Author Topic: Air Rifle vs 25# Bow (Read 3894 times)

teamnelson · « **on:** September 19, 2010, 07:11:00 PM »

Got to thinking today, and am trying to compare lethality between a 7.5gr .177 pellet traveling at 1000fps vs a 300gr field point traveling at 180fps, at 10 yds. Not certain which formula to use to compare, so I figure I'd throw this out, as well as why I ask.

A good air rifle will run $200, I got a Ruger Air Hawk Elite (scoped, 9# carry) rifle that's like a laser beam with gamo pellets. Gladly use it on small game within its range limits. However, one day the gasket, spring, scope, etc. will fail, and repair/replacement in a survival scenario would be tough. Not to mention its a heavy carry tool. However a good 25# bow set up with arrows can be had for inside the same price, with a spare string. And I'm thinking it would be equally effective for the exact same task, and a whole lot simpler to maintain over time.

What do y'all think?

Mahalo, Chaps

Silvertp · « **Reply #1 on:** September 19, 2010, 07:27:41 PM »

Good question, I think the answer has a lot to do with the type of game you intend to harvest. Also wonder why you restricted the bow to field points.

If you are shooting strictly small game, squirrels and rabbits I would give the edge to the pellet rifle. I also believe the pellet gun to be easier to become proficient with, plus you don't need to worry about loosing arrows if shooting at squirrels in trees, or birds on the wing.

If you are strictly speaking lethality, and are willing to put a razor sharp broadhead on your arrow it ability to kill larger game is undoubtedly superior to a pellet gun. The bow could cleanly take all manner of small game and game up to and including the size of deer given the skill of the user. I do believe the bow takes more practice to become proficient, but once done the bow can provide a lot of harvest potential. Not to mention the stealth associated with a near silent weapon.

Also wonder why you would limit your bow choice to a 25 lb pull? Up the power to 45 lbs or more and you greatly expand the size of game you could harvest.

Silvertp

Victor3 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 19, 2010, 08:31:13 PM »

Did you ever notice what Diana, goddess of the hunt, is doing here?

For rabbit and smaller at short range, an airgun is far superior to any bow due to its accuracy.

An arrow at reasonable velocity will almost always be more lethal than a 177 pellet due to its higher FPE, which will produce a larger/longer wound channel. It will also retain more energy at greater ranges. It's only effective if you can hit the target though.

If you're gonna buy spare bow strings and arrows, you can just as easily get spare springs, seals and enough pellets to last a lifetime. Get an older, low velocity airgun with a leather piston seal and modern replacement spring and you may never have to replace either.

teamnelson · « **Reply #3 on:** September 19, 2010, 11:55:14 PM »

I chose 25# draw and field points to level the comparison. Obviously a stronger draw with broadheads is effective on large game, and an air rifle isn't. I'm trying to see if there is a better way to do what I use a high power air rifle to do.

blind ear · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2010, 05:56:36 PM »

The bow can be used to fish with long floating arrows. Shoot them through the gills. Light flu flu arrows will work for birds and tree game and won't shoot out of the country. An arrow with a hoop on the end can be made for flying birds. A 50# bow can be used the sameas a 25#, just use lighter less refined arrows and draw shorter.

Along with the bow native hunters carry a spear or club to finish game. The arrow, spear and club are basically just sticks of appropriate size and pointed if need be.

The longer you are in the survival situation will determine the practice you get. Hopefully you won't have to practice long. eddiegjr

schoolmaster · « **Reply #5 on:** September 20, 2010, 06:41:52 PM »

It takes a lot of practice to shoot well enough to take small game consistantly with a bow. The air rifle would be the better choice while you are practicing up with the bow. A 35 lb pull bow will take deer at reasonable ranges and a 45 lb bow will shoot through an elk. A pretty good bow and arrows can be made in the field in a survival situation.

tacklebury · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2010, 02:31:24 PM »

Actually, I like an air pistol, specifically my Crosman 1377. More compact, 600fps and you can carry a lot of ammo. I just make a greenstick self bow if I need to take something bigger.

Victor3 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2010, 05:43:41 PM »

Easy to make into a rifle too. Mine doesn't get 600 FPS though...

tacklebury · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2010, 01:28:27 PM »

Excellent stock Victor3! I've never chrono'd mine, but it's rated at 600fps, but you're probably right that it's a bit under. I do find it does a little better if I remember to put 1 drop of pelgunoil in the little hole to keep the thing sealed good.

Victor3 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2010, 07:42:35 PM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on September 19, 2010, 11:55:14 PM

I'm trying to see if there is a better way to do what I use a high power air rifle to do.

You mentioned simplicty, ease of maintenance and weight, so for "better" than an air rifle in those categories, a blowgun might fit.

Not a much simpler projectile weapon available; a tube with no moving parts and almost no maintenance required. Effective darts are easier to make than true-flying arrows. Probably more quiet and lighter than a bow, and a hunk of tubing can be scrounged almost anywhere there are (or have been) people living.

I've never hunted with one, but I got pretty good on short range targets before they were outlawed in my state.

Another option might be an older daisy BB gun. I recently bought this one for under $50. 1930's vintage Model 25 that's still in good working order. I don't know if it's ever been rebuilt or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't. Shows very little use...

Most will scoff at an old BB gun for survival purposes, but look at a few advantages:

Light weight

A lot less report than most air guns

Low maintenance

Accurate and powerful enough (the one above gets ~350 fps) for birds and other small animals at close range

BBs can be reused (if you can recover them)

Many shots without reloading, and one quick action is all that's needed to chamber the next round.

Easy for kids or small ladies to use

ironglow · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2010, 08:05:02 PM »

I recently purchased a Ruger Airhawk (not elite) with scope. The hi-viz sights are so good, I use them exclusively at the ranges I use my air rifle. I have put The "Ruger" scope to good use on one of my .22s.
I don't use the air rifle near as much as I thought I would, usually still reaching for a .22, even if it is with a CB cap.
Difference between a light bow and an air rifle ? If I shoot my air rifle and lose or smash the pellet, no loss..I expected to lose or smash it anyway. Not the same with an arrow.

BTW: That "Ruger" scope which came with the air rifle has performed very well on my .22..remember, air rifle scopes are "double braced"

don heath · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2010, 03:48:57 AM »

From the last Rhodesian Junior archery champion and someone who was heavily into bow fishing at one time...buy the air rifle. A bow will knock over bigger birds with a body shot...an air rifle will take all with a head shot... a Bow is very difficult to draw stealthily enough for birds, so you almost always get a moving target. Never really bothered with hunting bunnies...

The gun that has given me more meals than any other when I have ended up walking when I was meant to be flying or driving is my Webley Hurricane air pistol (.177)- mostly doves but have taken francolin with it as well

tacklebury · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2010, 12:37:37 PM »

Yah, I have a spring air lever gun also, but cannot see the accuracy or ranged shot comparison. It works ok for the small birds, but squirrels etc. would just laugh usually or be wounded at worst. With my 1377, I have killed cleanly out to 30 yards, which is about max range in my opinion or range with the pistola. I always have a breakdown blowgun in my survival gear when I can take my larger pack also. I have gotten some chipmunks with it, but I find that I miss a lot more. One trick I use with the blowgun to make my own darts is to heat old tide bottles, milk-jugs etc, until it starts to droop then press a plumb-bob into it repeatedly. Then I take a small board with a hole the same size as my blowgun and use sissors to trim the base to that level. I can make about 100 cones in 1 hr. Then for rough practice darts, I cut off about 1/16" of the tip of the cones and use a daub of clear silicone inside the cone, then push 13C sinker nails into them. I really like the spiral bronzed nails, just cause they look cool and have sharp points.

If I am making actual hunting darts, I prefer to use excess bicycle spokes. Once the spoke is siliconed in place and it's set up for a few days, I make some pointed ones with a bench grinder for practice and then I take several and flatten the tip out with a hammer and grind a small broadhead diamond shape. It's not a lot of extra damage, but they do seem to kill quicker. If you wish to take the extra time, back grinding the underside of the broadheads with a dremel cutting wheel, will create more of a barb, which helps to do more damage on the dart getting pulled out by the animal running away. I've actually pinned several chippy's to a tree trunk with these though, and the cones are tough enough to keep them on the shaft and they just spin and go nowhere.

RON17T · « **Reply #13 on:** September 23, 2010, 03:18:07 PM »

I'd go with the airgun.Think about it ,500 pellets weighs almost nothing,how much do 500 arrows weigh? Arrows take up too much space and will get lost or broken. Most quality pellet guns last for thousands of shots so I wouldn't be worried about wearing one out.

tacklebury · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2010, 03:53:08 PM »

Yep, my first 1377 was purchased in 1983ish. First gun I bought myself. My dad still shot it until 2 years ago and we still have the frame and parts, but something gave up on her finally.

I literally got more squirrels with that than my .22's I think. lol

pastorp · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2010, 12:53:05 PM »

You guys realize, of course that self bows, arrows, and stone points can be made in the field. So archery is a renewable resource.
My choice for small game though would be a slingshot. As a kid I wanted a wham-o but couldn't afford one. So we drew one out on a piece of scrap 3/4" plywood and cut it out with a coping saw. A little sandpapper and a set of rubbers with the pouch and we were good to go. I used rocks, marbles, ball bearings, basically anything reasonably round I could find as ammo. Birds, rabbits, squirrels,snakes, frogs and a host of other targets fell to my slingshot. Back in those days you could still find red rubber inertubes from car tires but now days all the tires are mostly tubeless so surgical tubing works as well.

Just a thought, regards,

BBF · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2010, 07:16:11 PM »

I'll give you another option, see what is available on a simple crossbow. I got a Barnett Panzer sitting around that is about as simple as it gets with a fiberglass prod. The frame is metal and has a groove for a 22 type scope and rings.

WD45 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2010, 07:36:55 AM »

None of the high powered air rifles that I have owned are what I call quiet. In all reality ya may as well have a 22 I think. The bow is quiet. Disadvantage of the bow is it and the arrows may be a pain to drag around through the woods and it takes major practice to be good with it. On the other hand all components can be made by hand where ever you are

bigbird09 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:28:09 PM »

I'm gonna drag this back up and apply another opinion. If it was me i would get about a 40-45 # long bow or a recurve. and carry 5 or 6 grizzly stick arrows http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/GrizzlyStik-Shafts-C5.aspx. 3 with flu flu fletches tipped with judos for shooting at tree rats. I might carry a snaro or 2 in my pack for some chances at flying stuff. and carry 3 with broadheads for bigger game such. Then if you lose those you can always make extras while in the field. also with most longbows you can take the string down and take twist out of it to make it low poundages, and its easy to replace strings. With some consistant practice you can be just as accurate and consistent as someone with a air rifle and have more potential in what you can take.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2011, 02:57:18 PM »

Or a Chipmunk .22LR, and a few bricks of Colibri's quiet ammo?

I have been thinking of a survival bow, but would think a take-down recurve being tops for simplicity.

Hit or Miss · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2011, 04:13:07 PM »

Get...them....all!!!!

Each tool has uses that it excells at! I've been debating the air rifle thing and can't quite get over the price of a good one. I bought a used .223 Handi Rifle for less than most decent air rifles are bringing these days.

mjh · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2011, 10:42:27 AM »

Make lots of snares for small game. Once traped if not dead a quick wack with the back of your hawk will kill them. Light weight bows that are functional can be made. Heavier weight bows need a little more skill to make and make strings and arrows and such, most likley already have a .22 so not likely to buy an air rifle any time soon. If I didn't own any of the above, I'd learn to make and use snares and if It was between buying the light weight bow and the air rifle I'd go air rifle, should have a shorter lower learning curve, and you can still make other tools/ weapons in your spare time

blind ear · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2011, 12:10:28 PM »

snares and clubs get aborigionals by. ear

Victor3 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2011, 07:21:10 PM »

Quote from: bigbird09 on January 09, 2011, 04:28:09 PM

With some consistant practice you can be just as accurate and consistent as someone with a air rifle and have more potential in what you can take.

While there is potential for bigger game with with a bow, there's no way that even someone exceptional with one will be able to shoot as accurately as someone proficient with a good air rifle.

bigbird09 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2011, 07:48:52 PM »

well I guess it depends on how accurate you are talking. I don't have much experience with anything than a compound and a little experience with a recurve for bow fishing, but being about to keep 3-6 shots touching to 30 yrds is pretty accurate to me,

teamnelson · « **Reply #25 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:34:41 PM »

Sounds to me like a matter of precision, but not so much a matter of result. The more I've "researched" my original question, I've reached this conclusion. With little practice, a quality air rifle with sighted optics will put a very small pellet traveling at a high rate of speed in a very precise location, like a head shot on a squirrel, within reasonable distances, and with a fair amount of noise if my Ruger AirHawk Elite is any example.

With practice, a fella with a bow could hit the squirrel, quietly, at the same range ... probably not a head shot. The key differences appear to be noise, precision, and practice required.

Victor3 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 18, 2011, 08:01:03 PM »

Quote from: bigbird09 on January 17, 2011, 07:48:52 PM

well I guess it depends on how accurate you are talking. I don't have much experience with anything than a compound and a little experience with a recurve for bow fishing, but being about to keep 3-6 shots touching to 30 yrds is pretty accurate to me,

I don't think a very high percentage of folks could do that regularly. 1/2" offhand groups at 30 yds are typical for practiced airgun shooters though.

I'm pretty sure that (all things considered) the average person having to survive on small game would more likely live longer using a fair quality air rifle/pellets with iron sights as opposed to the best bow/arrows available.

Heck, I'd even opt for this little Benjamin pea-shooter over a bow any day...

http://www.crosman.com/blogs/croswords/?p=1297

rlm2007x · « **Reply #27 on:** January 19, 2011, 07:57:40 AM »

Air guns, archery equipment, and slingshots would all be good things to have in a survival situation. For air guns, stock plenty of ammo, spare parts such a seals and springs, lube, cleaning kits, special tools, targets, protective eye wear, and anything else that might be useful. For archery, stock several cheap fiberglass youth type bows in the 20-30 lb. range, plenty of arrows, broad heads, judo points, blunts, and field points, spare strings, stringers, targets, quivers, arm guards, finger tabs, etc. For slingshots, stock plenty of ammo, spare bands, and targets. A lot of this stuff is available at pawn shops, garage/yard sales, and junk shops for cheap. One thing is I would not stock a BB gun like a Red Ryder for this. They are not powerful enough to take game reliably with. At best you can shoot small birds or rodents with them. Save your firearms for self defense. Robert

teamnelson · « **Reply #28 on:** January 19, 2011, 10:58:48 AM »

Quote from: Westerner on January 19, 2011, 07:57:40 AM

One thing is I would not stock a BB gun like a Red Ryder for this.

Westerner, a lot of good ideas in your post, thanks! I drew this quote out just because not a few days ago I came across a guy who regularly hunts small game/birds with a Crosman 2100 BB/Pellet Gun. 755fps with the .177, and 725fps with the BB, and it holds 200 bbs. It perked my interest because as a kid I could knock birds over with an old daisy powerline using bbs. The 2100 delivers more fps and shoots pellets as well - I think that'd be a good all around game getter. Sure, the Gamos and AirHawks are much more powerful (And some folks are hunting big game with large bore PCP air guns.) but they're darn heavy. I personally don't see carrying my AirHawk in the woods.

rlm2007x · « **Reply #29 on:** January 19, 2011, 08:54:18 PM »

A pellet or BB going 600+ fps could probably take small game. BBs aren't very accurate out past a few yards. Pellets should be better able to utilize the full potential of the guns rifling being cylindrical and made of soft lead. This of course should make them more accurate. An accuracy test of BB vs. pellet out of a dual ammo gun would be interesting though. Robert