Anybody seen the ACLU lately ?....

[Junior1942]

ironglow, there's a big difference between removing a fertilized egg and drowning a 2-year-old child. 

[powderman]

ironglow, there's a big difference between removing a fertilized egg and drowning a 2-year-old child. 

Big difference??? Yep, about 2+ years, but the result is the same, the murder of a child. Libs brag about a womans right to choose, which means simply the right to murder an unwanted child. The only choices are, life, or death, there is no in between.  The right to choose generally means another dead baby. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

JUNIOR:

     This is NOT simply a "fertilized egg" or a "small piece of tissue"..Allow Dr Bill Lile, gynecologist explain it to you.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUr0jCbcPNc
    
    This is what the ACLU and most of the left wants to continue. In fact B. Hussein Obama, by the way he has voted in the past, wants to go even farther. He wants babies who are somehow born alive in a botched abortion..to be left to die in a cold anteroom or trash can.
  Still, something tells me you won't muster the courage to view the Doctor's video...am I correct?

[Junior1942]

I watched it.  Now, you watch it again and listen to the guy spin why the procedure is performed.  He spins his words around the fact that it's performed to save the mother's life. 

[Hooker]

ironglow, there's a big difference between removing a fertilized egg and drowning a 2-year-old child. 

Yeah but the end result is the same.
Some day you can explain the difference to your maker. Good luck with that.

Pat

[yellowtail3]

Well, Junior's right: to anyone except an ideologue, there is a diff. Recognizing that doesn't make one wrong, or immoral, or the enemy... except to ideologues and fanatics.

I've got friends who are both.

[powderman]

Only libs and dems could possibly think that killing babies is birth control. Why don't you pro death people ask yourself why your mother let you live, instead of killing you. It would have been her right, RIGHT? POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  I am a Christian..and I have no time for those who have stood by smiling while 50,000,000 babies in the US alone, have been murdered.
  I have striven against this holocaust and one day I can stand before my Lord and Savior and say so..

     What can you enablers possibly say ? When you do face Jesus, how will you talk your way out of your support for this;

    

[Junior1942]

What can you enablers possibly say ? When you do face Jesus, how will you talk your way out of your support for this;

   

Hopefully I'll be in line behind you, and I'll note how you talk your way out of your support for killing mothers.

[yellowtail3]

 I am a Christian..and I have no time for those who have stood by smiling while 50,000,000 babies in the US alone, have been murdered.
  I have striven against this holocaust and one day I can stand before my Lord and Savior and say so..

     What can you enablers possibly say ? When you do face Jesus, how will you talk your way out of your support for this;  

I don't know how they'll do it; you'll have to ask some of those peeps who have stood by smiling while 50,000,000 babies in the US alone, have been murdered, if you can find them.

Myself? I'll be counting on Jesus and grace, not whether I was on the 'right' or 'wrong' side of a political issue. And I'm thinking that if Jesus is who I think He is... the Kingdom might be broader than some think it will be. And imagine the reaction some might have, when they're made to realize that Mexican sounds a lot like Samaritan... maybe then they'll not be braggin' on their future body counts?

[ironglow]

YT:
    Enablers are those who stand by and do not condemn those like the ACLU who strive to keep the killing going.

    Mexican, Samaritan, Egyptian or Lithuanian..what are you driving at ?
 
   Junior;
   Saving a mother's life and wantonly killing a little boy or girl are two different subjects..you are better at spinning than most politicians.
  Nobody debates saving a mother's life, however you, I and the whole world knows... at least 95% of these killings are for "convenience"...


  BTW: YT..you have yet to answer my post #60...WWJD ?
    

[yellowtail3]

 BTW: YT..you have yet to answer my post #60...WWJD ?

I ignored your question, ironglow, because the way you phrased it was asinine, and you were veering into powderman/swine (as in pearls before) territory. See, I recognize the technique, having been a practitioner of it in times past: phrase the question in such a way as to get the answer you want, rather than to elicit a thoughtful response. Shameful sophistry and BS.

Rant mode off: I think Jesus would advise against abortion. I also think he understands desperation, since he understands us.

I've been a pro-life for probably as long as you, I've voted and marched and advocated... but don't play me, sport, just because I'm done with the sloganeering and demonizing.

[Dixie Dude]

I know a nurse who was in on a botched abortion.  The baby came out and cried.  They immediately took it and it was to be given up for adoption.  She quit shortly thereafter and went to work somewhere else.  Baby was about 6-7 months old, but came out crying and fully formed.

One knows within the first 3 months whether a mother can carry full term or not.  Even in Europe abortions are illegal after 3-5 months.  They know after 5 months the baby can survive outside the womb.  At the very least we have got to outlaw late term abortions, then work our way down. 

[Junior1942]

> Saving a mother's life and wantonly killing a little boy or girl are two different subjects

Again, a fertilized egg is not a little boy or girl.  If it is, why aren't you collecting aborted fetuses and miscarriages and having funerals?  

WWJD?  He certainly would NOT be trying to force his religious beliefs on others as you and others like you do.  You people want me and others to follow your religious beliefs under penalty of law.  You are a Taliban without beards and robes.

[yellowtail3]

I know a nurse who was in on a botched abortion.  The baby came out and cried.  They immediately took it and it was to be given up for adoption.  She quit shortly thereafter and went to work somewhere else.  Baby was about 6-7 months old, but came out crying and fully formed.

Good for her, getting out. It's an ugly business, right about on the same moral place as divorce lawyer.

[Hooker]

YT3 Your correct we are saved by the grace of God.
But there will be a day of judgement and we shall all be judged.
As Christian it is my duty to tell you that abortion is wrong. I can not judge you that is not my place but the stand you have taken will be judge wrong by God.
I have a feeling thatyou already know this.

Pat

[yellowtail3]

YT3 Your correct we are saved by the grace of God.
But there will be a day of judgement and we shall all be judged.
As Christian it is my duty to tell you that abortion is wrong. I can not judge you that is not my place but the stand you have taken will be judge wrong by God.
I have a feeling thatyou already know this.
Pat

Let's get some clarity here, Hooker - exactly what stand is it that you think I've taken that God will disapprove of?

[DDZ]

Yellowtail, so you think Jesus would advise against abortion? Well I'll ease your mind a bit. I will guarantee you that Jesus hates abortion. In reference to pregnant women, the term with child is mentioned 26 times in the Bible and the term fetus never occurs once. Abortion is the murder of Gods children. You claim to be pro life, but use the term A woman's right to choose. I hear this term often from pro death leftists all the time.

Junior1942, pro death leftists also use the term fetus all the time. I guess its used to make the unborn aborted baby sound like something else rather than a human. For your info, abortions for the reason to save the mothers life happens around 1 percent of the time. Abortions for birth control or convenience happen 95 percent of the time. Oh, and pro death leftists also always use the excuse about saving a mothers life or rape, so mothers can continue murdering their unborn children. Its ok if you have been deceived on the abortion issue, you have lots of company, but you still have time to learn the truth.
      
How does one persons right to certain options override another person's right to exist? Can either one of you answer this?

How about the thousands of convicted killers sitting on death row, while America searches her conscience, but its open season on unborn children.

We protect hundreds of species of animals and birds. We even protect the egg of a bald Eagle. Go break a Bald Eagle egg and government will fine you five thousand dollars. In turn government gladly pays to murder unborn children. People are appalled by medical research and the testing of cosmetics on animals, at the same time medical facilities harvest preborn children for spare parts.    

The Declaration of independence says "all men are created equal" and they are endowed by their creator with "certain unalienable rights". Most notable of these are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Every person in America is protected by these words except the unborn child and the convicted felon. For what crime does a preborn child forfeit his or her Constitutional rights? Do you guys maybe think that the widespread acceptance of murdering unborn children in America is dulling our social conscience?
If we accept a mother killing her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill each other?

[ironglow]

Junior;
  After all the evidence shown right here, say nothing about other sources, you remain incredibly self-blinded. Do those little children in the photos look anything like a "fertilized egg"? If so, I see a lot of little "fertilized eggs" being carried ariound in blankets, riding in car seats and drinkling from bottles...DUH !  They have names and the girls often wear pink while the boys usually wear blue..

[yellowtail3]

Yellowtail, so you think Jesus would advise against abortion?

Yes, I do.

Well I'll ease your mind a bit.

No need, DDZ; my mind is serene enough that is doesn't need your clumsy ministrations.

I hear this term often from pro death leftists all the time.

Yaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnn.

[Hooker]

YT3 Your correct we are saved by the grace of God.
But there will be a day of judgement and we shall all be judged.
As Christian it is my duty to tell you that abortion is wrong. I can not judge you that is not my place but the stand you have taken will be judge wrong by God.
I have a feeling thatyou already know this.
Pat

Let's get some clarity here, Hooker - exactly what stand is it that you think I've taken that God will disapprove of?

I'm sorry did we change subjects again.
Oh now I remember. Abortion is wrong in the eyes of God. I believe that means he will disaprove.
Sorry for the sarcasm I couldn't resist

Pat

[Junior1942]

..... For your info, abortions for the reason to save the mothers life happens around 1 percent of the time. ....

That's probably close to the truth.  However, if the pro-life Taliban get their way it will happen 0 percent of the time.  Let your religion dictate your moral decisions.  Let my religion or lack thereof dictate mine.  Don't try to force on me via law your religious belief that a fertilized egg is a person.  It isn't.  If you were allowed to do that, you could force me to go to church via law.  You could force me to tithe.  You could force me to not drink demon rum.  You could force me to cut my hair in the style to which you think Jesus would approve.  This is America.  Not Afghanistan.

[powderman]

junior. God gave us all free will. We are free to choose right or wrong, good or evil, God or satan, Heaven or hell. Choose wisely guys, it's for eternity you know. We will all eventually die, we will all eventually face Gods judgement. Not only for what we do but for things we support. When we see God face to face saying OOOOOOOPPPPSS aint gonna cut it.
yt3. AGAIN I ask. Answer my question in post #39. I sincerely doubt that God is real proud of your aclu. POWDERMAN. 

[Dixie Dude]

At only 6 weeks, a baby has a heartbeat and brainwaves.  Is is a mass of cells, or is it human.  At 6 weeks a woman has just found out she is pregnant.  I have a set of premature grandtwins.  They were born at 3-1/2 months.  They were only about 1-1/2 lbs at birth.  One could fit in my hand.  They lived.  They are 9 now.  So, where do you draw the line.  6 weeks, 3 months.  At what point does the "fetus" become human?  There are plenty of ways to keep from getting pregnant these days, so abortion should NOT be an option unless it actually endangers the mother's life, which someone said was only about 1%.  At 5 months, 85% of these fetuses can survive outside of the womb.  Get real, human life is precious.  Next will be assisted suicide and pulling the plug on old people.  Liberals are twisted.  They will save a condor's egg or an eagle's egg and let it hatch.  But saving a human life isn't as important, because the "egg" is inside the mother.  This is also one of my pet peeve's.   Most women who have abortions regret it later in life. 

[powderman]

DIXIE DUDE. Good post. I believe that life begins at conception. God said to Jeremiah, I knew ye before I formed ye in the womb. Pro life or pro death has nothing to do with politicians as some here say, it has to do with Gods law. Roe vs wade was and is a travesty, America has been going downhill ever since.
God was basicly kicked out of America in 1963. Since then we have seen children raised in a Godless society, had laws made by Godless legislators, been judged in a Godless judicial system, and had our children educated in Godless schools. The results of all this is what we see here in every day life, and of some here on this board. Very sad. POWDERMAN. 

[DDZ]

Junior, I'm not trying to force any of my beliefs on you. I'm just saying what I believe to be the truth, based on what Christ says is the truth.  God did give you a free will. I or any other Christian doesn't want to see you, or anybody spend eternity in total darkness separated from God. It isn't about forcing our beliefs on you or anyone.
Although it is against the law to murder an innocent human being. All beliefs aside, that is the law. Our Constitution also protects that right to life.  

I believe that upon conception a human life is formed. You don't believe that, so I'll ask you, when do you believe a fertilized egg becomes a human?
It sure makes people feel better about killing unborn children if they can say it isn't human. Have you ever heard a pregnant mother refer to her baby in her womb other than her baby? Like her fetus, or her blob of tissue. I know I haven't. I think those are just feel good terms so the killing can continue, for nothing other than convenience.

If a person hits an expecting mother in a auto accident and kills her, why is that person charged with killing two people? There are no laws that I know of for killing a fertilized egg. So evidently the baby is considered a human being.

If a mother births a baby and the doctor sticks a knife through its heart its murder, but if that same doctor pokes a hole in the base of the baby's skull and sucks its brains out, while its head is still inside the mother, its a perfectly legal killing. If you see this as moral and right, you are free to see it as such.

[powderman]

DDZ. Good post, but Ya need to learn to be pc my friend. Example. I terminated my fetus sounds better than saying, I killed my baby. Dontcha see??? Using the pro death term of fetus just sounds better, it dehumanizes human life making murder seem like a normal thing.
Baby butcher shops are big business. The butchers make thousands of $ just for killing the baby, then they sell body parts and tissues for medical experiments. These butchers have no morals or family values and dedicate their lives to taking lives instead of saving them. Really sad. I know a woman who has cried daily for the baby she murdered 30 years ago. She still wonders if she would have had a son or daughter, dr, lawyer, policeman, nurse, maybe a preacher, but she'll never know. She knows God forgave her, but she can't seem to forgive herself. Very sad. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

..... For your info, abortions for the reason to save the mothers life happens around 1 percent of the time. ....

That's probably close to the truth.  However, if the pro-life Taliban get their way it will happen 0 percent of the time.  Let your religion dictate your moral decisions.  Let my religion or lack thereof dictate mine.  Don't try to force on me via law your religious belief that a fertilized egg is a person.  It isn't.  If you were allowed to do that, you could force me to go to church via law.  You could force me to tithe.  You could force me to not drink demon rum.  You could force me to cut my hair in the style to which you think Jesus would approve.  This is America.  Not Afghanistan.

  Oh yes; now we are the Taliban!  Frankly; when a liberal finds himself losing a debate, the name-calling can be expected. The only surprise here is that it did not as usual, start with "racist"...which is the liberal's usual 'flip out' point.
  I would hasten to remind you though junior, we are talking about protecting innocent lives vs taking innocent lives; now who better fits the term, "Taliban" ?  

[ironglow]

I know a nurse who was in on a botched abortion.  The baby came out and cried.  They immediately took it and it was to be given up for adoption.  She quit shortly thereafter and went to work somewhere else.  Baby was about 6-7 months old, but came out crying and fully formed.

One knows within the first 3 months whether a mother can carry full term or not.  Even in Europe abortions are illegal after 3-5 months.  They know after 5 months the baby can survive outside the womb.  At the very least we have got to outlaw late term abortions, then work our way down. 

   Sometimes those botched abortions leave injured/disfigured "survivors"...sometimes not. I think it is important to point out right here, that we have a prez who voted twice to help the clumsy abortionists 'bury their mistakes'..or throw it in the trash.
  (actually they don't throw them away, there is a lucrative trade in baby parts..but that's another debate)

  Here's a Wall Street Journal article, outlining Obama's vote:   http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121261107480446197.html

[ironglow]

  FYI;
   Here's the baby parts price list; smuggled out by a technician with a conscience;
     

http://www.trosch.org/for/body-parts.html

    During the WW2 holocaust, gold teeth were extracted before firing up the bodies, the Jew's hair was used to stuff truck seats, etc.

  Do we still believe it is the "Christian" thing to do..backing the ACLU in it's efforts to defend the abortuariues ?