Author Topic: Price gouging  (Read 1619 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4474
    • Permission Granted - Land Owner
Price gouging
« on: September 23, 2010, 02:38:11 PM »
Went to one of this Site's Sponsors and found IMR 700X powder selling for over $110.00 per 8#'s.  Fortunately, I purchased it just prior to the "shortage" for $69.95/8#'s and thought that was "tight" at the time.  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0003497008  That a markup of almost 60%!!!

Same site, I found IMR 4227 for over $143.00 per 8 #'s and have no idea what it formerly sold for.  Probably around $85.00 per 8#'s.  At that inflated price I am going to WAIT.  That is too "tight".


Offline BCB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 03:32:00 PM »
Ahh, you had better check some other sites...

But, the prices will be close the same...

I just purchased a powder order from Powder Valley and they are probably the cheapest overall, without waiting for sale prices at other sites.  Then it is only a powder or two on sale--the Hazmat and shipping doesn't change.  Local dealers can't even begin to compete.  Twenty-three to $28 per pound is the norm...

Surplus powder used to be an option, but it is done also.  And what is left is nearly as pricey as canister grade powder...

The days of the prices you wish are long gone.  Waiting will only increase the prices.  Been at it 40+ years and the price never drops...

Pay me now, or pay me more later...

Good-luck...BCB

Offline KansasPaul

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 03:50:27 PM »
My local gun mart gets $28.95 a pound for all of his Winchester powder.  I usually wait until I am near another dealer about 40 miles away - he has a much larger selection and I can buy the same powder for about $4 a pound cheaper.  Based on the price you are paying for 8 pound containers, you are saving a bundle!

Paul

Offline wreckhog

  • Trade Count: (55)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2997
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 04:16:38 PM »
ObamaMania cleaned out all reloading components last year. Anything for sale now is fresh, as are the prices.

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 08:18:23 PM »
My local gun mart gets $28.95 a pound for all of his Winchester powder.  I usually wait until I am near another dealer about 40 miles away - he has a much larger selection and I can buy the same powder for about $4 a pound cheaper.  Based on the price you are paying for 8 pound containers, you are saving a bundle!

Paul

 I get them for 20-25 at local stores here.

Offline PowPow

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 02:42:08 AM »
Around here, Midsouth is less than the local shop on most reloading supplies, and on 8# powder and 1000 primers including hazmat.
Locally 1lb is mid-20's, up about 10% from Bush days, primer up 15%.
The difference between people who do stuff and people who don't do stuff is that the people who do stuff do stuff.

Offline wncchester

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3856
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 04:31:09 AM »
I don't get gouged because I WON'T BE GOUGED!  Shooting/reloading is a hobby, not my life, I flat refuse to pay excessive prices.

The local dealers who tried to gouge me - and did gouge those willing to accept it - are on my sheet list and I have a long memory.  I found some other shops that continued to sell things at near the same  prices when they got a shipment (and before the hoarders cleared the shelves) so they will continue to get my business even if the closer shops reduce priced to pre-panic days.
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Online Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26921
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 06:02:54 AM »
Those prices are pretty much what powder goes for these days. It's not price gouging it's just the way prices have inceased over time. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to reduce. The Midsouth price of $110 you list is pretty much what powder was selling for around here 5 years ago well before the shortage and increases in prices.

If you are thinking you'll ever pick up more at the price you mentioned paying in the past you're likely gonna run out and have to stop shooting before you find it at those levels again.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline teddy12b

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3078
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2010, 06:09:49 AM »
Those prices are pretty much what powder goes for these days. It's not price gouging it's just the way prices have inceased over time. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to reduce. The Midsouth price of $110 you list is pretty much what powder was selling for around here 5 years ago well before the shortage and increases in prices.

If you are thinking you'll ever pick up more at the price you mentioned paying in the past you're likely gonna run out and have to stop shooting before you find it at those levels again.

+1

The prices of long ago, are never coming back.  I remember back when a gallon of gas was under $1, but that's not going to happen again in my lifetime either.

Online Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26921
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 07:37:58 AM »
I have paid low to mid 20 cent range for gas. Nope those kinda prices will never return.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline mbopp

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 209
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 11:41:51 AM »
Gouging? One local chain store was charging $4.99 for 100 primers! I see they dropped to "just" $3.99 now.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." -- Patrick Henry, American Patriot

Online Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26921
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 12:09:09 PM »
Even when primers were next to impossible to get I picked up 20K at $25.50 per K plus Hazmat of course.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline BCB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2010, 12:45:00 PM »
I just received an order from Powder Valley and the prices I am going to mention include that hazmat fee and shipping.  I break it down into the number of items and divide that into the hazmat fee and that is the amount I add to each item. And the shipping I divide up by using a ratio and proportion for the weight of each item.  I think I still did O.K. even paying the hazmat and shipping…

Unique…4-pound keg…$54.00…or $14.94 per pound
Trail Boss…5-pound keg…$92.01…or $18.40 per pound
Bullseye, Pro Mag 300, and SR-4756…between $17.48 and $21.68…SR-4556 the most expensive…

Primers depending on brand…between $24.58 and $27.58 per 1000…The CCI are the most expensive…

So, to avoid the high costs, one must purchase in bulk.  Get several reloaders together and go the route…

Graybeard—I purchased gasoline in the late 60’s for 27 cents per gallon and if a mini-war was going on, it was 4 gallon for a buck!  But mostly in the low 30’s.  One did have to splurge a bit to fill those muscle cars with premium as it was always running around 39 cents per gallon and sometimes in the low 40’s…

And so it goes…BCB.

Offline mechanic

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5112
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2010, 01:22:30 PM »
Kinda' makes a fella' think about the "good old days".  I still have primers with a price tag on the end of the 1000 carton...of $7.48.  The last ones I bought were 4 times that.  But another way to look at it..I'm making at least 4 times as much as I did when those others were new...
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline BCB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 01:28:18 PM »
Kinda' makes a fella' think about the "good old days".  I still have primers with a price tag on the end of the 1000 carton...of $7.48.  The last ones I bought were 4 times that.  But another way to look at it..I'm making at least 4 times as much as I did when those others were new...

Yep, I am replacing primers with the recent purchase.  The ones I am replacing have a $8.95 price tag for 1000.  I always write the price on the inside of the brick of primers.  Many many years ago, a bunch of us went together and bought 100000 CCI primers of various types.  They are almost gone, as are a couple of those reloaders.  I think that people who reload and who are in their 5th or 6th decade of life, will be the last to have been able to take advantage of the inexpensiveness of shooting...

And so it goes...BCB

Offline necchi

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2010, 01:57:18 PM »
will be the last to have been able to take advantage of the inexpensiveness of shooting...

Not really, even at todays prices, reloading easily saves 50-60% the cost of over the counter factory ammo. Premium factory ammo is going $1.50 a round and up. The saved cost allows me to shoot more and thus become more proficiant with my shooting skills

 And more important, I can't put a price on having custom "tuned" ammo for my guns that give me sub MOA accuracy.

Point is, even at todays prices, I'll happily purchase what I need to continue loading,,and almost every time I'm in a big supply store (Cabelas) I run into new loaders that are stocking up, happy that componants are available now that the panic is over,, ;D
found elsewhere

Offline BCB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2010, 02:07:40 PM »
"Not really, even at todays prices, reloading easily saves 50-60% the cost of over the counter factory ammo. Premium factory ammo is going $1.50 a round and up. The saved cost allows me to shoot more and thus become more proficiant with my shooting skills

 And more important, I can't put a price on having custom "tuned" ammo for my guns that give me sub MOA accuracy.

Point is, even at todays prices, I'll happily purchase what I need to continue loading,,and almost every time I'm in a big supply store (Cabelas) I run into new loaders that are stocking up, happy that componants are available now that the panic is over,, ;D"



Maybe so as it is a relative situation.  But...

Today one might reload for, say, 40% of the factory ammo price...

Years ago, it probably was 10%-15% of the factory ammo price...

The reason for that was the tremendous availablity of surplus powders that later became canister grade powders.  H-4831 comes to mind. Yep, $1.25 per pound.  Get any powder for a price that is comparable by today's inflation rates and you might be correct.  Ain't gonna happen...

I loaded 50 rounds of 357 Magnum (An Alcan power if I remember correctly) using cast boolits for around 95 cents!  Yep.  Can't start my lead melting pot for that anymore...

And so it goes...BCB

Offline necchi

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2010, 04:54:47 PM »
And gone is a nickle loaf of bread, a 15 cent bucket of beer and dollar a day wages.
I keep gettin older but the "sun is the same in a relative way"  ;)

One thing I do know,,I ain't sellin my loading gear an goin back ta buyin box ammo,,, :D :D ;D

Whatta ya spose would have happened if 2/3's of the old school loading community hadn't have panic'd and gone into "hoarding" mode a few years back,,would prices have stayed the same??

Un-likley,,I don't think my son will ever pay under $2 for gas either,,whatta ya gonna do? Stop buyin gas?? I think it's refered too as "got ya by the short hairs"  :-[ :-[ :-\
found elsewhere

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2010, 06:15:22 PM »
And gone is a nickle loaf of bread, a 15 cent bucket of beer and dollar a day wages.
I keep gettin older but the "sun is the same in a relative way"  ;)

One thing I do know,,I ain't sellin my loading gear an goin back ta buyin box ammo,,, :D :D ;D

Whatta ya spose would have happened if 2/3's of the old school loading community hadn't have panic'd and gone into "hoarding" mode a few years back,,would prices have stayed the same??

Un-likley,,I don't think my son will ever pay under $2 for gas either,,whatta ya gonna do? Stop buyin gas?? I think it's refered too as "got ya by the short hairs"  :-[ :-[ :-\
 Yea,I remember when you could get an SKS for 50 bucks at a local gun store and cheaper still if you searched around. My grandmother used to tell me how a can of tuna cost a nickle. Still,i make a heck of a lot more than my grandfather did. Things may also be alot more expensive now,but much of it is relative. The computers we type on can be had for less than 500 dollars. (of course 50 years ago,we didnt have them,but then again,we had to live with whatever reloading gear,or books or whatever else was stocked by local merchants. No internet for sharing information or for buying literally ANYTHING. ) Look at what 3 or 4 hundred dollars buys you in a TV now. Compare that to the old 25" color console that was so expensive you bought one for the living room and everyone had to share. Some things are relatively cheaper,some are relatively more expensive. Actually,on the whole,its demonstrably gotten better. It is a FACT that the standard of living has gone up since the 50s not down. We have more net available cash after buying the basics,even though things are more expensive. Imagine how much 40k a year would be to someone back in 1910.

 As for reloading I got into recently. Part of the reason was that it was just hard to find a regular source of some of the calibers I needed,and then they were ridiculously expensive. Additionally I realized that I just did not have the money to shoot as much as I wanted. I put 200 or so into some Lee reloading gear. For 45ACP,the best price I could usually get,except perhaps by mail order,was about 33 cents a round. I can reload for about 2 cents for the powder,2.5 cents for the primer,and about 3-6 cents for the bullets if I cast them (depending on how well I do scrounging lead) or about 7 cents a peice if I buy bumblebee brand cast lead bullets from my local gun store. (a very good price I must say) Thats 7.5-11 cents a round to reload. If you assume that you get 10 reloads from each cartridge (you can get more than that if you load light,which also saves powder) then a bag costs 20 dollars so that's around 20 cents each so each reload costs 2 cents in cases. (cheaper if you scrounge used ones or come home with more than you left with from the range,in fact if you do,then the cases are essentially free as you will never run out.) If we assume that you will at least come home with a few extras and that some will last longer then lets say 1 cent per case. That means your paying 8.5-12 cents a round. Thats around 1/4 to 1/3 the price of loaded ammo.

 I probably will "hoard" some supplies when I decide which powders I'm going to use a lot of.So far I really have not found anything that jumps out as "really good" to load 45 with. I can use Reloader 15 for my 7.62 Russian and my 8mm Mauser,but I want to work up loads for good accuracy and try other powders to see how they work. Right now I dont know what I would want pounds of. Brass of course I'm always looking for a deal on and of course,Ill take any lead I can get my hands on.

 

Offline buck460XVR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2010, 07:02:14 AM »
My local gun mart gets $28.95 a pound for all of his Winchester powder. 

Powder only sells for that because someone is willing to pay that much for it. Kinda how our capitalistic society works. Supply/demand and the price folks are willing to pay. Add to that a little greed and a false sense/scare that something will soon be unavailable and you have our current situation with reloading components.
"where'd you get the gun....son?"

Offline DannoBoone

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2010, 07:09:14 AM »
Even at the inflated prices of components, my heart skipped a beat or two upon
finding a box of 7mm WSM's at the local Wally World over two years ago prior to
ObamaMania. $42+ for 20 rounds. I don't even need to get a pencil & paper out
to know 20 rounds can be loaded for way less than half that, even at the post
Obama paranoia prices.
We need to change our politicians
like we do dirty diapers.............
for the same reason.

Online Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26921
  • Gender: Male
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2010, 12:06:03 PM »
My local gun mart gets $28.95 a pound for all of his Winchester powder. 

Powder only sells for that because someone is willing to pay that much for it. Kinda how our capitalistic society works. Supply/demand and the price folks are willing to pay. Add to that a little greed and a false sense/scare that something will soon be unavailable and you have our current situation with reloading components.

I remember when Winchester powder was $3 a pound. I bought a bunch of it in ten pound containers at $30 a pop. Oh well like it or not all that kinda stuff is in the rear view mirror and ain't ever gonna return.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4474
    • Permission Granted - Land Owner
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2010, 01:32:22 PM »
Hey GB.  I got $30 (plus shipping) for 8#'s of Win 748, if you're selling.  hehe.

Offline securitysix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2010, 05:40:03 PM »
Went to one of this Site's Sponsors and found IMR 700X powder selling for over $110.00 per 8#'s.  Fortunately, I purchased it just prior to the "shortage" for $69.95/8#'s and thought that was "tight" at the time.  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0003497008  That a markup of almost 60%!!!

Same site, I found IMR 4227 for over $143.00 per 8 #'s and have no idea what it formerly sold for.  Probably around $85.00 per 8#'s.  At that inflated price I am going to WAIT.  That is too "tight".

Hrm....  Let's look at some basic math here:

1)  $110/8 pounds of powder = $13.75 per pound (sounds like a pretty good deal to me).
2)  $69.95/8 pounds of powder = $8.74 per pound (looks like prices my dad paid 20 years ago).
3)  $143/8 pounds of powder = $17.88 per pound (still sounds pretty reasonable to me).
4)  $85/8 pounds of powder = 10.63 per pound (again, sounds like prices my dad paid 20 years ago).

If you can find a place selling powder for $10/pound or less, I suggest you buy all they have, or at least all you can afford. 

Offline beerbelly

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2010, 07:32:43 AM »
That is some good prices. Now tack on $25.50 hazmat and $12.50 shipping and re-compute. Then you will get the actual cost.
                                 Beerbelly

Offline securitysix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2010, 08:52:58 AM »
That is some good prices. Now tack on $25.50 hazmat and $12.50 shipping and re-compute. Then you will get the actual cost.
                                 Beerbelly

OK.

1)  ($110+25.50+12.50)/8 = $18.50/pound delivered.  Still cheaper than the $20/pound I'd have to pay at a local shop.
2)  ($69.95+25.50+12.50)/8 = $13.49/pound delivered.  Still a steal.  If you can get it for that, by all means, do.
3)  ($143+25.50+12.50)/8 = $22.65/pound delivered.  About a dollar higher than I'd pay buying a pound locally after sales tax.
4)  ($85+25.50+12.50)/8 = $15.38/pound delivered.  5 years ago, I could get close to that "locally" if I drove an hour one one way for it.

Offline BCB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2010, 09:42:42 AM »
security-six...

What powders are those or did I miss the list of names...

And where are those prices from--Midsouth?...

Yep, you can get good prices on kegs, but most people don't purchase that quantity, so listing those prices can be a bit deceptive...

I did compare Powder Valley to Midsouth and a couple of others, and I ordered my powder and primers at Powder Valley...

BCB

Offline securitysix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2010, 05:30:09 PM »
security-six...

What powders are those or did I miss the list of names...

And where are those prices from--Midsouth?...

Yep, you can get good prices on kegs, but most people don't purchase that quantity, so listing those prices can be a bit deceptive...

I did compare Powder Valley to Midsouth and a couple of others, and I ordered my powder and primers at Powder Valley...

BCB

I pulled the prices from Land_Owner's post.  Numbers 1 and 2 are prices Land_Owner quoted as current and pre-shortage (respectively) prices for 700X from Midsouth (at least for the current; not sure where he sourced the pre-shortage price he posted).  Numbers 3 and 4 are for 4227, again, from Land_Owner's respective current and pre-shortage prices.

Offline BCB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2010, 12:52:44 AM »
I just compared Land_Owner's price to that of Powder Valley...

PV beats the Midsouth prices ,but not by much.  One must order large quantities to really save much...

They will ship up to 48 pounds for the one Hazmat fee.  For orders < $300, shipping is one price and for orders > $300 ,shipping is another price--a bit more, naturally...

Still ain't nothing cheap, just a bit less expensive if one shops around...

BCB

Offline HL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 404
Re: Price gouging
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2010, 02:35:44 AM »
I still have a pound of old H414, my dad gave me, marked with $1 on the lid. ;D