Will These Ever Be Permitted For Deer Hunting...?

[RIFLE MAN]

friends:

Do you believe the 30-30 Winchester or the 45-70
(with its rainbow trajectory) will ever be allowed for
deer hunting in Indiana? Due to the type of land that
is generally found in the state, I can understand not
using super mags or other bullets with "mile long
kill trajectories," but it seems that if a 12 gauge slug
can be used that surely the 45-70 should be allowed
to say the least.

What do you think?

Rifle Man

[Hank in Indiana]

I doubt that they will legalize these calibers. However, If you reload the 45-70 can easily be trimmed. When the rumors began with a case length of 1.625" I trimmed some split cases for my 40-60 and 45-70. They both shot fairly good in spite of the long jump to the throat. The 45-70 would shoot 2-3" groups at 100 yds with a 300g @ 1550 fps. The rifle normally shoots 1" groups. Now with the new legislation proposed of a case length of 1.8" the rifle shoots 1" with 300g @ 2000 fps.

[torpedoman]

They are allowed now you just need to change your politicians or move.

[Old Syko]

They are allowed now you just need to change your politicians or move.

Might want to clean your own house before condemning someone else's housekeeping.  Indiana honors all other states permits and right to carry while here, while your own state only honors 10 and Indiana isn't one of them.  This is a much bigger issue than our right to hunt deer with a 30-30 where in the southern hills where I live, 90% of all deer are taken at a range of under 50 yards.  The right to hunt with whatever caliber you please is but one side of the issue.  On the other side, even if any caliber was legal, many property owners are going to apply their own restrictions as to what can be used on their property just as they restrict who is allowed there.

Rifle Man, if you want your rights restored, go to work educating our lawmakers and the DNR.  Some of us have carried this torch with little help for a long time and even though we have regained a lot there is still much to do.  After all, the lawmakers are uneducated politicians, not hunters and shooters.  If you're willing to speak a language they understand they will listen but they are pitifully slow to change or even react for that matter.  Good luck and welcome aboard.

[RIFLE MAN]

Thanks Old Syko for a reasoned response. You are absolutely
correct in your advice and sentiments.

Rifle Man

[tobster]

Old Syko-May I ask where you get the load data and what powder you are using for the 45-70 cases trimmed to 1.8 oal?

[Old Syko]

Old Syko-May I ask where you get the load data and what powder you are using for the 45-70 cases trimmed to 1.8 oal?

Sorry Tobster, but that's Hanks post you're refering to.  All my big bore loads are standard cases and heavy cast slugs.  Maybe Hank can help ya out.  Where'd you go Hank?

[Hank in Indiana]

With the 1.625" I started with 45 long colt loads and worked up.
With the 1.8" I started with trapdoor loads and worked up.

[teddy12b]

I don't see them allowing the 30-30, or 45-70 in the future.  Think of how long it took them to change the laws regarding caliber last time.  Personally I'd like to see the 10mm added to the list.  The more I read about that caliber the more I want to buy one.

[ChrisK]

i think it should up to the landowner.period. on state ptoperty i believe they should be able to tell you what you can and can't use. that sounds pretty fair and resonable.

[whitfang]

Try 30-30 in a T/C Contender pistol.  If normal 30-30 recoil/noise is too much, try it in Remington 30-30 'Reduced Recoil' loads.

Try 45/70 in a T/C Encore pistol, if you love recoil, noise and excitement.  I gar-on-tee it will be sufficient in those areas!

 

[wls]

Question for youall!

If I shorten my 45-70 brass to 1.8", does it then become legal here in Indiana.  Would love tohear from a CO or lawyer on this issue.

Also, Hank, what are you shooting your shortened 45-70's out of?

[Hank in Indiana]

Case length of 1.625" is legal now.
The case length of 1.8" is not legal. It has been brought up, discussed, and approved, but not voted on yet. If you look on the In DNR website the approved changes are listed but they have not been voted into law. If the vote is confirmed the changes will go into affect next year.
I shoot the 45-70 cartridges in an 1873 springfield trapdoor and an 1895 Marlin, and I shoot the 40-60 out of an 1881 Marlin.

[Old Syko]

Question for youall!

If I shorten my 45-70 brass to 1.8", does it then become legal here in Indiana.  Would love tohear from a CO or lawyer on this issue.

Also, Hank, what are you shooting your shortened 45-70's out of?

Not a CO or a lawyer but you don't have to be to understand the laws and how they are written.  Indiana regs are written very clearly.  They are based on bullet diameter and case length.  It doesn't matter what sort of rifle or handgun they are fired from as long as you follow the requirements for either rifle or handgun, whichever you choose to use.  A trip to the In DNR site explains this in simple terms.

I will advise though, if you choose to use, as an example, a shortened to legal length 45-70, you need to make sure you have no standard length ammo on your person or in your transportation.

[Hank in Indiana]

This raises a question. If I have a legal 1.625" shell in my 1895 Marlin rifle and a Legal 45-70 shell in my BFR revolver handgun, would there be a legal issue. The law clearly states I can carry multiple legal weapons.

[teddy12b]

I think this is one of those situations where if you have to ask, the answer is probably going to be no.  Keep in mind that the case will stretch some after being fired.  Not much since it's straight, but it still will stretch some.  You may want to just call the DNR directly on this and then get back with us on what they say.  You also may want to keep a micrometer in your pack when out hunting too!

[Old Syko]

This raises a question. If I have a legal 1.625" shell in my 1895 Marlin rifle and a Legal 45-70 shell in my BFR revolver handgun, would there be a legal issue. The law clearly states I can carry multiple legal weapons.

Well, if you believe in "innocent until proven guilty" as long as each is chambered in its proper firearm, nothing could be done.  My reference to carrying an illegal round, even though not chambered, while in possession of a firearm capable of it's use, could be construed as intent.  Like I've said before, I'm not a lawyer, but I have an idea of how the game is played.  My only experience comes from trying over the years to help educate some of the lawmakers as to what is real and learning how some of them think. 

[Hank in Indiana]

Intent would be a streatch on that one. Also consider that after friday until March 15 is coyote season and any rifle any caliber can be used and carried during those dates for coyotes. If intent could be implied and not proven a lot of coyote hunters would be in court. Squirrel is also in season most of that time and that regulation states any equipment and ammunition.

[Old Syko]

Hank, I agree completely.  My statements are merely conjecture since there has never been, to my knowledge, a case of any of this being tried.  I just know how knowledge and common sense lacking some of the folks in charge can be.  In all my time afield over the years I have met only one CO that I deemed a total idiot and thankfully his superiors felt the same way.  All the other COs I've met have been knowledgeable, helpful and understanding, but even they have to answer to a higher up.  Even with this being said, all COs are individuals and not all see things in the same light when in a judgement call situation.  Not everything is totally covered in the regs and must be left up to the man in the field.  What one might not consider a problem another might. 

[srussell]

i think that all stright wall cases that are as long as the 38-55 should be legal. evan if i had to use black powder in them.