Author Topic: My New 444Marlin (Read 1586 times)

pruhdlr · « **on:** September 09, 2010, 11:51:42 AM »

Just picked up my new 444 Handi. Before I shot it, I took it to the gunshop and had the bbl chopped to 18" and the LOP shortened to 13".

I enjoy shooting and hunting with my wifes 45-70 subjected to this same treatment that I wanted a small,light,stalking the thick brush,gun. I have been reloading for my 444Marlin lever for some time but have never tried the "on the heavy side" bullets.

So......my question is,have any of you used the >300gr bullets in your Handi 444Marlin ?? If so what bullet,crimped or not,OAL,accuracy

I am especially interested in the hardcast. ---pruhdlr

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2010, 01:43:17 PM »

Congrats! I've worked with the Beartooth 355gr at 100yds, COL 2.631", Lee FCD.

Tim

manatee1947 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2010, 06:14:30 PM »

I am using a 300 gr Lee mold and cast my own, I am getting about 1.5 " @ 75 yds, no crimp, no gas check, no leading, 20 gr of 2400. Not real loud, not much recoil, good penetration. Killed a deer last year- 7 pt @ about 70 yds, ran about 80 yds and went down. I am happy with it.

pruhdlr · « **Reply #3 on:** September 10, 2010, 02:51:49 AM »

Thanks for your info guys. I have a bunch(200~) of the Hornady 265's,and 'bout the same of Hornady's 300gr XTP. BUT.......seems that I always gravitate back to the WFNGC's. I have hammered several of the bigger hogs with these and just can't forget it. I shot a 180lb sow with one last year and it almost seemed "unfair".

Deer down here are of course small,BUT can't download too much cuz anywhere I hunt(especially in the river swamp)the hogs grow big and for some reason meaner than most. I have had several big boars stare me down while growling like a bear. For this especially,bigger is better. Besides......I'm too darned old to climb(efficiently anyways).

I put several of the 265's thru the bigger moose outta my 444,14" T/C so I know they will do the job. I also killed a nice boar several years ago outta my rifle leaver gun using the 300gr XTP's.

I do not have any RL-7 but got bunches of the others so will first try the same loads for my lever,then if need be,branch out from there. Will also order a box of the 325 and greater hardcast. No jacket to shed and a wide meplate is what always brings me back.

Thanks again for the help. ----pruhdlr

Bayou Stalker · « **Reply #4 on:** September 10, 2010, 04:02:05 AM »

My .444 with the 265 Hornady LE is the most accurate rifle I have shot, and the only sub MOA rifle I have ever owned...

pruhdlr · « **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2010, 07:22:09 AM »

This is a pic of my 444Marlin Handi next to my wifes 45-70. My gun(Kermit,lower pic) was set up like hers. 18"bbl,13.0" LOP

Both guns wear a Leupold 1X-4X shotgun/ML scope with the thick crosshairs. ---pruhdlr

BBF · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2010, 07:37:36 AM »

For the years I had a Marlin in 444 I used the 265 gr Hdy puhed with a full load of IMR 4891 as the primary rifle and load.

Shu · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2010, 03:30:43 PM »

Awesome rifles.
You are tempting me to cut a few inches off of my 45-70.

pruhdlr · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2010, 03:58:49 PM »

You know,just gotta say without trying to create a poo storm,some of these chamberings,especially in the Handi-Rifle setup are IMHO, a short range gun. The 357,44mag,45LC,444Marlin,and 45-70 are to me 100yd guns. Can you accurately shoot further with these....yes. Can you kill your game at the ranges beyond 100yds....yes. Did Quigley hit the bucket at a gazillion yards....yes. But if you want a 200,300,400,etc,yard Handi I sure can think of much better offerings.

FOR ME ..... my Handi's are for close range hunting. This is why I use low power optics. BTW,I use optics because of my eye sight. On these weapons my scope is always on the lowest power. I killed a deer two years ago with my wife's Handi at 90yds,with the scope set on 2X.

FOR ME ..... I want a rifle that is easy to shoulder,with a balance point more under the trigger guard,with a short bbl that I can steer thru the heaviest of brush. Also fairly light weight. Short and light to me also means that I do not have tie the gun onto a string,climb my ladder stands,then pull them up,then untie them. I climb with the gun on my back.

These are simply my feelings. My intention is not to start a ballistics war. ---pruhdlr

rsl · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2010, 04:30:24 PM »

They double as flamethrowers? If you get close enough you can kill and cook your game at the same time.. Ha... Handi Humor..

MNSHOOTER · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2010, 04:43:19 PM »

COOL!! They look like they are one step away from a pistol grip! I have one ultra short rifle and my only complaint is it is so damn loud it will wake up the dead!!! I shot a buck a couple of years ago off a steep cliff overlooking a river bottom and the blast rang my ears so bad I saw star's. Mark

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2010, 05:02:58 PM »

Few people realize how great a cartridge the .444 is.

al_bum · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2010, 07:15:12 PM »

I use the ranchdog 300 gr cast in my .444 with a compressed load of RL-10x at 2100 fps. Also works well with reduced loads of 2400. One of the most accurate rifles I own. Hard to beat out to 200 yards.

tacklebury · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2010, 08:49:22 PM »

Quote

The 357,44mag,45LC,444Marlin,and 45-70 are to me 100yd guns.

Not going to war either, but I must state that in many cases, especially light trap door loads, I'd have to agree partially, but I think the usable range can be closer to 200 in the .45-70 at least, for hunting depending on load. With my load of 46.7 gr. of RL7, FTX bullets are point blank out to about 175 yards and Interlock HP's to about 150. I don't even elevate until closer to 200, so that is what I determine usable range by. I am an iron sight shooter and hunting here, we rarely have good opportunities much beyond 100 yards, but I like to practice further so as not to miss a good opportunity.

My max load of 52 gr. RL7 pushing the same bullets is a bit better, but less accurate in my guns and 50 gr. is the most powerful MOA level load for me. I dislike the extra recoil though, so I use 46.7 gr. If I were ever to do an elk, moose or grizzley hunt, I'd probably load those baby's up and find a tougher bullet.

myarmor · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2010, 10:00:07 PM »

Quote from: pruhdlr on September 10, 2010, 03:58:49 PM

You know,just gotta say without trying to create a poo storm,some of these chamberings,especially in the Handi-Rifle setup are IMHO, a short range gun. The 357,44mag,45LC,444Marlin,and 45-70 are to me 100yd guns. Can you accurately shoot further with these....yes. Can you kill your game at the ranges beyond 100yds....yes. Did Quigley hit the bucket at a gazillion yards....yes. But if you want a 200,300,400,etc,yard Handi I sure can think of much better offerings.

FOR ME ..... my Handi's are for close range hunting. This is why I use low power optics. BTW,I use optics because of my eye sight. On these weapons my scope is always on the lowest power. I killed a deer two years ago with my wife's Handi at 90yds,with the scope set on 2X.

FOR ME ..... I want a rifle that is easy to shoulder,with a balance point more under the trigger guard,with a short bbl that I can steer thru the heaviest of brush. Also fairly light weight. Short and light to me also means that I do not have tie the gun onto a string,climb my ladder stands,then pull them up,then untie them. I climb with the gun on my back.

These are simply my feelings. My intention is not to start a ballistics war. ---pruhdlr

I agree with you on the cals stated as I am sure many do. If you need a longer range cal there are many to choose from and shoot a lot straighter, though like you said it's not that these cals can't get the job done, just better suited for closer hard hits IMO

Nice glass by the way.
I also have seen the 444 in a Handi is a VERY accurate offering and I am sure many over look it. I am glad they are keeping it for us.

-Aaron

gendoc · « **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2010, 12:05:04 AM »

Quote from: pruhdlr on September 10, 2010, 03:58:49 PM

You know,just gotta say without trying to create a poo storm,some of these chamberings,especially in the Handi-Rifle setup are IMHO, a short range gun. The 357,44mag,45LC,444Marlin,and 45-70 are to me 100yd guns. Can you accurately shoot further with these....yes. Can you kill your game at the ranges beyond 100yds....yes. Did Quigley hit the bucket at a gazillion yards....yes. But if you want a 200,300,400,etc,yard Handi I sure can think of much better offerings.

FOR ME ..... my Handi's are for close range hunting. This is why I use low power optics. BTW,I use optics because of my eye sight. On these weapons my scope is always on the lowest power. I killed a deer two years ago with my wife's Handi at 90yds,with the scope set on 2X.

FOR ME ..... I want a rifle that is easy to shoulder,with a balance point more under the trigger guard,with a short bbl that I can steer thru the heaviest of brush. Also fairly light weight. Short and light to me also means that I do not have tie the gun onto a string,climb my ladder stands,then pull them up,then untie them. I climb with the gun on my back.

These are simply my feelings. My intention is not to start a ballistics war. ---pruhdlr

i like your style !!!! sounds very familier

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** September 11, 2010, 02:19:55 AM »

The .444 is effective to 250 yards.

pruhdlr · « **Reply #17 on:** September 11, 2010, 02:32:42 AM »

Down here hunting the thick river bottoms in Eglin AFB or the thick backwater swamps of the Escambia River the shots are normally 25yds. Every now and then while stalking you break out into a small opening where you could possibly shoot 50.

As my wife refuses to hunt these locations with me, a couple of years ago I started using her 45-70 Handi loaded back up from her 1000fps 350gr Hornady to my 1800fps WLNGC hardcast. It was such a pleasure to hunt with, I though of building up one for myself.

We have never had to worry about "the gun that both of us went to in the safe" sorta thing until last season. We were gonna hunt at the club and she was gonna sit a small tent blind on a smallish plot where a "long" shot could be 50yds and I was gonna stalk a small stream bottom that was almost as thick as the river swamp. I opened the safe and both of us grabbed for the 45-70 pictured in my above photo. Of course she got the 45-70 and I got my 1895.

SO........I have been looking to get another close range hog slayer and one night the god of Handi's spoke to me in a "vision". Same thing only different he said. I was already tooled up and had been reloading for two 444's for the last 30years,so........... Got the powders,got some 300's already,can surely get some >300gr hardcast,heck why not. A big,heavy,wide meplate,hardcast,will surely get any job done that I will need doing.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Good shootin' to all. ---pruhdlr

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 11, 2010, 06:19:42 AM »

A 'max' case from the factory that has lasted.........if I still owned/shot .44 revolvers I would probably want one. FWIW, I once had a Marlin 336(?) in 444 that I couldnt get to shoot cast bullets accurately. But those were the days before I found out to shoot a bullet that fit the fully fire-formed case neck. Back then I would run everything though a sizing die (you know, follow all the instructions and it is supposed to work) and sqeeze a cast bullet into the now undersize neck. Result, lousy accuracy and leading.
Now I only resize if a case gets sticky and have bigger expander buttons (factory die sets have buttons for jacketed bullets) which are much more 'cast friendly'.

Shu · « **Reply #19 on:** September 11, 2010, 11:01:55 AM »

Those are awesome rifles. I love short barreled, single shot rifles.

Not to hi jack the thread and not add to a "poo storm" the cartridges mentioned can be used at further distances and closer distances. Knowing your rifle and shooting ability are the limiting factors. A .44 or .45 caliber 300 + grain bullet leaving the barrels at anything above 800 fps is still very good down range. Big slow bullets do not bleed off energy like small fast ones. A shooter has got to know his limitations. Personally, I have 200 yards max for my 45-70, and I don't shoot at game animals over 300 yards with anything. Those are my limitations. Judging distance past 300 yards is where most shooters fail.

Just my 2 cents.

Love the site and the community.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #20 on:** September 12, 2010, 05:51:35 AM »

You guys and your "shorties" are gonna get me to darn friendly with a gunsmith that has really sharp hacksaw blades. Lets see, 45-70, 444 marlin, 38-55, 44 mag, 357 max., yep, troubles a brewin. DP

pruhdlr · « **Reply #21 on:** September 12, 2010, 07:48:37 AM »

Allow me to just "throw this out there" and tell me where I went wrong. With the big and slows.........most are used with a sight or scope of some kind,RIGHT ?? So the length between rear and front sight thing does not come into play,RIGHT ?? So the loss in velocity by the reduction in the length of bbl can be compensated for with the scope/sight adjustments,RIGHT ?? So most of these bigger bullets going a hundred(or so) fps slower will not effect the killing power of these big ol' bullets,RIGHT ?? Even target shooting you can give that scope a few clicks up for the number of inches you lopped off the bbl,RIGHT ??

Then....why lug around them long bbls ?? Especially for people like me that could easily walk several miles in one days hunting. Or hunt in the confined space of a small tent blind or chair blind. I've got some long guns. Most of the time they stay home in the safe. ---pruhdlr

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** September 12, 2010, 07:56:39 AM »

I couldn't agree more. I dislike long barreled guns.

tacklebury · « **Reply #23 on:** September 12, 2010, 02:07:31 PM »

I think the one positive for the long barrels is greatly dependant upon the powder being used and time of burn of said powder at a given charge. By having a longer barrel, you can get every ounce of power from your charge and this is especially important for long range shooters. I think this is why most black-powder long range guns have 32"+ long barrels and this is especially true of large capacity cases like the .45-90 to 120. I think for typical hunting ranges, however, this would be unnecessary.

Crow Juice · « **Reply #24 on:** September 12, 2010, 02:22:47 PM »

Don't have a Handy but have been using Hornaday 240grXTP's with 49 grs of H4198 for at least 15 years and it stops the small deer we have in West TN cold. Haven't tried cast bullets cause of the microgrove rifling.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** September 12, 2010, 03:23:10 PM »

Micro-Groove barrels shoot cast bullets just fine, bullets just need to be sized properly.

Tim

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell444Marlin.htm

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** September 12, 2010, 03:37:46 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on September 12, 2010, 03:23:10 PM

Micro-Groove barrels shoot cast bullets just fine, bullets just need to be sized properly.

Tim

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell444Marlin.htm

They sure do!

NFG · « **Reply #27 on:** September 13, 2010, 08:06:27 AM »

Boy...there must be a lot of very puny hunters out there...

.

Let's see if I got this right...you buy a large bore cannon so you can whack a bar with authority and finality...chop off it's nose so you loose velocity AND killing power turning it into a shadow of it's former self...say all that barrel loss is a weight saving measure...THEN...add a couple pounds of lead to reduce the recoil so it don't hurt as much...have I got this right. RIGHT??

Perfect logic...cut off a few inches of barrel to save ounces and add pounds of lead so it don't hurt...then say what a wonderful handling, nose bobbed, ugly as sin, unbalanced looking...whatever you call it...rifle?? Hahahahahahahah

Maybe you should take the 6 pack of Bud out of you pockets...THAT would save some weight.

Just woofing you. I like my two 16.5" Bobbers" for popping sage rats...perfect p/u guns. Someday soon I will get around to doing a 50 cal something switch barrel Bobber just to keep the T-Rex's away from the back fence.

Luck

gcrank1 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 13, 2010, 08:12:17 AM »

Ouch........
You mean I cut off my nose to spite my face?
Nope....aint no way Im cutting off that TM 38-55!

pruhdlr · « **Reply #29 on:** September 13, 2010, 10:16:47 AM »

First range day for the new 444. Put up a target a 25yds and "walked" the scope into the bull. Took 3 shots total....gotta love them Leupolds. Moved the target to 50yds and brought the scope in to 1/2 inch low. Only 3 more shots.

Had 15 rds of Hornady 265's over 43.0grs of H4198. Started cutting a ragged hole a little wider than tall, dead on at 50. Changed target and did the same with the remaining 5 shots. Then tried the hardcast. A 300gr WFNGC over 42.0grs of H4198. The 5 I had loaded cut a 1" hole,at 1:oclock just outside the bull.

Even though my Outfitter is heavier, the Handi seemed to have less recoil. Even with the hard rubber recoil pad that the smith added. I'm extremely happy that the 265's shot so well. I feel that they are a extremely good bullet for the 444's and I have probably 300 of them left. Will expierament with the >300gr hardcast ASAP, but for now the 300's will do what needs done even in my bigger hog area's.

Another great day at the range. ---pruhdlr