The S&Ws had seen fifteen years of use and abuse including a whole lot of familiarization firing, regular wear during missions and so on.  While the very first generation of Airweights, the ones with the aluminum cylinders, did poorly and were mostly destroyed for safety, the ones with the steel cylinders were very durable.  I was cutting up tight functional revolvers, many of which had a lot of wear of the anodizing and bluing but all of which were in time and tight.  The armorers said they hadn't ever touched the revolvers, unlike the 1911s which they had to repair often.

Aluminum doesn't need a coating.  I have stripped the ugly silver paint from a couple of modern lightweights using aircraft paint stripper.  They are prettier bare too, and better match the stainless cylinders.  (And if one really wants tiny, you can melt off a lot of corners and high points without having to refinish.  I shortened the butt of one by cutting just below the end of the spring guide, cutting half an inch off both legs of the bottom chunk, then reversing the base of the butt and welding it back up.)

S&Ws don't have to be thrown away when they eventually shoot loose.  Three readily available pieces and some shims and a little care in the timing will give you a tight functional revolver again.

And finally, aluminum is soooo much more pleasant to carry.  

The thing to keep an eye out for is flame cutting of the frame.  It's gradual.  I don't know personally of anyone that's shot enough to actually cut even a tenth of the way through, but it's possible I suppose.  I suggest that if one really wants to shoot ten thousand rounds from a snubby, it's a much cheaper and better option to buy two.  One to carry and one for practice.  Shoot the hell outta the practice revolver and keep the carry one clean, loaded and close by.  That might be good advice for any carry piece too.

-Don

[.357]

another vote for the 642 i'm running up on 1k plus plinking loads and 500 or so carry loads. locks up tight and works wonderfuly i looked around until  i found a smith out the lock in it, be ready to jump if the lack of a lock is important to you.

[.357]

...And finally, aluminum is soooo much more pleasant to carry.  

This is so true i used to pack my 4 inch .357 stainless Ruger man was that an anchor!

[The Hermit]

I've carried a S&W Chiefs Special Airweight in .38 cal Model 37, since1974.  It has an exposed hammer. In single action, I can hit pepsi cans at 25 FT. I needed it twice and twice it delivered. It looks like hell with most of the finish worn off, but still locks up tight. I used to carry it in an inside the pants holster, but now the holster goes in my right front pants pocket. I use hollow points. I won't ever sell it.


   The Hermit