Last year's ammo shortage, why only handgun ammo and primers?

[His lordship.]

Now that ammunition is available once again, including the once hard to get .380 ACP, I have a question?  With the fear of Obama and the Democrat's majority held house and senate last year, the shortage of handgun ammo seemed logical with the fear hoarding. 

What gets me is why the shortage of primers?  And why was it so easy to get .223 and 7.62 X 39?  Surely, Obama would have targeted the so called "Evil assault rifles" first, then get the handguns?  But primers?  That is a product for the hand loaders, not gang bangers.   

Anyone with some psychological training, industry experience, etc. that understood what 2009's hoarding was about with the "selective" ammo stockpiling?

Thanks.

[southernutah]

everything was short here and I mean everything. Back to normal now but twice the price. Primmers went fast as they would be needed to reload if ammo completely disaappeared along with the war using a lot of ammo there just wasn't enough to go around. People maxed their credit to hoard what they could find. Gun shows here ran out of supplies the first day. 223 was not to be found as was the 762x39 , used brass was going for the price of new ammo which was not to be found. People will buy what the military uses hence the 223 and 762x39, ARs and SKS or AK the most popular.

[coyotejoe]

Same here, stores were out of everything from .22 to 12 gauge. Our local Walmart now has a pretty good stock but for a couple of years the shelves were bare. Primers were scarce because it's easier and cheaper to hoard reloading components than to hoard factory loaded ammo, especially when you can't get the loaded ammo.

[Land_Owner]

Last year I specifically asked Midway USA's Customer Service Department about the lack of reloading supplies as their Purchasing Power is SIGNIFICANTLY greater than the individual (me).  They were back ordered by the manufacturers and could get nothing.  They were out in their warehouse.  It HURT their (Midway's) Retail Sales in '09, just as it did everyone else in retail.  

When there was any 2009 retail supply, the price was DOUBLE the pre-'09 value.  Now that shelves are beginning to be stocked again, the price has only fallen to 2/3 of its original value, or about a 50% increase over 2009 pricing.  

One local "start-up" gun store has their primers "On Sale" for post-'09 pricing INCLUDING the addition of the HAZMAT fee making their shelve stock MORE THAN DOUBLE the pre-'09 value.  I think they will be keeping those primers for quite some time.

It may be "no shakes" for most, but the price increase for gas checks, copper cups used on lead bullets, doubled in this time too.  Now I ask, why should a post-'09 stupid, do little copper cup cost AS MUCH AS a 2009 three part cup/anvil/explosive primer?  I just cannot fathom an answer.

[rockbilly]

I understand one of the factors was the need for the copper on the world market,  The price of copper jumped to the highest it has ever been during this period and continues to grow. 

[Mikey]

No my friends, it was not the need for raw metals anywhere else in the world, it was the evil obama-socialista plot to deny American handgun owners not their rights (Gawd forbid) but the means to exercise those rights.  After all, he said he would not take our guns from us but nasty nancy (who I hope is the shortest term house speaker in the history of the house) doesn't want us to have any boolets, or gunpowder or anything that would make the gun go 'bang'. 

This is purely a lib-d-rat socialista plot fueld by inner city dweller fears of armed country folk comin' to dinner...................

I have noticed that military rifle calibers are available.  It is good that we (civilians) shoot the same caliber as do the government troops, at least we know where our next re-supply will come from...................

[His lordship.]

Location seems to have been an influence, before I left Minnesota in Dec. 2008 I noticed the handgun ammo was starting to get limited in my favorite gun store, but there was plenty there still.  Bought a small amount for the move due to the heavy weight of the ammunition. 

Get to Central Texas and go to my first gun show, in March 2009 and the only thing I saw was a few boxes of .22 rimfire (usually Remington's Thunderbolt) at inflated prices, some expensive .38 special +P's and lots of .44 magnum revolver ammunition.  I did not know about the ammo shortage yet, and thought the Texans were totally into .44 magnum only, and no other caliber!   Heard the old saying growing up "Everything is big in Texas", thought that was true with their guns too?!

I found the 7.62 X 39 and .223 ammo available, but the price doubled.  Spent 2009 just shooting pellet guns and .22 rimfire, then got back into black powder cap and balls pistols.  The high prices of centerfire rifle ammo and many of the large caliber handguns is too prohibitive to me.  I sold my .45 ACP 1911 due to that.  I used to shoot .243 and 30-06 on a regular basis, not now.  At $18.00 to $35.00 a box of 20, I doubt I will get that .270 bolt action that I have been shopping for! 

It will be interesting to see if ammo goes down after Obama leaves office in 2 years.

[SHOOTALL]

I have heard that producers of ammo are limited by people and machines as to production levels. They were faced with adding people and machines to make more ammo during a rush or just making all they could with out investing capital on machines that could go silent before it was paid for. It was a business decision plain and simple. That said i heard a billion rounds a year were being used in the wars we are fighting. Also machines were taken off production for maintance from time to time to keep them running at top speed. Ammo makers also don't have a machine line for each round they set up and make a run then retool and make another . That might be why military ammo was aval. and other stuff was not as they could slip in a run from time to time without retooling. I talked with a police friend who said they were having a hard time getting ammo. He is allowed to get ammo thru. his department and keep a standing order while the shortage was on. Here in Va. it is not back to normal , stores have little if any 357 mag and for 125 gr JHP its $50.00 + a box of 50. My grandfather told me years ago to keep hunting ammo on hand - " it gets hard to get during a war" he had gone thru ww1,ww2, kor, vn etc he knew .

[Curtis]

Shootall has it right, I think.  I work in industry and it is called "Just In Time" delivery and saves warehousing costs.  Almost everyone has gone to this business model.  The finished goods producer depends upon the components manufacturer to put components at their dock "just in time".  The components manufacturer depends upon the raw materials supplier in the same way and so on.  If there is a hiccup anywhere along the supply chain, finished goods production is affected.

In the case of ammo sales, the computer predictions everybody along the supply chain uses for "just in time" production failed to take the panic buying into account.  I even heard that their predictions were for lagging sales because of the economic meltdown.  Pretty soon, the whole supply chain from beginning to end was emptied out and playing catch-up.

No matter the industry, they call it "maximizing profits" while I call it "corporate greed".  When the product and the consumer are impacted in such a negative way by unsound business decisions then something is broken.

Curtis

[southernutah]

You hit the stores here now and the shelves are loaded with ammo and components. The shortage may turn in to the surplus. Hoping it will drive the price down some. It is never tolate to start learning reloading. You can still roll your own a lot cheaper the factory ammo. I have talked to a gun range a few times about starting a reloading group but nothing is happening.

[guzzijohn]

If so many had not been so paranoid about Obama there never would have been any shortages and probably would only be paying a bit more now for everything. Many just have to look in the mirror to see what caused the shortages and high prices. Sorry if the truth hurts.
GuzziJohn

[coyotejoe]

There is a lot of truth in that, the shortage was pretty much self inflicted. Guns & ammo are not the only things which have gotten expensive, have you gotten an oil change lately? Or even a tank of gas? I used to have a pretty good idea of what I'd have to pay for most things, today I am constantly shocked at the prices of just about everything. It is tough for us old farts on a fixed income, but I guess we're all in that boat now, only congress can get a pay raise.

[SHOOTALL]

If so many had not been so paranoid about Obama there never would have been any shortages and probably would only be paying a bit more now for everything. Many just have to look in the mirror to see what caused the shortages and high prices. Sorry if the truth hurts.
GuzziJohn

I think the fear was more for the dumb-o-crat congress ( they pass laws )

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Shootall:

I think the fear was more for the dumb-o-crat congress ( they pass laws )

You are right that congress pass the laws, however based on that congress was about as big of a threat when GW was president but the paranoia didn't appear until Obama was the president elect.
GuzziJohn

[SHOOTALL]

Not so sure since you couldn't get an AR or ammo at least a year before O took over. O could only sign what congress sent him . Funny thing was after O got in congress said they had learned their lesson and would not attack gun owners .

[teddy12b]

No matter the industry, they call it "maximizing profits" while I call it "corporate greed".  When the product and the consumer are impacted in such a negative way by unsound business decisions then something is broken.

I really think it came down to supply and demand, not an elaborate design for the industry to screw their own customers for short term profits.  The obama scare started small, kept gaining traction, and before anyone knew it there was a mob mentallity of buying guns & ammo.  With just in time delivery as mentioned it really slowed down the ability to get product out the door.  I remember I paid just over $30 for a brick of 22lr ammo and that was because I hadn't seen any for months.  The supply and demand worked both ways and the dealers and manufacturers didn't always make out like bandits.  I remeber seeing 30rd mags selling for $30 or more a piece and that was a good buy at the time.  Now you can buy 10packs of the same 30rd mags for $90 shipped to your door.  They made hey, and hopefully didn't spend all their extra money they got because they need it now.  I bought an AR just months before the election by buying a complete lower and complete upper.  I had $700 in the gun.  During the scare, I could have easily sold it for twice that, but I didn't.

The Obama scare taught me a lesson, and that's to be prepared.  I was too young to really understand the effects of the Clinton Ban, but this last scare taught me a lesson, BE PREPARED.  Now I don't have to worry about running out of 22lr or 30rd mags, or guns in general.  I'm pretty content with what I have, but I'm still taking advantage of todays ammo prices and stocking up.

It probably wouldn’t be entirely unfair to call me a horder now even though I just consider myself prepped.  Once I was the ammo back on the shelf and Walmart had boxes of 550rds of 22lr for $15 I bought some.  Next trip bought a couple more, and so on.  I always made sure I didn’t take the last box of anything as I didn’t want to deprive anyone else, but I had to take care of my own needs to.

[32 Magnum]

This from Firearms and Ammunition TRADE JOURNALS (we posted copies in the gun shop where I work PT):
The election of 2008 spurred a HUGE increase in firearms and ammunition sales.  The demand caught the suppliers completely by surprise and they rushed like hell to catch up with the demand.  BATFE figures show that gun sales were as high as +42% higher in early 2009 as comparable months in 2008.  Ammunition sales increased during the year to 40% higher than the previous year.  Ammo suppliers put on extra shifts and began working weekends to meet the demand - which they were not able to accomplish.  The shortage of reloading supplies was a factor of the increase in ammo production.  The war effort had nothing to do with the lack of supply of civilian ammunition - military ammo is produced in specific plants under Gov't supervision.  
Prices jumped due to high demand - middle level marketers/wholesalers were the ones reaping most of the benefit.  There was an increase of almost 100% in the price of raw copper (there were international shortages due to a mine disaster in Chile, which cut out about 15% of the worlds supply), scrap brass reached an unkown level - selling for over $2.50 per pound.  Lead and Zinc also increased on the international commodity market - reaching close to or just above $1.00 a pound.  Federal excise taxes - those placed on the manufacturers of firearms and ammo, were increased by 1%, currently 11% and 10% of "fair market value", respectively - and although paid by the manufacturers, is, of course, passed along to the consumers.  The shortage/outage of .380 ACP ammo was due to a 400% increase in demand with the huge popularity of the pocket .380 pistols and the fact that, previously .380 had/has been a seasonal product, made at the end of the 9x19mm production runs - which were extended to meet civilian demand and pushed off the retooling to .380.  
WE ALL had a hand in the increase in prices and shortage - albeit, the craze was sparked by the election of a whole tribe of gun haters, including their chief.

[Squib]

I work at a brass factory, the costs of the raw materials went up quite a bit (so says the owner), the orders were and still are backlogged for about a year (so says the owner), and people were hoarding everything they could get, even substitution stuff that wasn't normally used for their preferred loads "just to have something" (personal experience and observation).  I remember having quite a bit myself, don't most of you.  multiply that by a few thousand and it's surprising that there was anything at all.  the only thing obama HAS DONE is mess with military sales of expended ammo/brass, a decision/order he repealed BEFORE IT TOOK EFFECT because he set too many people off. 

if you're worried, say so.  don't tell bs about a conspiracy from pelosi, it was the american consumer buying it all, and at double the prices, and "scalpers" even, that drove up the costs and cut the availability.  my plant added people and is still behind, and will continue to be for quite some time.  it's not the democrats doing it, it's us shooters. 

[SHOOTALL]

copper went up both new we buy and scrap we sell .

[His lordship.]

During the shortage in early 2009 I was out in the boonies of Central Texas and stopped at the Fredericksburg Walmart, figured there might be some ammo on the shelf.  They had one brick of .22 RF Remington Thunderbolts, which I grabbed.  Before paying for it a uniformed police officer comes in looking for ammo, thought we might have a debate as to who will get the crummy Remington brand "Thunderduds", he was looking for 22-250 rifle ammo as he was a varmint hunter, whew, close call.

The local newspaper had a front page story on the severity of getting ammo for law enforcement agencies, the sheriffs dept. in the area had to contact a dealer in Dallas and buy what little pistol ammo they had to allow their officers to qualify with their duty weapons.

There were gun shops that went to Walmart and bought up their bricks of .22 RF, then jacked up the price to $32.00 and put this stuff on their shelves.  Those were some scary times. 

[P.A. Myers]

I am still well stocked from the mini-panic of '01. I am sure glad this stuff keeps. I think primers get tight because they are one component you really can not make yourself.

P.A.