911 Video footage you're suppose to forget and some new footage--no Boeing

[Cabin4]

The org may be tax exempt...doesn't mean salaried wage earners are tax exempt....you should know that.

MG Stubblebine is right on target, in the 10 ring....he know's the system well.....we're lucky he's around.

TM7
.

I never said "he" does not pay personal income taxes. Jeffery Immelt of GE pays personal income tax! I guess your okay now with GE not paying federal income tax!!

I said his 501c corporation does not pay tax. Thats why they are a 501c. And anyone with a brain cell knows you can make a 501c maintain its non-profit status by raping the 501c of its revenue/donations in high salaries to maintain 501c status.

[billy_56081]

For one your General "Stubblebine" is a fraud. The only ones who give him any credibility as a bomb blast expert is himself and the conspiracy folks. He has no formal education or experience in either design engineering or explosive demolition.

Also again I'm sticking with my cousin and the thousands of other eye witnesses with consistent stories of an airliner hitting the pentagon.

[Cabin4]

The guy was a "Consultant" in the private sector to the DOD!!!! He formed a company and later sold it to TRW for $942million back in 1997.

He can pretty much say whatever he wants with that much money. He's an elitist who aquired his fortune from tax payers via the DOD.


http://www.ftc.gov/os/1998/04/9810081.cmp.htm

[Buckskin]

Looks like you're in full demonizing mode. What's the point of the above link..?  That the guy does business.. . he's not mentioned in the complaint??? The good general is a West Point grad as was his father; gaining the rank of MG is not taken lightly. He headed up Army Intell and had a distinquished career...he knows his stuff, and damage assesments. His opinion carries more weight than all your 113 witnesses put together actually. Fortunately, he has enough wealth to stand up for freedom and mention crimes against the people as he sees fit. He is held in very high regard with OathKeepers, too. Statements attempting to villianize him need to be proven in detail rather than emotional statements or throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks....start a thread if you like and spell it out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Buckskin...you thinking only those arabs are crafty/silent enough to pull off this stunt with 25 or less guys...??

..TM7
[/quote]

So his second hand guessing is better than 113 eyewitnesses that contradict his "opinion"That's just your characterization...it is actually hard analysis of facts and expert anaylsis. The official conspiracy account doesn't fit the facts and evidence. 

First of all, there were many more than 25 arabs involved to pull of that act of terrorism.How many...how many inside jobbers would it take, too?

Secondly, in order to pull of what you are indicating there would need to be lots of people/levels involved.  To start with, air traffic controllers that would turn a bomber shooting a missle into a jet crashing into the pentagon.  Not to mention the people aboard the jet, and those families of the deceaced.The air traffic controllers HAVE listed anomalies, secondly transponders were shut off on the planes and hyjack warning system weren't activated. The records from the ronkonkama traffic controll station for NYC were seized and destroyed.  Even the 911 Commission has said they were had and the pentacon lied, and need a real investigation.

And you never explained the jet that crashed into the field in Penn... And the infamous phone calls from the patriots who prevented another attack.Cell phone calls from planes have been proven fake...the planes were not equipped with cell phone devices as well...Cell phone connection from planes at above 4, ooo feet at 565pph is all but impossible...this was proven in 2002. The Pa crash site doesn't look like a plane crash site....no bodies, parts, luggage...the local coronor went home in 20 minutes no bodies. The WTC symetrical demolitons defy laws of physics and logic. Follow the shorting of stock options on 910-2001 and Rummie's missing 2.3 trillion speech.

I honestly can't believe I got suckered into this insane arguement. And even further, I can't believe that a moderator for GBO thinks that our government actually was responsible for 9/11.Well, you'd be surprized.


..TM7

[Cabin4]

TM7,

Here is the sequence of events on your beloved General Stubblebine:

Facts:
Retired from the Army in 1984
Hired as an independent consultant the US Department Of Defense (O Boy. That’s interesting)
Forms a defense contracting company named BDM Corporation and becomes a principal of said company (WOW. Even more interesting)
1997 he sells BDM to TRW for $942 million. TRW is a HUGE DOD contractor. (Uh. Yet even  more interesting)

So here’s the scoop. Gen Stubblebine has the connections to the DOD from his many years in top brass. He retires and his buddies in the DOD give him a job as a “Consultant”. Nothing more than a favor and way to rape the tax payers. He then forms this corporation while being a consultant to the DOD while weaving a pattern to heavily connect the DOD to BDM Corp. He then become a principal at BDM were the goal is to weave it even tighter to the DOD and force a connection through long term contracts. This creates a revenue stream from the DOD to BDM that will last for many , many years to come. Now, BDM having essentially made themselves a part of the DOD with all these long term contracts, puts the company up for sale. It’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars because they have a pile of long term DOD contracts on the books. TRW buys them for $942 million and General Stubblebine becomes a multi millionaire. His fortune is made on the military industrial complex setting the foundation for the perpetual war scenario that’s to come.

Now, General Stubblebine is done with making money off the Military Industrial Complex. He is out. Now it’s on the form a 501c tax exempt corporation named Health Freedoms. Org. Founded in 2004 with General Stubblebine as one of its Founders. How about the timing on this one. Their focus on is on changing health care and brining alternative means of medicine and treatment to the health care industry. Here are 2 key points (23 & 24) noted in their self proclaimed “Manifesto” http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=194

23.We understand that developing relationships with members of Congress in a spirit of respect is crucial to delivering the necessary education which will allow Congress to protect our health freedom. Congressmen and Congresswomen, individually and in their families, stand to lose as much as any other American if health freedom is lost to Codex Alimentations.

24.We choose to unite in numbers, organized cohesively thanks to the greatest communication tool ever invented: the Internet. We will organize ourselves into online and offline groups, letting our movement grow organically until our din can be heard in the halls of Washington D.C.
Well, how about that TM7. Now your beloved General is off to inject himself into the new Obamacare process. How many millions will he make off the tax payers on this one?

Looks like one of the criminals per your definition to me. Made hundreds of millions off the tax payers in the Military Industrial Complex killing and maiming our kids in perpetual war. Now it’s off the make millions from the tax payers on ObamaCare. Now that he’s done making millions on the Military Complex, he can make all kinds of outlandish statements against the DOD.

Don;t you find this all a bit hypocritical of yourself?

[Buckskin]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Buckskin...you thinking only those arabs are crafty/silent enough to pull off this stunt with 25 or less guys...??

..TM7

So his second hand guessing is better than 113 eyewitnesses that contradict his "opinion"That's just your characterization...it is actually hard analysis of facts and expert anaylsis. The official conspiracy account doesn't fit the facts and evidence. 

First of all, there were many more than 25 arabs involved to pull of that act of terrorism.How many...how many inside jobbers would it take, too?

Secondly, in order to pull of what you are indicating there would need to be lots of people/levels involved.  To start with, air traffic controllers that would turn a bomber shooting a missle into a jet crashing into the pentagon.  Not to mention the people aboard the jet, and those families of the deceaced.The air traffic controllers HAVE listed anomalies, secondly transponders were shut off on the planes and hyjack warning system weren't activated. The records from the ronkonkama traffic controll station for NYC were seized and destroyed.  Even the 911 Commission has said they were had and the pentacon lied, and need a real investigation.

And you never explained the jet that crashed into the field in Penn... And the infamous phone calls from the patriots who prevented another attack.Cell phone calls from planes have been proven fake...the planes were not equipped with cell phone devices as well...Cell phone connection from planes at above 4, ooo feet at 565pph is all but impossible...this was proven in 2002. The Pa crash site doesn't look like a plane crash site....no bodies, parts, luggage...the local coronor went home in 20 minutes no bodies. The WTC symetrical demolitons defy laws of physics and logic. Follow the shorting of stock options on 910-2001 and Rummie's missing 2.3 trillion speech.

I honestly can't believe I got suckered into this insane arguement. And even further, I can't believe that a moderator for GBO thinks that our government actually was responsible for 9/11.Well, you'd be surprized.


..TM7
[/quote]

TM7- How is that you were able to access my account and edit my post?[/b]

[Lost Farmboy]

What about the forensics?

What forensics are you talking about?  Did you check them out for yourself?  Or are you just taking other peoples word for them?  Do you have links?

Still waiting for forensics.

[Cabin4]

TM7,

Here is the sequence of events on your beloved General Stubblebine:

Facts:
Retired from the Army in 1984
Hired as an independent consultant the US Department Of Defense (O Boy. That’s interesting)
Forms a defense contracting company named BDM Corporation and becomes a principal of said company (WOW. Even more interesting)
1997 he sells BDM to TRW for $942 million. TRW is a HUGE DOD contractor. (Uh. Yet even  more interesting)

So here’s the scoop. Gen Stubblebine has the connections to the DOD from his many years in top brass. He retires and his buddies in the DOD give him a job as a “Consultant”. Nothing more than a favor and way to rape the tax payers. He then forms this corporation while being a consultant to the DOD while weaving a pattern to heavily connect the DOD to BDM Corp. He then become a principal at BDM were the goal is to weave it even tighter to the DOD and force a connection through long term contracts. This creates a revenue stream from the DOD to BDM that will last for many , many years to come. Now, BDM having essentially made themselves a part of the DOD with all these long term contracts, puts the company up for sale. It’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars because they have a pile of long term DOD contracts on the books. TRW buys them for $942 million and General Stubblebine becomes a multi millionaire. His fortune is made on the military industrial complex setting the foundation for the perpetual war scenario that’s to come.

Now, General Stubblebine is done with making money off the Military Industrial Complex. He is out. Now it’s on the form a 501c tax exempt corporation named Health Freedoms. Org. Founded in 2004 with General Stubblebine as one of its Founders. How about the timing on this one. Their focus on is on changing health care and brining alternative means of medicine and treatment to the health care industry. Here are 2 key points (23 & 24) noted in their self proclaimed “Manifesto” http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=194

23.We understand that developing relationships with members of Congress in a spirit of respect is crucial to delivering the necessary education which will allow Congress to protect our health freedom. Congressmen and Congresswomen, individually and in their families, stand to lose as much as any other American if health freedom is lost to Codex Alimentations.

24.We choose to unite in numbers, organized cohesively thanks to the greatest communication tool ever invented: the Internet. We will organize ourselves into online and offline groups, letting our movement grow organically until our din can be heard in the halls of Washington D.C.
Well, how about that TM7. Now your beloved General is off to inject himself into the new Obamacare process. How many millions will he make off the tax payers on this one?

Looks like one of the criminals per your definition to me. Made hundreds of millions off the tax payers in the Military Industrial Complex killing and maiming our kids in perpetual war. Now it’s off the make millions from the tax payers on ObamaCare. Now that he’s done making millions on the Military Complex, he can make all kinds of outlandish statements against the DOD.

Don;t you find this all a bit hypocritical of yourself?

NO answers from TM7....

[Buckskin]

Buckskin:  TM7- How is that you were able to access my account and edit my post?[/b]

I'm the mod here. Me and a few others can modify or delete your posts.  In this forum the rules are strictly enforced given the 'hot' topics discussed....don't wander off into casting aspersions, ridicule, or personal attacks (veiled or unveiled), on posters when the discussion doesn't go your way.....that's the rules....stick to the topic and analysis.  We will dicuss and argue as civilized intelligent men.  If you need to do those things mentioned go to another forum. As for me....don't for one second think I'm going to be somebody's whipping boy in this forum.

C4....villfy Gen Stubblebine all you want. I don't care...he is not beloved by me. He's a just a guy several paygrades above yourself and me, having a pretty distinquished mil career reaching MGen, with alot of inside information as he worked in intell for years and years. As a private citizen he is allowed to do what he wants and the Law allows. Bully for him.  His analysis/opinion of the pentacon attack therefore stands and carries ALOT of weight despite your villification of him.

Farmboy....alot of forensics, circumstantial evidence, and time line are in the "9:32, Clock that doesn't lie" thread....

..TM7

Well that's fine and dandy, but I had nothing in that post that was offensive in the least bit, I'm not even sure you edited my post, just added your comments onto mine as if they were from me.  I would appreciate if your going to comment on my post that you use your own account...

[Cabin4]

Your Major General has made hundreds of millions of dollars off the military industrial complex. All by influencing DOD operatives and taking advantage of his connections to the DOD to hood wink the tax payers. He started a 501c tax exempt corp because he has more money than he knows what to do with, not because he's heart is non-profit work. If this was not the case, why did he spend all those years of post military service trying to make his hundreds of millions??? But because he's singing your song now, he's all of a sudden become very credible.


My criticism here TM is not really about the Major General, it’s of you and your utter hypocrisy.

[Lost Farmboy]

Farmboy....alot of forensics, circumstantial evidence, and time line are in the "9:32, Clock that doesn't lie" thread....

..TM7

TM7 I saw the post.  I was looking for the forensics Billy saw that convinced him that the government story was true.  By the way what do these guys have against healthy food?

[billy_56081]

Lost I have seen tons of forensic evidence in the news.

What convinced me was my cousin being a witness along with thousands of others verses the conflicting stories of the tinfoil crowd.

[Lost Farmboy]

And again I will repeat, my cousin said " IT COULD NOT HAVE PULLED UP WITHOUT HIM SEEING IT".

I have seen this comment over and over.  It makes me think.

The last house I lived in was so close to the airport that I could sit in the back yard and read the ship numbers on the planes as they flew over the house and landed.  Each plane hit a runway seconds after I saw them.  If it only happened once I could easily said there was no way one could pull up without me seeing it.  But I would be lying.  For every plane I saw land one took off and pulled up in the other direction.  I never saw one pull up, but it was happening all the time.  What kind of expert was your cousin that he could make that kind of judgment?

[billy_56081]

Lost farmboy you appear to have your mind made up. My cousin along with thousands of other eye witnesses saw the pentagon attack. One consistant story.

BTW my cousin was retired Army.

[Cabin4]

Billy,
Don't you understand yet? Only retired military and non military that did NOT see the plane can be credible witnesses to the event. If you actually witness the event, it’s obvious your words cannot be trusted and its obvious you are part of the conspiracy. How is it possible that these hundreds of people could have seen this plane flying? They are obviously planted to advance the story of a real plane, not really a witness to the actual event. It’s all part of the "compartmentalization" of the conspiracy. Just before Bush orchestrated all the 9-11 events, he met with literally hundreds and hundreds of people so they would all get the story straight. Your cuz was obviously one of those that met with Bush. So the Major General, who was not there, did not see the plane, his words are golden. After all, he already made $942million off the DOD and now he's free to tell the truth.

[SomeGuyNamedMatt]

The fact that there is still evidence countering the 'given truth' that we're supposed to accept is enough to show that somewhere, someone is covering something up.  If this 'given truth' is the only truth as to what happened, then why is there still support behind the many people who disagree with it?  One man can fight on with no reason but himself, but when you have a group this large fighting so strongly with no reason according to what we're supposed to accept, then it goes to show that there must be another explanation.  And when there is another explanation going against what was given to us, then something of importance is being hidden somewhere or another.

I hope that was understandable.  Just $0.02 from a relative newcomer.

[Cabin4]

There is a conspiracy theory for every major event. That’s why it’s called a theory and not a fact. Just like the JFK assassination, for 40+ years so many have focused on the conspiracy theory, they forgot about the over whelming facts concerning Oswald as the single assassin.

[Lost Farmboy]

There is a conspiracy theory for every major event. That’s why it’s called a theory and not a fact. Just like the JFK assassination, for 40+ years so many have focused on the conspiracy theory, they forgot about the over whelming facts concerning Oswald as the single assassin.

Except for E. Howard Hunts taped death bed confession to his son; there are no over whelming facts.

[sdb777]

Occans Razor....hope I spelled that right?

Simply put, "the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."


Thousands of intelligent gathering people had no idea what was going on(although through the writting I've read that has been proved false), and 25 Muslims decided to get 72 virgins.  And an aircraft that completely vaporized, leaving absolutely no evidence of crashing into the pentagon can possibly exist(lack of pieces/luggage/aircraft engines at the site)

Or a weapon of some sort was fired at the pentagon. Causing an explosion that killed people and caused a lot of destruction in the accounting department(where there was evidence of $2.3 trillion dollars{that's a lot of taxpayer dollars} that is now unable to be accounted for).



Which one would you believe?

I think a little of both.....





Scott B

[Cabin4]

There is a conspiracy theory for every major event. That’s why it’s called a theory and not a fact. Just like the JFK assassination, for 40+ years so many have focused on the conspiracy theory, they forgot about the over whelming facts concerning Oswald as the single assassin.

Except for E. Howard Hunts taped death bed confession to his son; there are no over whelming facts.

E Howard Hunt had no idea what he's talking about. The facts against Oswald are overwhelming and if alive, his conviction would be a near guarantee. The speculation of a conspiracy is all conjecture and little to no supporting facts. The entire conspiracy was given birth from the concept of a second gunman. This entire theory has been totally debunked. Without a second shooter, there ain't no more conspiracy. I don’t care about the Warren Commission report. Just look at the shooting facts and the facts against Oswald. He was the only shooter. Those facts are as strong as it gets. Were others involved behind the scenes, perhaps but that is all pure speculation. There was one shooter and it was Oswald.

[SomeGuyNamedMatt]

Like TM said, though - if the 'official conspiracy' is indeed correct, why doesn't someone come out and put an end to this?  I mean, with all of this evidence they seem to think they have, why doesn't someone simply come out and give a definitive verdict on what happened that leaves no doubt whatsoever?  It's like they're just poking people with little pieces of obscure evidence that isn't clear enough to give any more validity to their side of the story...

[Cabin4]

I guess read the 9-11 Commision report and then wait for the KSM trial to take place.

[Lost Farmboy]

SO in your "opinion" which was it a cruise missile that was coordinated with a very low flyover or a remote controlled airliner that flew so low that no professional pilot would have been able to fly that plane? 

I think I'll stick with my cousin telling me that he saw the airliner fly very low over him in the direction of the pentagon, and immediately after heard the impact and saw the smoke.

How about a poll of whose sounds more believable?

So this is where the poll came from. See why some thought Billy was talking about the Pentagon?

[billy_56081]

So funny. "I don't like the results so I'll say I didn't understand the question". I'm glad that simple questions are easy to understand.