Author Topic: Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets  (Read 2163 times)

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Offline John C

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Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets
« on: December 06, 2003, 11:16:51 PM »
I was looking through the Lyman Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual and saw references to Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets as projectiles.  I am interested in experimenting with conical bullets in my Ruger Old Army or .36 cal Remington.  

Does anyone have any experience with these or other conicals?  Where can I get some?  What's a good price?  Is there an accuracy improvement, or does accuracy fall off?

I know that LEE makes a mold for .452 conicals, but as of now I don't cast bullets.

It seems to me that there is a potential for greater accuracy, except for the difficulty in aligning the conical in the cylinder.  Also, the pistol would have a lot more punch with a 190-210 grain bullet versus a 146 grain ball.

Thanks in advance.

-John

Offline spitpatch

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Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2003, 11:52:59 AM »
Hey John, check out the post Old Army Deer.......Very interesting
Quality will be remembered long after price is forgotten

Offline Super Rat

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Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2003, 02:08:39 PM »
I've always heard that the conicals are less accurate. If this is true, and how much less accurate, I don't really know.

With a Remington or Ruger you should indeed be able to get a very powerful load with a slug, especially with 777. With the Colts, I think the smaller chambers, and less powder capacity would kind of negate any real power gain.

I've been planning to get a box of those for my Remington .36, just for the heck of it, and to see for myself. If you try it before me, be sure to post your results.
Brown Bess .75 calibre carbine, .62 calibre Jaeger, .58 Calibre slug gun.

Offline 444encore

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Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2003, 08:37:25 AM »
Superrat is correct about the power loss. the greater length of the conicals reduces powder capacity so initially it will be going slower. However, improved aerodynamics will increase velocity at range since this bullet will probably never exceed the speed of sound. It is possible for it to be a minutely flatter tragectery.
   As far as accuracy, if you can find conicals with a concave base and manage to load them true the bullet will seat better in the rifling grooves and increase pressures while reducing gas cutting. Just be sure to have your barrel wedge seated for minimum cylinder to forcing cone gap without interferance.
More one shot kills

Offline Chris

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Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2003, 07:29:57 PM »
John:

I've shot Buffalo pistol bullets in my ROA a number of times in the past.  They're a little cumbersome to load...but from my perspective, they're more of a novelty.  They're fun to dink-around with but I couldn't tell one way or another, if the ballistics were any better/worse than round balls.  They're pricy little suckers too...about 2X the cost of round balls.

Go ahead and buy a box and see what you think...who knows, you might prefer them over round balls.   Dixie Gun Works and most BP shops carry them...be sure to get the .457 for your ROA. Regardless, you'll have fun trying them out!

Be safe!  ...Chris   :D
"An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike!" Spiro Agnew

Offline Gatofeo

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Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2003, 09:32:32 AM »
Yep, I've tried the Buffalo Bullets. Not impressed.
They're clumsier to load, especially in the 1851 Navy which has minimal clearance between the front of the cylinder and the end of the rammer.
Yep, you have to reduce powder to allow room for their length.
When I tried them, they came with a lubricated felt wad that the manufacturer suggested be placed twixt bullet and powder. Thus, even more precious room for powder was lost.
Being a heavier bullet, they strike higher on target than the round ball. The Colt designs usually shoot high as it is, and conical bullets shoot higher still. This situation is not conducive to consistent accuracy, if you have to use "Kentucky Windage" by holding above your target.
In my Uberti-made Remington .44 they're easier to load. I can get slightly less than 30 grains of Goex FFFG under it but it's hardly worth the bother.
Same may be said of the Lee conical bullet, which you must cast yourself (unless you're lucky enough to find some at a gun show).
In my Colt 2nd issue 1851 Navy, Pietta-made Remington Navy .36, Uberti-made Remington .44 Army, Pietta-made Colt 1860 .44 and Armi San Marcos Colt 1861 Pocket Pistol .36 the conicals have never been as accurate as a good, oversized ball.
In my Colt Navy, I've sometimes been able to put six balls into less than two inches at 25 yards from a benchrest. Conicals usually group about 4 or 5 inches.
My Remington .44 does about the same, twixt round balls vs. conicals.
Such comparatively dismal accuracy from the conicals hasn't kept me interested in them.
In my .36 calibers I shoot .380 diameter balls, available from Warren Muzzleloading (www.warrenmuzzleloading.com) or cast my own. In my 44s I shoot .457 balls from Speer, or .454 if I can't find .457 balls.
A well-lubricated felt wad, seated firmly on the powder before seating the ball, is all the lubricant required. No lubricant is needed over the ball if a felt wad soaked in Crisco, lard/beeswax mix, Crisco/beeswax mix, or my favorite mix of mutton tallow/paraffin/beeswax is required.
I punch my own wads from hard felt, available as window stripping and made by Frost King of New Jersey/Nevada.
I've played with conical bullets through the years but always go back to the plain, lead ball. It's cheaper, easier to load, more accurate (in my revolvers, at least) and easier to find or cast.
Frankly, unless you're making paper cartridges for your revolver or wish to hunt deer with the Ruger Old Army, I don't believe that conical bullets have any advantage over lead balls.
As for long range shooting, I live in the remote Utah desert. Any time I wish, I can go out and literally shoot for miles, with the mountains as my backstop.
I've shot lead balls from my Colt 1851 Navy and Remington 44 out to about 300 yards, at man-sized rocks and such. Yep, that ball has the trajectory of a thrown grapefruit but some amazing shots may be made once you get the range right.
When shooting my Navy at 300 yards, I have to hold the top of the hammer just a hair up from where the forcing cone ends and the flat top of he barrel begins. This is hardly conducive to repeated sight settings, since the brass bead is no longer useable.
Anyone who thinks they can shoot cap and ball revolvers at long range with the same measure of accuracy of a smokeless powder revolver is kidding themselves. But it's a fun stunt to engage in when paper and tin cans become boring targets.
the original and reproduction Colts shoot about dead-on at 75 to 100 yards. I could make life mighty interesting for a man in the open out to 200 yards, and make him nervous out to 300.
But if you wish to see if your loads will be accurate at short range, try them at long range. Long range shooting greatly magnifies any aberrations of the load.
If the load is all over the countryside at 200 yards, it almost certainly won't group well on paper at 25 yards. The late gun writer Elmer Keith used to preach this and I believe it as well.
But try conicals. Each gun is an individual. You may just have a revolver that does well with them; mine don't.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline John C

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Buffalo Revolver Conical Bullets
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2003, 06:29:35 PM »
Gatofeo;

Where in the Utah desert are you?  I'm in Utah county.  Not quite the desert, but pretty close.

-John C

"Oh my heck!"