Thinking about a big bore...........

[shawlerbrook]

Title says it all. Tell me the pro's/con's of a 45-70;450 ;444, etc. Probably thinking about an elk, moose or bear gun.

[Dixie Dude]

45-70 is probably the best overall.  More ammo availibility.  Load from mild to wild.  Can match the 450 in handloads.  Brass is cheaper than 450 brass.  444 would have been great if they had just lengthened the 44 mag.  It is a larger diameter brass, so a 44 can't be shot in a 444.  444 doesn't have as good a large bullet selection. 

[mcwoodduck]

+1 for the 45-70
Actually I have three (45-70) rifles,
Bolt action,
Falling block single shot
and a lever rifle.
Like them.
45-70 can go from 45 colt to the bottom end of 458Win mag and evrything inbetween.

[brianscott12]

I agree on the 45/70. I also own three of them and it's my favorite caliber.
45/70 45/70 45/70 45/70 45/70 45/70

[dpe.ahoy]

First, do you reload?  If you do, 444 is as good as the 45-70.  If you don't, go with the 45-70, better selection of bullets and power levels from factory loads.  I own two 45-70's and three 444's and like the 444 better.  But then, I've always liked being a little different .  DP

[shawlerbrook]

Yes, I do reload. DPE.AHOY, what do you like about the 444?

[snowbird]

New here.  I had a 45-70 (Marlin CB).  Now I have 444.  Shoot LE's in it,  I also load 240 XTP's, and I loaded up some 444/410 shot shells in it.  I have not shot those yet.

To me it is kind of like the 30-06 vs 280 vs 270 thing.

But I would rather shoot 265 grains or 240 grain bullets then 400,350 grain bullets.  I shot a couple of deer with the 4570 loaded with 300 hp's (splat).

[dpe.ahoy]

Lighter bullet weight with the same BC and SD as the 45-70's, 265 gr .430 is equal to the 300 gr .458.  300 gr 430 is about the same as 350gr 458.  Less recoil, same results on game.  And it's not as popular as the 45-70, which I like.  Less of a rainbow trajectory than the 45-70 with out getting into some pretty nasty recoil from the old girl.  Guess it comes down to all the positives of the 45-70 plus a few more.  DP

[rsl]

45/70 is so versitile.. you can shoot anything from round ball to a 500+ grain bullet as fast or slow as you want.. Easy choice..

[JeffG]

45-70 is probably the best overall.  More ammo availibility.

I love my 45/70 GG unported, with the scout scope rail from XS Lever Rail.

[Empty Quiver]

I have the standard length in 45/70 and am smitten with it.

Here is something I have thought for a while. All three are pretty formidible rounds. I can't believe that any game hit with one in the ribcage is gonna walk it off. Be honest with yourself about how much you will shoot it in a lifetime. Compare the cost of ownership. Now go for a drive and find an excellent new or used model and purchase one. I don't think you will make a poor choice with any of the three calibres mentioned.

Your use will determine which is most practical for your needs. They are all pretty much best, one will be more best for you.

[Mikey]

shawlerbrook:  get the 444; same bore diameter as the 44 magnum with bullet weight ranging from 180 to 405 gns.  Any parts catalog will have a nominal supply of jacketed bullets in the .429-.430 diameter which are suitable for the 444.  If you want to go heavier than 300 gns in a jacketed slug then go to Beartooth Bullets.com and read what they say about the 444, about bore lapping and what they offer for cast gas checked slugs.  Then drop on down to the veral Smith Forum to read what he and other posters have to say about bore lapping or fire lapping, and then go to town and get that 444. 

What dpe.ahoy said x 2.  The 444 is flatter shooting than the 45-70.  With the 444 you have only one pressure range for cartridges but the 45-70 has 3 different pressure ranges - one for the older Roling Blocks, one for the Marlin lever actions and one for the single shots and the pressures get higher as you go along.  With the 444, even trying some of the 405 gn slugs available from Beartooth the pressures remain within limits but the performance is phenomenal. 

I have 3 444s, one with a custom 26" barrel that shoots 180 and 200 gn varmit loads so fast that all ya see is fur and parts flyin' even before you hear the gun go off.  This rifle loves the Beartooth 335 gn wide flat nose gas checked slug that it throws out at 2300'/sec and the brass literally drops out of the chamber - this rifle is absolutely dead nutz on accurate.  I chose the 335 gn load for this one as it grouped 1/4 inch better at 100 yds (3 shots into a cloverleaf) but I chose the 300 gn slug at 2300'/sec for my 20" traditional rifle (Marlin microgroove rifling) because that shot 1/4 inch better at 100 yds than the 335 gn load.

BTW - both rifles shoot jacketed slugs with the same degree of accuracy. 
But my Timber Carbine is a real hoot - it loves the 300 gn cast loads but I just haven't yet found out which one it likes best. 

I would go with the 444.......

[wallacem]

I have 6 45-70's and 1 450, and 2 444's.  I appreciate them all. One does about as good as the other.  Does that mean I need to sell 8 of them? NO!  Wallacem in Ga

[Oldshooter]

Weellllllllll this is a fine howdoyado Now I'm thoroughly confused !!!     I want a big bore lever gun and have been in a quandary about which one to get, 444, 45 70, And this thread has convinced me I'll just have to get one of each! 

Yous guys are no help at all, and I'm gonna blame "you" when the time comes to splain my new purchases to my "CFO"

[jobyjob]

45-70 hands down. You will never look back.

[streak]

I have the 444Marlin and 45-70 in the Marlin lever action. Both are pretty accurate, although I think the 444 slightly edges out the 45-70. Which one? Hard choice! If situation ever arose for a elk hunt and shots might get on the long side, I would probably opt for the 444 due to flatter trajectory with the right load.
Bob Milek back in his time wrote a great article about shooting red stags in Argentina for Guns & Ammo using the 444 Marlin where I believe some shots were over 200 yards. Wish I could find that article again because it also gave the reloading information for his loads!

[brianscott12]

Start small and get a 444 then when you get good with it you ought to be able to handle a 45/70.

[BluDino]

I had the same dilemma.  Went with the 45-70 for the same reasons others mention.  Brass availability, versatility, bullet selection and I have found that it can be a phenomenally accurate cartridge, too. 

[handirandy]

You can pour over tables and charts.  You can listen to opinions.  You can read reviews.
All three put deer on the ground - if you do your part.  For me it is the 45-70 because of every reason listed above.  This coming from a guy that has hunted for a lot of years with a 444.

[WyoStillhunter]

444 works just fine.  I got the big bore itch a few years ago.  I found a "good deal" on a used 444 and took it.  I have never looked back. 

[Tony65x55]

You have yourself a quandary.  I solved mine by going .444 many years ago.  When I was a lad I went moose hunting with a buddy whose Dad owned an outfitters camp.  Since Dad really wanted us to get a moose each, he loaned us two of his best guides.  My guide was a grizzled old veteran of the Canadian north woods.  I don't remember his name now but I sure remember the rifle that he carried.  It was a long barreled Marlin lever gun with a short magazine.  I asked him what it was and he replied, "a .444 Marlin."  I asked him why and he said he hated chasing wounded moose.  He pulled a tattered box of cartridges from his pack and showed me the six he had left in the box muttering about how he would have to get another box next year.  He said he had killed 12 moose with the other 14 cartridges.  I was a kid and the implications of that didn't impress upon me at the time, but a day later he made it 13 for 15.  After flubbing the shot with my old sporterized Lee-Enfield (I never could hit a barn with that thing), I watched as he placed one shot with that .444 into the boiler room and the moose collapsed like someone had dropped the office safe on his head.  I was wired...

I now have four of them and have never desired anything else.  The .444 is more efficient than the .45-70.  It does more with less.  Less powder, less lead, less recoil, more accuracy, more velocity.  Mine has accounted for a goodly number of moose, deer and large black bears and it lays them down with finality.  For the handloader, bullets and loads abound and you'll always feel a little smug knowing you know something the average hunter doesn't know. 

[mannyrock]

OK,

   Here is how to decide.

   If you are strictly using it for hunting, and don't want to handload, get the .444 Marlin. There are a good number of factory loads that will kill really big game with no sweat.

   If you like to handload, and like to plink, punch targets, shoot metal silouttes, and hunt, then get the .45-70.

   It's that simple!

Manny

[Flynmoose]

I handload and went with the 45-70. I love the history
of the 45-70 and tossing a big hunk of lead at the target.
FM