Author Topic: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70  (Read 4618 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« on: September 25, 2010, 07:59:06 PM »
No,this isn't wishful thinking. Well,actually ,it sort of is,becuase I wish this were mine. I saw this at the gun show today and its about the coolest thing Ive ever seen. Ruger needs to offer this. It holds 5 shots and supposedly an identical cylinder was blown up to determine how heavy of a load it could take. The pics are large,but your going to want to see all the detail!  ;D Just right click and select "view image". You  KNOW you want to!




 

  

Offline BlkHawk73

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1501
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 08:58:53 AM »
Pass.  If I want a .45-70 I'll grab a rifle.  Just don't get the allure of such a creation other than it's some persons attempt at boosting their ego or Ooohhh factor - those that want the attention.   Gotta believe the cartridge looses too much to make it really worthwhile especially compared to common, readily available revolver chamberings.  
  I'd also be a bit leary of the reconstruction done to lengthened the cylinder frame.  The strength of the Ruger's comes from it's cast production so cutting and attatching a piece would not be of security for me.  
  Also it's sad to see a MR-3DB wasted on such a creation.
"Never Surrender, Just Carry On."  - G.S.

Offline Keith L

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 10:07:37 AM »
It is perfect for concealed carry. 
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline tacklebury

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3633
  • Gender: Male
  • Central Michigan
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 10:11:10 AM »
I actually looked very briefly at a BFR in .45-70 and the thing was so ackward and heavy, even without bullets, I think you are definitely better off with a carbine.  I'll stick to my .45 Colt.  8)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline oldandslow

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3962
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 11:33:59 AM »
And I thought the Judge was ugly.  ;D  Truthfully this isn't as bad as the Judge but is still pretty bad.

Offline shaner

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (66)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2057
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 01:16:35 PM »
looks cool id like to set a cylinder off in one just for the experience of it

Offline hillbill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 01:30:11 PM »
seems like someone, maybe century arms? made one of these in the 80's. i remember reading about it in some obscure gun magazine. i remember it weighed 7+ lbs. a burly type buddy of mine had one i think, it was right up his alley.prob be a real hoot loaded with some trail boss. i can see yur buddys flinching and turning their head as they pull the trigger and then it goes ploooooft and kiks out the 400 grn bullet about as fast as a daisy red ryder ejects a bb. lol god i kill me!

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 01:31:22 PM »
And I thought the Judge was ugly.  ;D  Truthfully this isn't as bad as the Judge but is still pretty bad.

 I think it looks good. The longer cylinder looks right with the barrel. Blackhawks with the 10" barrels look comically long with the normal cylinder length.

Offline hillbill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 01:32:58 PM »
btw. what was the gun in the pic under the revolver? looks like a win lever shotgun?

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 02:19:56 PM »
btw. what was the gun in the pic under the revolver? looks like a win lever shotgun?

Good call. I think that's what it was.

Offline Blackhawk44

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 981
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2010, 07:59:25 PM »
The scortching demand for .45-70 single actions is what is keeping all the guys at BFR riding in new Porches...NOT!

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2010, 08:04:41 PM »
The scortching demand for .45-70 single actions is what is keeping all the guys at BFR riding in new Porches...NOT!

 With that attitude,there would be two kinds of personal defense handguns in the store,Glocks and 1911s. I applaud companies that produce something different. I am actually saving up for a BFR in 45-70,or maybe 450 marlin..... To many guns,not enough money. I did realize what the answer to the question in another thread as to why I dont own a 30-06 is. 30-06 is a great round,but its just kinda common and boring. (I probobally WILL get a Garand some time but that's a different story)

 I just read the webpage. It can be fitted with different cylinders so you can have BOTH 45/70 and 450 marlin. I'm defiantly saving my pennies now.

Offline Ken ONeill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 02:16:58 AM »
BFR was doing so well  ??? that the parent, Magnum Research was sold to Kahr a few months ago  :o.

Of course, Kahr also bought Auto Ordnance sometime back.

It's good to see that some of that panhandled '70's "Moonie" money has gone to support the firearms industry  ;D ;D! If they know it, it is probably driving some of those flower selling panhandling '70's love and flower children holdovers in San Francisco NUTS  ;D !

Offline Axehandle

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2010, 09:16:45 AM »
Holding 444M, 450M, and 45 Colt/410 BFRs here myself.... I like them.  ;D   A 500 and 460 S&W BFR are on my short list...   Looked at one of the Karh 45 autos last week.  How do they get it so small!  :o

Those Moonie's have to eat!

Offline BlkHawk73

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1501
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 12:24:09 PM »
The scortching demand for .45-70 single actions is what is keeping all the guys at BFR riding in new Porches...NOT!

 With that attitude,there would be two kinds of personal defense handguns in the store,Glocks and 1911s. I applaud companies that produce something different. I am actually saving up for a BFR in 45-70,or maybe 450 marlin..... To many guns,not enough money. I did realize what the answer to the question in another thread as to why I dont own a 30-06 is. 30-06 is a great round,but its just kinda common and boring. (I probobally WILL get a Garand some time but that's a different story)

 I just read the webpage. It can be fitted with different cylinders so you can have BOTH 45/70 and 450 marlin. I'm defiantly saving my pennies now.

  There's a difference in going with something different because it is too common (.30-06) and going with a gimmick such as this revolver in question.    There's just cases where a chambering in a certain platform just doesn't make sense in a real world, practical situation.   This is one of those cases.  Is the cartridge able to achieve it's potential in such a platform (short bbl) ?  Still see it as gimmicky and aimed at those with the desire for bragging rights and the "I've got the biggest" desire.  :-\ Perhaps for those that have to compensate for other shortcomings. ;)
"Never Surrender, Just Carry On."  - G.S.

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2010, 05:05:54 PM »
The scortching demand for .45-70 single actions is what is keeping all the guys at BFR riding in new Porches...NOT!

 With that attitude,there would be two kinds of personal defense handguns in the store,Glocks and 1911s. I applaud companies that produce something different. I am actually saving up for a BFR in 45-70,or maybe 450 marlin..... To many guns,not enough money. I did realize what the answer to the question in another thread as to why I dont own a 30-06 is. 30-06 is a great round,but its just kinda common and boring. (I probobally WILL get a Garand some time but that's a different story)

 I just read the webpage. It can be fitted with different cylinders so you can have BOTH 45/70 and 450 marlin. I'm defiantly saving my pennies now.

  There's a difference in going with something different because it is too common (.30-06) and going with a gimmick such as this revolver in question.    There's just cases where a chambering in a certain platform just doesn't make sense in a real world, practical situation.   This is one of those cases.  Is the cartridge able to achieve it's potential in such a platform (short bbl) ?  Still see it as gimmicky and aimed at those with the desire for bragging rights and the "I've got the biggest" desire.  :-\ Perhaps for those that have to compensate for other shortcomings. ;)

 Ill be the first the admit that their website is a marketing tool for them,so certainly you have to take that into account when reading anything on it,however,they (Magnum Research) claim similar or better numbers to the 454 with the 45-70 at lower pressures and less recoil,and they claim some very impressive numbers for the 450 marlin. It seems to me that even if your getting the same numbers and the same recoil with 45-70 as you are with 454 all other things being equal,I would take the 45-70. Especially considering you can have a 450 marlin cylinder that they claim gets you around 2500ft/lbs of energy at around 1800fps ,that compares favorably with the 500S&W. They claim the 45-70 will net you with factory ammo, around 1500fps and around 1500ft/lbs. I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Yes,you can get MUCH more power from a 45-70 in a sturdy rifle,but you can get a lot more from a 500S&W too and I dont see anyone who says the 500S&W is pointless in a revolver becuase you cant ever tap its full capacity in that platform.

 Its possible that all that could be lies,and if so, point me to some tests that show it. Im not saying I dont believe they might lie,they just might,marketing people get paid to do just that. Its just the numbers for a 300gr .45 bullet look reasonable to me and if someone who by their own admission is negatively predisposed to the gun,on the internet no less,tells me that everything on MRs website is all lies,Id like to see some tests showing me and I will readily believe it and join you in denouncing the BFR as a gimmick gun that's inferior in weight and power to a SBH in 44 magnum. (yes its true the 44magnum can reach those levels,with the buffalo bore ammo,but thats loaded above saami specs and MR specifically listed factory ammos that were all to saami specs.)

 One thing I dont understand is how you can say that the 45-70 cant ever "reach its potential" in a 10" barrel,yet other revolver cartridges can. Perhaps factory loads might be geared toward longer barrels,but I fail to see how you could not select optimal powders to take advantage of the capacity of the 45-70,as well as load to the higher pressures the gun can take. (If I'm not mistaken,those were the "classic" pressures,not the pressures that you can load newer rifles ,and the BFR too) to get some very nice performance from it. After all,look at the kinds of velocities the 450 marlin is getting (assuming they are telling the truth and didn't cook the numbers.)

If I take you at your word,and your point DOES sound reasonable,I think its safe to assume that THOSE numbers are NOT getting the fully potential of the cartridges. Those cartridges loads WERE optimized for rifles. Pistol optimized loads should get EVEN BETTER performance. Sounds great to me. I may be wrong though. Im not a fan boy. I think the guns are cool,and I might buy one anyway,but I will be the first to admit that it does not live up to its claims if you show me how Im wrong. (For instance,I really want a Circuit Judge. I expect it to suck for any practical purposes,but it looks fun. If I ever get one,Ill be the first to admit that for any real application Ill reach right past the CJ and grab the SBH, or my 1911,depending on what I need it for)

Offline Flash

  • Trade Count: (82)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2010, 03:43:51 AM »
I've used a T/C Super 16 in 45/70 but handloaded it to my own desires so, I can definately appreciate that caliber in a revolver. I'd want Hogue's on mine, that's for sure. It looks ideal for Boar hunting.
What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger!

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18285
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2010, 02:00:39 AM »
heres my take on it for what its worth. I use cast bullets and just have never seen any advantage to pushing a cast bullet over 1300 fps. A 6 shot ruger 45 colt will push 300s to that speed so even my 454 is never loaded to what it is capable of. I cant see hauling around a sixgun that big when a ruger will do the same thing at half the size and weight. If i want more power then what a 45 cal bullet at those speeds will give me i step up to a bigger caliber like the 475 or one of the 500s and push a heavier bullet with a bigger metplat at those same speeds. If i am going to haul around a 5 to 6 lb gun its going to be a rifle. I can get a rifle slung over my back into action alot quicker then a 5 lb 10inch barreled sixgun in a shoulder holster. Im not a big fan of them but if a guy is on a buget and wants more power then a 45 colt or 44 mag offers a bfr in 475 would be a much better choise.
blue lives matter

Offline gcrank1

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7644
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2010, 07:37:12 AM »
I can understand the point of every response here.
Aint it great to be an American! This has got to be the 'Golden Age' of handguns!
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline MePlat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2010, 10:01:05 AM »
It is funny how everyone measures someone elses corn in their half bushel.
Some think a gun like this is over board but at the same time will own a 475 Linebaugh or a 500 Linebaugh or a 460 or 500 S&W and never hunt anything larger than maybe a deer or a black bear or they will tour around in their big gas gussling pick-up to haul the wife and groceries in or they will carry a tactical folder that has a 51/2 or 6 inch blade like I do or buy the biggest tv they can get to watch the news on or anything else one can name and then think a gun like this is crazy. 
I have a BFR in 45/70 and like it.  I also have handguns that are alot more powerful too.
I pay my money.  I like my toys (as to me that is what they are) and really don't give a whoop te doo what others think.
Remember this when you get in your big pick up to go to the grocery store, watch your big tv to see the news,  get out your pocket sword, etc...
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18285
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2010, 02:21:07 PM »
good point. If everyone liked the same thing it would be an awful boring world.
blue lives matter

Offline MePlat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2010, 07:06:59 AM »
Just got back from the range and chronoed my BFR 45/70 8 incher with a 520 gr cast at 1450 fps
The load is in the Lyman 49th book and is more than safe since Magnum research chambers the same gun in 450 Marlin
I guess the load isn't efficient though. :D :D :D
I can live with it though.
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2010, 03:36:19 PM »
Just got back from the range and chronoed my BFR 45/70 8 incher with a 520 gr cast at 1450 fps
The load is in the Lyman 49th book and is more than safe since Magnum research chambers the same gun in 450 Marlin
I guess the load isn't efficient though. :D :D :D
I can live with it though.

 I stand... confirmed. The factory loads they tested out of their guns were much lower velocities than that,even with lighter bullets. It sounds like the performance you can get out of it and whether or not it can live up to its potential just depends on how you load it. Thats over 2400ft lbs which seems like quite a punch. I would very much like those who said how the cartridge cant really live up to its potential in a handgun to come back and explain what they would like a handgun cartridge to be like? This is up there with the 500S&W loads. (yes they are more powerful,but not that much more) What powder are you using? I wonder how something like H110 would work? Thats what a lot of the 500S&W loads use. Of course,the practical problem with that is that there is no load data for that.

 Edit: That got me sort of curious,so I did some looking. Comparing to the 50 to get an apple to apple comparison I dont think is valid,so I compared it to the 460S&W. Nosler recommends about 45 grains of 4227 behind a 300gr bullet for the 45-70. These appear to be the trapdoor loads which are much lighter than the lever action loads you can run in the BFR although Nolser isn't clear on this. Hodgedon recommends about 40 grains of 4227 for the 460S&W. The fact is though,the BFR can be loaded much hotter than that with the lever action loadings. The trapdoor loadings have up to about 28,000CUP and the lever action loadings have up to about 40,000. I dont see how this could not end up packing more punch.

Offline MePlat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2010, 05:17:02 PM »
Well as you have found out many talk through their hats.   Lyman lists the 500 S&W with a 500 Gr Hornady at 1450 with a 31 gr charge of H110 at 49,400 psi from a 10 inch pressure barrel.  My 83/8's S&W will get around 1310-1320 with the same load.
My load for the 45/70 BFR according to Lyman with a 457125 which actually comes out at 510 gr has less than 36,700 CUP.
Now the 500 S&W is rated to 55,000 CUP or the low 60's in PSI if I remember correctly.
The 45/70 with the heavy weights will equal or exceed the 500 S&W with a lower chamber pressure than the 500 S&W
I have a 550 gr mold and am going to try the 45/70 BFR with them soon.
I see no reason why one cannot achieve 1300 with that bullet at a charge weight that more than safe since the same gun is chambered in 450 Marlin that has a SAMMI spec or around 43000 psi average psi.  I should be below that with a load like that

I am using H322.
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline mrussel

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2010, 06:40:54 PM »
Well as you have found out many talk through their hats.   Lyman lists the 500 S&W with a 500 Gr Hornady at 1450 with a 31 gr charge of H110 at 49,400 psi from a 10 inch pressure barrel.  My 83/8's S&W will get around 1310-1320 with the same load.
My load for the 45/70 BFR according to Lyman with a 457125 which actually comes out at 510 gr has less than 36,700 CUP.
Now the 500 S&W is rated to 55,000 CUP or the low 60's in PSI if I remember correctly.
The 45/70 with the heavy weights will equal or exceed the 500 S&W with a lower chamber pressure than the 500 S&W
I have a 550 gr mold and am going to try the 45/70 BFR with them soon.
I see no reason why one cannot achieve 1300 with that bullet at a charge weight that more than safe since the same gun is chambered in 450 Marlin that has a SAMMI spec or around 43000 psi average psi.  I should be below that with a load like that

I am using H322.

 Sometimes I wonder whether people just get jealous when they realize there might be something out there bigger than their favorite BFG

Offline gcrank1

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7644
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2010, 04:57:04 AM »
And FWIW, the size of my gun never has had to 'compensate' for anything..............
American and Proud of it.
Bein' a little Redneck is OK too.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2010, 05:38:28 AM »
Setting aside the questions about 45-70 performance out of a revolver, I think these look great.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline hillbill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2010, 05:41:01 PM »
heck id buy one of them but seriously dont think i could keep my 14 yr old son from burning up every bit of powder and lead that i own.

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2010, 06:26:00 PM »
let him burn it up!
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline MePlat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
Re: Ruger Blackhawk in 45-70
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2010, 03:11:47 PM »
Photo Of Group

 BFR 45/70,   5 Shots,  50 yards benched iron sights,  550 gr cast FP GC, 1260 fps ave

You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue