45-70 recoil?

[roscoe]

Need some comparisons on 45-70 recoil in a guide gun as I have had shoulder repairs a couple years back and would still really like to get one but not sure if I'm up to it. Thanks for any input.

[mechanic]

There have been a series of posts over on the NEF forums about this.  Basically it's whatever you want it to be, or as much as you can stand.

With factory Rem. 405 gr. it's about like a mild 20 ga.  With hotter loads it's more like a 12 ga.

[roscoe]

Thank You for the comparison. I think I'll give it a go; sounds like if I can handle my 50 cal with 150 grns powder a few shots at a time from the 45-70 won't put me down for the count. 

[Capt. Augustus]

I had my right shoulder replaced 3 years ago, and I tend to be very cautious.  I recently started shooting a .45-70 in a Buffalo Clsassic and Marlin 1895.  Locally we are having a 200 yard shoot, so I don't need to kill anything.  I wear a Ladies Past shoulder pad under a thick Past shield and have been doing good.   Last year I tried a Knight RB muzzleloader and was limited to 60 grains of 777 with the  thin pad.  I'm shooting a Lee 405-HB bullet with 13 grains of Unique or 55 grains of BP and so far no pain.

[mcwoodduck]

There have been a series of posts over on the NEF forums about this.  Basically it's whatever you want it to be, or as much as you can stand.

With factory Rem. 405 gr. it's about like a mild 20 ga.  With hotter loads it's more like a 12 ga.

+1
The 300 Grain JHP loads are a little more recoil.  I have an older 1895 with the longer barrel.
But there is not a deer, Black bear, or other antlered critter that can take a 405 in the boiler room and go far.

[Bitterroot Bob]

Seriously,
I'll take my 30-06 over a Marlin with 400 grain smokeless loads. Compared to a Winchester 1886, the Marlin is a LIGHT rifle and a 405gr LFN over 48 grains of Reloder7 will slap the reason back into your brain. Three shot groups should suffice.

Bitterroot

[BBF]

Seriously,
........................a 405gr LFN over 48 grains of Reloder7 will slap the reason back into your brain.

Bitterroot

My sentiments as well. Anytime you launch that sort of weight with that much powder you will remember it.

[Bearcat 74]

I shoot 42grs RL7 with the 405's, it's about like a 20 gauge, 48grs would suck.  None of the elephants or dinosuars we have here in TN require 48grs when I polled them, they all answered 42grs would make them perish.   

[BBF]

I have loaded a number of Hdy 350 gr RN's. The Minimum Muzzle V for proper expansion is 1800 fps according to the folks at Hdy. I push that bullet with 50 gr. of RL-7 and it is NOT a pleasant load to shoot.

[jcn59]

The first thing I did when I got my 1895 was to load some 405 jacketed to the max and went elk hunting.   It was so much fun not to shoot it that I hardly used it for years.  Shot two small deer with it.

Eventually I got some wisdom and loaded it down to near Trapdoor data velocities, and the fun came back.  Still, a 300 grain bullet out of an 8# gun @ 1650 fps gets you 19# of free recoil energy.  Shoot a 405 grain bullet at 2000 fps out of the same gun, and the recoil doubles.

[choppa]

Ive got two ruger 458 lotts a number 1 and a RSM, I find them more comfortable to shoot than my Guide gun in 45/70 with fullhouse loads

[Blackhawker]

If you're concerned for your shoulder but want some 45-70 WHOMP, get yourself a 45-70 Thompson Contender pistol with a 12 or 14 inch barrel. 
 Even at trapdoor range loads, you can achieve 1600 fps with 300 grain bullets 

[surveyor47]

I would not buy a Guide Gun again. Instead, I would buy the standard Marlin 1895. When Marlin originally designed that gun with a 24 inch barrel, they knew what they were doing. The extra barrel length will absorb more recoil and allow the gun to be shot at longer ranges accurately, if fitted with an approprate ladder or peep sight.  The Guide Gun is a very specialized setup, perfect for up close and personal encounters with game. For deer and hog, I see no reason that Trapdoor loads (factory loads) should not be perfectly adequate.  If dealing with elk, large hog or bear, I would go with a Marlin load and a bullet appropriate to the game and velocity. For a day at the range, I see no reason to bruise up my shoulder and return home with it swollen, which is exactly what happens to me with Marlin loads.

[roscoe]

Picked up the 1895G in 45/70 and a couple bxs of factory Winchester 300 JHP's for starters; now just to get out and see whats what! Will try some different loads in due time depending on what I'm Hunting. Thanks for your replies.

[ejpaul1]

mine kicks like a dern mule. I like it but it would be challenging to shoot more than 20 at a time. I hope to take a whitetail with it in a few weeks. EJ

[davem270win]

Yes, the 45-70 does kick, but it's more of a shove than a punch. Factory loads at trapdoor pressures won't be too bad. But, yea, a hot reload with a 400 grain can smart a little. But then, I'm not overly sensitive to recoil.

[ejpaul1]

I agree, the recoil is less sharp than my 06, my marlin leaves me thinkin after a few rounds. I exclusivly shoot lever revolution in it, the 325 grainers, and it wakes me up. I weigh about 175 pounds, so I aint got the bacon to shoot that thing all day. Reciol does effect me, but not as bad for the first few rounds. EJ

[Bearcat 74]

My first 45/70 experience was with a 24" barreled Encore with open sights, YEE HAW!!  I shot a couple boxes of 300gr Rem's from it and was thinking, "this ain't bad at all."  I got my componets together to load and a friend gave me a "great" load with the 405gr Rem + RL7 = 48grs.  "I've shot it for years without a problem."  I stick a couple together and set up the chrono.  I fire one and I am left thinking, "this reall is that bad!"  It sent that 405 sailing across the screens a a cool 2048fps from about a 6lb rifle and a stock recoil pad. 

[BBF]

For my Handi I have settled on a pleasant and accurate load. You will find it in Lyman 48th Edition under pistol loads but not in the rifle section.

 405 gr Rem pushed with 27 gr of 2400 no filler. It shows a MV of over 1400 fps from a 16" barrel.
With the Handi's 22 barrel I figure a 1500 fps MV almost 200 fps faster then the factory load.

[roscoe]

Thanks for all the replies. Seems I'll have no problems as long as I wear the right jacket.(Found that out after the 1 st 10 shot string was felt for 3 days!) That Guide Gun is a Hoot to shoot though! I'm surprised at how acurrate it is with the factory iron sights even though I don't care for them. With the Factory Winchester loads I was able to get some 50-80 yd 1 1/2" x 3 shot groups and even a 2 shot almost single hole group @ 80 yds. over the hood of the truck. I'll need different sights any further out for these eyes. Can't wait to drop a big Whitetail with it.

[Lloyd Smale]

with factory 405 remingtons out of a guide gun i dont find the recoil any heavier then a 3030 winchester shooting factory ammo. Now ive got loads with 465 to 550 grain cast bullets that will make even the most recoil proof rifleman wince. with loads like that it will get on you as bad as any 458mag.

[BBF]

Somebody previously wrote that the felt recoil from the 300 gr Win is higher then from the 405 gr Rem load.  I found the same. I have not tried any of the other 300 gr factory loads and presume it would be similar.

[simplicity]

I have been running 52.0 grains of imr 3031 in my guide gun. It's about the most efficient load I have found just buy my own loadings any more powder and there isn't much  did get the whole rail and everything along with the sights but I ended up not using the rail cause I liked the sights so much. Plus I think it looked gouldy with the rail and no scout scope. Plus just leaving it with the open sights makes for one pretty like carrying gun over a mountain.

[simplicity]

My bad the load was 52.0 grains of imr 3031 for the remington 405's

[Tackleberry]

I find none of the cast bullet loads are a recoil problem.. They are probably all in the Trapdoor range as far as velocity goes. I wanted to load up some jacketed bullets for hunting (300 grain JHP's) in my Marlin cowboy and even moderate loads are difficult to take. The lever beats up my hand and the forearm is a little hard to hold on to.  I added a larger lever ring which helped the hand a bit..so I prefer cast bullet loads in my Cowboy...

[ejpaul1]

Anyone else here use the hornday leverrevolutions? I use them exclusively. I reload for every other rifle caliber in my safe bu this one. I dont think I could improve on it. I am shooting open sights on it. With a jacket for a rest and the shooter being mediocre (me) I can get a 4 inch group at 100 yards. The winchesters were slightly less accurate, but considering the circumstances, could be me.

[supertodd]

I don't think it kicks all that much around a 20 gauge for recoil. it kicks less than my 264 wm, or 35 whelen.

[GH1]

I shot a 45-70 today with Federal 300 loads, and I thought it kicked quite a bit. However, the same gun loaded with a 300 gr swaged ofer 14.0 gr of Trail boss and the gun was quite pleasurable. Accurate, too.
GH1

[tdoor4570]

My wife stole my Marlin 1895G in 45-70  her load is 565 gr. IMR3031  with a 350gr. round nose. she thinks the recoil is just fine.  My 45-70 is a NEF single shot,  load is 54.5 gr. IMR 3031 with a 325gr. FTX slug. rifle weights 6.5lb.  that one backs up a little. but both shoot 1" at 100 yds.

[tdoor4570]

My bad  55 gr. not 565  can't type not enough cofffee yet