The primary purpose of the long gun

[don heath]

Just thinking ands seeing the very different Ideas on rifles/shotguns on the threads over the last year....

I'll assume most people see a handgun as a defensive weapon but the long arm?
do you a) See it primarily for self defece with a secondary fuction as an aid to foraging or b) Primarily as a means to harvest game/domestic stock for food with a secondary function being self defence?

I am definately A... The rifle or Shotgun is for defence. In a short term survival secario it can be used to harvest a quick meal (like shooting Gunea fowl with a 9,3 rifle...overkill, but a meal is a meal). In a long term survival scenario it may be used initally to harvest game but after say 1 month I would have moved onto more efficient means of food aquisition.  The rifle (or shotguns) primary Purpose is then to protect me and my family and what is ours against those who would harm us, and also to assist in the negotiations with folk I don't like as to why they should give me whatever I want that they have.

Thoughts? who is where?

[blind ear]

+1 Don Heath, others have said traps and snares are the most efficent way to harvest game. Save the ammo for dier uses. draw less atention to your location. eddiegjr

[Swampman]

The primary use is for food.  There's no real need for a handgun as they are useless weight.

[don heath]

I have often wondered why folk see the need to use a firearm to harvest food...and everybody in a long term scenario thinks of wild game..cattle and goats are one heck of alot easier to 'harvest' than an eland...and if I have a gun and the cattle owner doesn't...guess who's family gets dinner Also, after a month or so, you either have to move onto a more 'sustained' system of food production ...like keeping your own chickens and planting some corn or you will find out just how few people the 'wilderness' can support...eg Sweden was thought to be able to support 20,000 people prior to the introduction of oats...and Sweden is a big country with lots of Moose etc

Continental USA...sustain 250-500,000 people max as hunter/gatheres...and while you are waiting for 99% of the population to die/be killed off, they are going to suck the forests clean.

Anyway...this isn't to start an argument- and I respect Swampmans views...but it also explains his firearms choice and other ideas, and why they are so different to mine.

[blind ear]

I have killed frogs, squirls, ferrel cats, ducks, racoons, opossoms and other wild creaturs up to the size of coyotes with a Browning Buckmark pistol. I Have no doubt that I could kill a deer with it. I think it would be an efficent game getter if need be. eddiegjr

[kynardsj]

I agree with parts of some of the previous posts. A long gun is a good way to put food on the table in the beginning and occasionally during a long term survival situation. Other more quiet means would come into play later and then it would be a way to keep what you have. As far as having a pistol in this situation, I'm confident enough with my abilities with a pistol that one or more would always be on me for taking food and/or for protection. A 22 and a bigger bore pistol would be a good combo to have. Over the last 30 years or more I've put a hundred rounds thru a pistol for every one I've put thru a long gun. In long guns a shotgun is what it is, a scattergun for closer ranges while a rifle is a way of being more accurate at longer distances. 

[Swampman]

I hunted with a pistol only for years.  If you have a hunting pistol and can hit out to 60-70 yards they are fine.

[Hooker]

Fishing equipment will serve you better for food gathering than a rifle.
The rifle dose not have a single primary roll in my opinion you use it as is necessary when necessary.
It is a last resort tool for when all other survival tools and techniques have failed.
Like savings account for that rainy day.

Pat

[Swampman]

In the deep south you'll starve without a gun.  A shotgun would be the best.

Daniel Boone said North FL was the only woods he'd ever seen where a man could starve to death.  North FL was also where he got lost for a few days.  These swamps will eat you up.

[teamnelson]

Long guns for defense primary, hunting secondary. I picture 3 weeks after the collapse, medium game and domestic animals shot inhumanely, butchered poorly, meat wasted by hungry folks tired sick who empty their AR into farmers browns dairy cow. The ever popular survival rifles in 308 (M1, PTR, etc) are great for big game, but we don't have any here. And my guess no one will about 2 mos after the collapse. I'll be hunting pig, chicken, mongoose and after awhile feral pets for the pot with my hunting pistol, and save my larger caliber rifle ammo for predators.

If you've not read Patriots, there's a couple parts that demonstrate the value of a long gun for reach. Bunch of thugs blocking a road armed with shotguns and pistols would have difficulty against 1 guy with a scoped rifle 200yds out.

[Swampman]

What most folks call a "survival rifle" I call junk.

[teamnelson]

What most folks call a "survival rifle" I call junk.

You can tell alot about how long folks think they'll need to survive before help comes by the rifle they choose; and I'd concur that some choices I would consider "junk."

I'm beginning to think you might do well to have 3 rifles based on phases of survival. In the wake of a massive collapse, with the population going through its predictable winnowing process, a battle rifle of sorts would be wise - hunting will be less essential as we eat up stores. Phase 2 would be shifting to that different food source model Don talks of, and a reliable hunting gun would be wise then. Phase 3 is when we used up or destroyed existing stores and the means to manufacture, at which point a flintlock might be very handy. You could probably cover Phase 1 & 2 with a single option, if you intentionally avoid large crowds like Swampy. And if you learned how to make a bow, then Phase 3 might be covered as well.

[Empty Quiver]

Where I live I can see about all the game being gone in roughly 4 days. About 1 acre of cover per 1200 acres of tilled soil. I'm thinking vegetarian is the easy choice around here.

From what I have gathered Don, you have lived this survival thing and I respect what you have to offer. My rifles will offer some sort of stand off capability while at "home", out and about I wonder if they would draw the wrong sort of attention. I think that is where a concealed handgun would shine. I don't rule out a Mad Max world, but figure it is pretty unlikely.  Police confiscating your openly carried weapons for the common good seems a likely scenario, to me anyway.

[don heath]

Police (and or Army) working against the 'citizens' is common in just about every disaster scenario from the Congo, through the Zimbabwe economic melt down to Katrina.

In Zimbabwe, most of the farmers who were murdered were disarmed by the police prior to the malitai arriving or were arested by the police and handed over to the malitia. Once the mass intimidation of the rural peasants got into it's stride the government had second thoughts about all the .303 rifles they had sold off a decade previously and the police were sent out to 'recover' as many of them as possible. It was all done 'legally'- incorrect storage, massive increase in licensing fees to several times what most peasants could afford etc...but the real truth of the matter is, that in dangerous and destabilised times, the law enforcement authorities (or the UN troops)  think they should have all the decision making power and have the only guns to back it up.