Author Topic: rimmed 35  (Read 4541 times)

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Offline eod20

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rimmed 35
« on: September 25, 2010, 04:46:16 PM »
has the 30-30 been necked up to 35
looking for ejectors - 308, 8mm, 35 rem, 25-20, 32-20, 357 mag, 45LC

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 05:19:04 PM »
Yup, a loooong time ago, nothing the 35 Remington can't do tho in a strong action.

Tim

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Offline eod20

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 05:27:51 PM »
thanks tim     i was just curious   and i knew if i asked here there are lots of knowledgeable people here with the answers      and that is waht i want a 35 rem
looking for ejectors - 308, 8mm, 35 rem, 25-20, 32-20, 357 mag, 45LC

Offline JeffDavis

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2010, 05:29:01 PM »
I have seen a Contender/Encore barrel for sale on another site that is chambered for a 35 Rimmed. It is a 303 Brit necked up to a 35 cal.
Tim, how do you think that would fly out of a 357 Handi?
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Offline embalmer883

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 05:39:50 PM »
Check out my post a couple down. It will tell you where to get an elusive 35 rem.

Offline trotterlg

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2010, 06:32:37 PM »
357 Herrett?  I have a reamer.  Larry
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Offline NFG

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 06:55:51 PM »
The 35/303 is a popular conversion for SMLE rifles down under in the land of the strange beasties.  Simple barrel change or rebore depending on the barrel contour.

How much for the T/C barrel and does it come with dies?  It would be a good one for anyone with an Encore frame, but without dies the value is reduced.

There is an Epps version which is a blown out version similar to an AI.

The 30 Leverpower is based on the 30-40 Krag case and taken out to 35 cal would be very similar to the 35/303.  And there are several other rimmed cases in this catagory.

It boils down to whether you like rimmed or rimmless cases, but it is very hard to beat the 35 Rem or the 358/356 Win for a medium size case or the 35 Whelen (or 35-284) for the larger capacity cases and 3 our of the 5 have factory available ammo and 3 are an easy rechamber in the 357 Handi ;D ;D and not have to go messing around forming cases.


Lots of ways to skin THIS cat also...for those that like 35 cal.  ;D 8)

Luck


Offline quickdtoo

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 07:26:26 PM »
I have seen a Contender/Encore barrel for sale on another site that is chambered for a 35 Rimmed. It is a 303 Brit necked up to a 35 cal.
Tim, how do you think that would fly out of a 357 Handi?

NFG pretty much answered that, it would work fine, just depends on how much you want to spend on dies, the 356Win would be the way to go for an inexpensive rimmed option, both dies and brass are available and reasonable, a 357mag would be a good donor barrel.  ;)

Tim
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 07:52:34 PM »
I have seen a cartridge in "Cartridges Of The World" where someone had necked up the 30-30 to .35 cal.  It worked good but was a Wildcat, and like all wildcats it requires special dies and handloading only to feed it.

Like Tim said the .35 Remington will do a better job since it has stronger brass.  .35 is a good caliber bullet and I really like it for Bears.  Two of my favorite cartridges are the .35 Whelen and .350 Rem Mag.
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Offline D Humbarger

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 02:28:05 AM »
358 JDJ.  Uses modern high pressure 444 brass & all the power you need
Try to look unimportant.   Your enemy might be low on ammo.

Only Handi so far is a 375 JDJ.

Offline Darreld Walton

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2010, 04:30:40 AM »
.356 Winchester.  Rim diameter is same as a .30-30, but the case is .308 Winchester.  It will take any pressure that's acceptable for the basic case, and that includes some fairly good performers, like the .243 and .308. 
In a single shot there is no reason that the performance couldn't duplicate the .358 Winchester.
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Offline eskimo36

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2010, 05:47:11 AM »
I have a 357 Herrett in the Handi that Larry did for me.  It is quite a handful in its 16.5" barrel.   It has all the right attributes for a single shot... rimmed cartridge and loves lead bullets.
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Offline NFG

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2010, 08:12:45 AM »
I don't want to start a hoohaa, but, one other thing good about going with the 356 Win chamber...you can shoot 358 Win and 356 Win interchangeably, mixed in the magazine(but not the other way around!!!).  I do/done it in my 356 W Marlin levergun.  Plus the fact you will NEVER run out of brass as long as the 308 and siblings are alive or ANY .470 base size cartridge of the same length or longer..

The 358 JDJ is another very good one that's been around since the inception of the 444M case.

Some approximate case capacities to consider.

357 Max     34 gr H2O
35-30/30    46
35 Rem       51
358/356      56
358 JDJ        71
35-284       67
35 Whelen   70
35 Whelen AI   75
350 Rem Mag 72
35-06 Rimmed  69

Plus there are just a whole bunch of other medium sized cases that could be used and there are the larger cases that go from 80 on up to 150 gr H2O.

That's the beauty of wildcatting....CHOICE.

As you can see...it's a horse race between some of them and hair splitting in others, but at Handi pressures it gets REAL nit-picky.

Plus there are many other considerations to think about when you get the wildcat urge, like die and brass cost and availability, REAL need and usability and performance with a specific barrel length vs "wannabe" or "magnumitis", and of course, BRAGGING RIGHTS. ;D ;D

But I don't think you can beat the 35 Rem, 356/358 Win or 35 Whelen for economy of all the various factors and usefulness.

Luck

Offline gunther66

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2010, 08:26:37 AM »
What is the parent case for the 35-06 rimmed? G66
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2010, 10:01:42 AM »
Far as I see all the xx-06 cartridges are based on the original .30-06 case and just necked differently.  8)  The .35-06 is commercially available as the .35 Whelen.  8)
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also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline gunther66

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2010, 02:38:36 PM »
Does this mean the entry above that lists a 35-06 rimmed is a missprint?
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2010, 02:42:44 PM »
Not necessarily, the .35-06 was the wildcat version prior to commercialization.  I think they may have been staying on the safe side?  Maybe NFG can state where the difference is.  8)
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also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline NFG

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2010, 03:23:22 PM »
Parent case for the 35-06 rimmed and/or the 35 Winchester is the 405 Winchester case...Rim diameter is 0.543", and NO...it isn't a missprint.  Cases are available at Buffalo Arms for both the 35 Rimmed/Winchester and 405 Win.

The "35-06" was instigated/originated by Col Townsen Whelen way back in the 20's and all the pieces and parts to make the rifle were made by James Howe of Griffin and Howe fame and the name 35 Whelen stuck.  There is also a 400 Whelen and AI version that was well liked by Elmer Keith of 357, 41 and 44 Magnum fame.  Elmer was the original "Magnumitis Man". ;D

The 405 Win is among the "other" cases that I mentioned that can and have been wildcatted up and down.  The European 7x75 Rimmed, almost 3" long, would be a very good one for those wanting a larger capacity rimmed case at about 80 gr H2O, but that is going a bit far afield as the 405 Win has an equal capacity, there is already a 35-348 and AI(AKA 35 Alaskan as in 45 and 50 Alaskan) and the 45-70 and 90 are much easier and cheaper to get and have already been "strangled" to 35 cal WAY back.

AS an aside...the '06 case has gone from 14 cal to slightly over 0.400.  The AI'ed version with a 30-45° shoulder using .405 to .411" bullet diam is right at the edge of workability.  There are a few using 270-280 cases...and the 411 Hawk seems to work out OK.

All the hard work has been done already and what is left today are those cartridges with the "right stuff" in their jeans or genes...as you wish.

For those that can keep their heads screwed on right where the Handi frames pressure is concerned there is also the 35 Shooting Times Alaskan, but it really NEEDS a 26" bbl and there are rimmed cases of similar size and LARGER if you that isn't enought case capacity to feed your demon.

This is going from the sublime to the ridiculous and totally OT...Out THERE.  ;D  Hahahahahaha

Luck

Offline tacklebury

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2010, 03:40:30 PM »
Ah, I didn't realize there were (2) .35-06's.  Good info.  8)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline NFG

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2010, 04:12:42 PM »
Actually there is only one '06 based original 35 cal and the rest are iterations on the theme and there is a bushel basket full of those joys.

The rimmed case is NOT 30'06 based just similar in dimensions in some ways and called "the 35-06"...the 30-06 was always rimmless...the 35-06 RIMMED is based on the 405 Win rimmed case and given the moniker of 35-06 RIMMED and the 35 Winchester is a completely different cartridge but very close to the same dimensions and based on the same 405 Win case but with a different name.

These names can get you in a lot of trouble...definitely not like the naming conventions in scientific naming of critters.

Like 358 Win instead of 35-08...260 Win instead of 6.5-08...why not 264-08 or 263-08...and how about 7mm Express/280 Rem...no rhyme or reason exept to the Ad boys...and 30-30, 30 cal and 30 gr of black powder originally and 300 and 303 Savage ferkrisake...!!!! >:( ;D ;D  

Hahahahahaha   Go figure.

Luck

Offline mannyrock

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2010, 06:05:01 AM »
   

Regarding the 7mm Express vs. .280 Remington name issue.

The original name of the round was the .280 Remington.  During the 7mm craze, Remington decided to breath new life into the cartridge, and rifle sales, by re-naming it the 7mm Express.  For several years, Remington sold its Model 700s marked for the 7mm Express round.

But of course, incredibly stupid people with these rifles got confused and bought 7mm Mag ammo for them.  Unfortunitely, the Mag rounds did chamber in the rifles, and blew up!  The injured dummies sued Remington, saying that Remington was negligent by creating  two different 7mm rounds with deceptively similar names, that would confuse an ordinary consumer and cause forseeable injuries.

After defending and losing a few of these cases in front of juries, Remington gave up, and re-renamed the round back to the .280 Remington, and marked all new rifles as .280 Remington.  All new ammo was also marked .280 Remington.

Nuff said.

Offline NFG

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2010, 09:12:04 AM »
I think you need to check your facts a little closer there Manny...a 7mm Rem Mag will NOT chamber in a 280 chamber in any manor, shape or form...the 7mm RM shoulder is larger than the base size of the 280...it can't even begin to go into the hole.

I think it if there was a possible lawsuit in the making it was more about the similar naming convention and the fact that Rem didn't want to be the "Deep Pockets" in any lawsuit...any you're right, people did get confused and the name reverted back to 280 Rem.  A rose by any other name....eh.  What I remember is the confusion, the sales even worse over the confusion and Rem just going back to the old name. 

The story of the 270 vs 280 brouhaha is fairly well known tho', I think...at least to the ones with the walking canes and thick glasses... :D ;D ;D  hahahahahahaha. :(

There is a question in my mind as to the 280 going into a 7mmRM chambe...which it will...but as to whether it would fire or not...???...if it did then there would be alot of escaping gas that could destroy or damage the rifle and/or at least possibly hurt the shooter...

I don't have any 270 or 280 brass, but I do have some 35 Whelen which I necked down in a 7mm-08 die to position the neck base at the same position, 2.199" and tried to fire it in my 7mmRM.  The primer would indent well off center but it wouldn't fire by holding the rifle pointed up...nothing to hold the case from moving.  Maybe a loaded rounds weight would do it...??

I don't advocate anyone actually trying to fire a 280 round in a 7mmRM chamber, but I would be very interested in actual verifiable information of any occurances or at least the Lawsuit number.

I don't remember any Lawsuits over blown-up guns, but that doesn't mean much...I can't remember what I had for breakfast sometimes...(at lunch)  :( :o ;D  Hahahahabummer.

Luck

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2010, 10:16:42 AM »
Quote
Regarding the 7mm Express vs. .280 Remington name issue.

But of course, incredibly stupid people with these rifles got confused and bought 7mm Mag ammo for them.  Unfortunitely, the Mag rounds did chamber in the rifles, and blew up!  The injured dummies sued Remington, saying that Remington was negligent by creating  two different 7mm rounds with deceptively similar names, that would confuse an ordinary consumer and cause forseeable injuries.


  Where do people come up with "out of this world" stories like this?   :o

  DM

Offline Slufoot

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2010, 11:02:17 AM »
The 358 JDJ is another very good one that's been around since the inception of the 444M case.

Some approximate case capacities to consider.

357 Max     34 gr H2O
35-30/30    46
35 Rem       51
358/356      56
358 JDJ        71
35-284       67
35 Whelen   70
35 Whelen AI   75
350 Rem Mag 72
35-06 Rimmed  69



Hello NFG thanks for this great info, are you sure about the case capacity of the 358 JDJ?
It should fall between the 358 Win. and the 35 Whelen, may have just fat fingered as I would think it should be closer to 61 instead of 71?

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2010, 04:31:58 AM »
.357 Herrett!
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Offline NFG

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2010, 08:38:02 AM »
As I said..."these are ROUGH estimates".  They could be high or low depending on if the data is calculated or actual water weighed.  Every brand has a different wall thicknesses and inside dimensions and therefore different CC's.

I looked at that one also several times also...the 444M case is 0.225" shorter than the 30-06 case so how can it have almost the same CC as the '06??  But, in fact you can use it in place of an '06 case or vis versa just as you can with the 356/358 win case.  I checked that data against 3 other data bases I have, including all the necked down versions and the CC was "ROUGHLY" 64 to 68 gr H20...Load from a Disk was just a bit optimistic in this case or calculated probably.

This information was just to be used as a rough estimate of a few of the different 35 cal wildcats that could be chambered in the NEF, not something cast in stone.  There are WAY to many variables involved to take one number as gospel.

The only way to be sure of the case capacity is to H20 weigh the actual fired in the chamber you will use WITH the brand of brass you will use...THEN you will know to a certainty just what the CC is in THAT rig.

As I continually say...DON'T BELIEVE A WORD YOU READ ON THE INTERNET WITHOUT CHECKING THE SOURCE AND THE VERACITY OF THE INFORMATION.  I don't know where some of this stuff comes from for certain either, but I do understand the why's and wherefore's of the actions.  We all do it at times...hear a good story, embellish it a bit, then pass it on.  Hunters and fishermen are well known for "the one that got away" stories.... ;D :o 8)  Hahahahahahaha.  Hey...ask me how I know. ;D ;D :o

Yeah, yeah, yeah...been there done that... when the 357 Maximum first came out it was considered the best thing since sliced bread  ;D :o...but that's all it is, a magnumized Magnum and it played hob with the backstraps on the wheel guns.  >:( :(  It did well on the steels but wasn't a 100% caliber all the time.  Every DW 357 Max I've picked up at gun shows has this cutting, some worse than others and they want your arm and leg AND first born as payment.

The 357 Herrett is 10 gr H2O larger thanh the 357 Max and works very well in the T/C Contender, I never had one...jumped over that one to the 35 Rem, but knew several who had one and shot many a round helping to work up loads.  It's another "tweener"...right in between the 357 Max and the 35 Rem, but nothing wrong at all with it...it will put down a deer or antelope with authority as long as you are fairly close.

Both the 357 Max and the 357 Herrett are very easy, simple and quick conversions for the Handi...but the 35 Rem or 356/358 W are just about optimum, I think FWIW, all things considered, for woods game and the 35 Whelen for the larger game, unless you can handle the recoil of the larger calibers...

Come to think of it, just about all the conversions are simple, quick and easy.  I should have included ALL the different conversions CC's in the list, looks like.

Please no hoohaa's...it's just my considered opinion, nothing more...I like the larger calibers and heavier bullets.  After a half cenury of shooting the biggies seem to put things down quicker, with less meat loss and a much bigger "fluid removal orifice".  I keep anything below 338 cal for sage rats... ::)

Pick what YOU want and enjoy it...doesn't matter what others think.

What I wish is Handi had a 9.3 or actual .375 cal barrel...THEN you coud get some really GOOD wildcats and standards going.  My 9.3x62 with 320 Woodleighs or 375 H&H with 300 gr anythings will stop a charging sage rat in it's tracks and flip it on it's back....hahahahahahah

Luck

Offline gcrank1

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2010, 04:11:12 PM »
I was just playing with the .577 Snider today and at open sight ranges for whitetail here (most under 50yd.) I think its about right with the 455gr. Minie. That big hole will let out a lot of wind & vital fluids quick.
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Offline NFG

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2010, 05:05:57 PM »
What do you launch that behemouth in??  Do it right and it will gut and rib that poor little beasty all at the same time.  Toss some salt in the case and it will be ready for BBQ'ing when you get to it...Hahahahaha  It would definitely do a "venison ventilation" job.  :o ::)  Shoot...you could just sling shot one and do the job. ;D

What kind of velocity do you expect?

Where do you get your brass, bullets etc?

That's one I've never even seen, much less played with.  Interesting cartridge to contemplate.  Wonder how it would work in a Handi?

The 9.3 and 375 aren't for deer...I built the 458 American for these deer and Elk...just some left over bullet test work that got lost in the shuffle.

Keep the data coming on the Snider...

Luck

Offline gcrank1

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2010, 06:02:41 PM »
So as not to jack the thread I will just respond (and end) that its an original 1870 MkIII Snider, British Cavalry Carbine, velo est about 1100fps.
I do think it would be doable on a Handi, but I have this one so I wont do it.
PM me if interested in more......
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Offline D Humbarger

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Re: rimmed 35
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2010, 10:13:34 AM »
Just for comparison.

Left to right:
35 REM  358 WIN  35 JDJ  35 Whelen  9.3x57  375 JDJ  95.x57 MS.
Look close at the 375 JDJ & the 9.5x57 MS.  In Europe the 375 JDJ  
would be called the 9.5x57R / Rimmed  (dimensions are the same).

Try to look unimportant.   Your enemy might be low on ammo.

Only Handi so far is a 375 JDJ.