Author Topic: Remember the Maine!  (Read 3052 times)

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Remember the Maine!
« on: September 26, 2010, 10:25:37 PM »
  The United States Armored Cruiser, Maine was launched in 1889 in the Pre-Dreadnaught era of steel ships from the Brooklyn Navy Yard.  She was well armed for those days with two, 2-gun turrets, 10" BL Rifles, one on the starboard side, forward and one on the port side, aft.  She also had six 6" X 30 BL Rifles, two bow casemate mounts, two stern casemate mounts and two amidships in casemate mounts.  Also  quite numerous were 6 Pdr. QF guns, 1 Pdr. QF guns and 1" Gatling Guns.  Her last voyage was to Havana Harbor in Cuba to protect U.S. interests.  She steamed into Havana Harbor on January 25, 1898.  

     On the 15th of February 1898 a large explosion sank the Maine and killed more than 250 of her sailors.  It is a mystery to this day what actually caused the explosion, but in those days of very poor Spanish/American relations, the commonly held view was a Spanish mine or Spanish sabotage of some sort.  After the Spanish American War was over, the United States wanted answers that divers could not provide.  In the days before WWI, a large coffer damn was built around the wreck and dis-assembly of the entire ship was accomplished.  No definite conclusions were drawn even after this extensive survey of the wreck.  One of the 6" Naval Guns went to the State of Maine and was placed in Ethan Allen Park on a broad grassy knoll overlooking Casco Bay within the Portland, Maine City limits.  Large portions of the hull were barged to the Florida Straights and sunk in 600 feet of water.

     Mike and I found this gun in the summer of 2007 on our trip of artillery exploration through Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine.  You can see how the elevation was handled by the rack just behind the trunnions.  Breech Block details are interesting too.  Enjoy the pics.

Mike and Tracy


The 6" X 30 Naval Rifle we found is one of the six which were on the ship like the one pictured here in the Port side bow casemate.  The main guns, 10" Naval Rifles are in the large turret, aft on the port side near where the life boat is hanging over the water on davits.




Two boys and a man in a row boat watch as the United States Armored Cruiser, Maine steams into Havana Harbor on or about January 25, 1898.




Mike spotted the big 6" naval gun tube and we walked over to take a closer look.




The elevation rack and trunnion ring.  Saltwater corrosion from about 12 years in Havana Harbor is evident here.




A bronze memorial plaque attached to the plinth upon which rests one of the Maine's 6" guns.




Mike studies the details of the breech block.  The pinion gear crank is missing.




The tube points out into Casco Bay.  In the background, just to the tube's left is an intriguing shape.




The Zoom view of that shape reveals Fort Gorges built on Hog Island Bank between 1857 and 1865 to protect Portland from attack by sea.  
Although it's a public Park today, access is only possible by private boat.  There is only one cannon still there.  There is a solitary 10" Parrott Rifle way up on the Barbette level.  Maybe we will sail up there one day and climb up to see it.






  
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 12:37:31 AM »
Pretty cool looking gun.  Do you have any pictures depicting what it's carriage/mount would look like?

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 04:20:50 AM »
     While we never have found a photo of the actual mount for the 6" X 30 gun featured in this thread, the 8" shield mount gun from a contemporary ship is featured here: http://www.twc-transcribing.com/USSMaine/Armament/8-inch%20Breech-loading%20Rifle.htm
The elevation and traverse mechanisms are very similar to our casemated 6" rifles. Note the front sight boss just like our 6" gun and the elevation gear rack on the tube.  Do you see how a gunner turning the left side wheel turns a worm gear set which rotates a pinion gear shaft and a pinion gear, which, in turn, forces the rack up or down to depress or elevate the tube?  The Maine's 6" guns were all in armored enclosures sometimes referred to as a turret, sometimes a casemate.  It's actually a combination of the two, but these guns should really be said to be mounted within a casemate.  

Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Spuddy

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 09:54:38 AM »
Ahh yes, the Maine. Thanks for the post.  Very interesting.  I really like the lines on this gun.  To me, it looks very similiar to the lines on modern battleship guns.

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 12:01:38 PM »
Thanks for the reference.  The worm gear makes sense - the mechanical advantage of a worm gear would definitely facilitate moving such a monster.  Is the crank on the side for rotating the gun?  Do you know how these are sighted?  I can't make out anything resembling sights on the barrel or a scope on the mount.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 01:43:19 PM »
The last report on the sinking of the Maine that I saw was that it was caused by spontaneous combustion of the low grade coal stored in bunkers surrounding the magazines causing the magazines to explode.  This cause was espoused by the Spanish investigators in 1898 and by Hyman Rickover in a 1976 investigation. 

There were general orders outstanding that the coal would not be piled against the walls in situations like this but the Maine's captain had been reprimanded before about not complying with this order.
GG
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--Winston Churchill

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 02:51:11 PM »
That would be one hell of a coincidence ...... way !

low grade hi suffur coal might put off some nastey dust ....?

some sailor probably tried to ..... smokem if he has gotem once the smoking lamp was lite .

siiiiii zzzz zzeeee  puff BOOOOOMMMMM ......just like that ! only quicker !  :o

some stupid accedent OR a mine , but i would think they could discover that in the hull damage ....... ;)

did the magizine go off off just the coal bunker ?

I got to see coal bunker on the USS TEXAS ! . an interesting side note  .

the Texas was designed and built B4 radar    way  . so the guns only elevated to about 13 degrees or something like that . So on D day they where tasked with a target just out of range , ..... ! curumba ~!

So they flooded the off side bunker to get three more degrees of angle ..... boom they hit the gun that was the target.

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 02:55:57 PM »
Apparently, the coal bunkers were located just inside the hull as additional protection, with the magazines inside of the bunkers.  There should be an erection diagram for the ship somewhere that would give this detail.

How were the bunkers in the Texas arranged?  That ship was built about the same time as the Maine although it may have been heavily modified since.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 08:26:13 PM »
    We are in agreement with Spuddy, the lines of the 6" naval rifle are clean and modern looking.  From our fairly limited research Mike and I believe that the sights were relatively rudimentary, Gulfcoastblackpowder.  In that 8" shield mount deck gun that I provided a link for, a contemporary of the Maine's 6" X 30's, you can clearly see a simple post front sight coming out of a flat sight boss which is part of the trunnion ring.  Although the rear sight is not mounted in this photo, if you looked at hundreds of these photos, you probably would find a simple "V"-Notch, graduated-stalk, rear sight just like the ones we have seen on shoulder stocked QF 3 and 6 pounder guns and on various Hotchkiss revolving cannons.

     On the subject of the cause of the explosion of two or more forward powder magazines, speculation will most likely go on forever.  However the very latest study was taken on by the National Geographic Magazine who hired an independant Marine Accident Investigation company to do a complete re-investigation using modern instruments and computer modeling in 1998.  Their report, issued in 1999 largely backs up two of the previous investigations, the 1898 Sampson Board and the 1910-11 Vreeman Board Court of Inquiry which concluded that a submarine mine caused the forward powder magazine explosion.  The 1998 National Geographic investigation by Advanced Marine Enterprises concluded that,  "while a spontaneous combustion in a coal bunker can create ignition-level temperatures in adjacent magazines, this is not likely to have occurred on the Maine, because the bottom plating identified as Section 1 would have blown outward, not inward," and "The sum of these findings is not definitive in proving that a mine was the cause of sinking of the Maine, but it does strengthen the case in favor of a mine as the cause."  It must be noted that several analysts at AME, do not agree with the conclusion.  At least they reached a conclusion which indicates that modern politics did not dominate this investigation.  Frankly we cannot see how a section of the keel was bent inward under the area where the forward magazines were located if the internal, coal bunker explosion source is to be believed.

     Here is a question for you guys interested in pre-dreadnaught and dreadnaught cruisers and battleships and naval cannon.  What was the purpose of the large, wooden, shoulder-stock on the rear of all those 2, 3 and 6 Pdr. QF (Quick Firing) guns?  Surely there must be a few anti-torpedo boat weapons students out there in GBO-land.

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline 5.7MAN

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 09:33:33 PM »
Nice Pictures and Info, In Lebanon NH in front of the GAR(Grand Army of the republic) Hall there are two Shells/Projectiles on either side of the sidewalk leading to the building, they are marked as having come from the Maine. if i recall they are 10". I am not sure why they ended up there.   

Remember the Maine!

Dan

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 01:42:20 AM »
Dan --

WELCOME to the board!  (and thanks for the info)

What do you shoot?

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 07:40:52 AM »
    Below is a link that will allow you to see one of the 10" Shells from the Maine and a large pile of cannon balls that were placed in front of the Soldiers Memorial Building on North Park Street in Lebanon, New Hampshire.  I believe the G.A.R. Hall and Post is within the same building. Thanks for letting us know about that, Dan.

Tracy


http://maps.google.com/maps?layer=c&cbll=43.642929,-72.250861&cbp=12,321.98,,0,3.92&cid=12013702269095057586&q=City+Hall&ved=0CHUQ2wU&ei=vhSiTLKzLYiaoASU6olp&ie=UTF8&hq=City+Hall&hnear=&ll=43.642923,-72.250986&spn=0.007143,0.01929&z=16&panoid=IDCgz-wg3gXiSGci5Q90Fg
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 08:18:03 AM »
Here is a great site with a wealth of info about the Maine. Lots of interesting info about Arlington Cemetery also. The two howitzers at the Maine Memorial are Spanish trophy guns and, as I remember, they have a bore of around 8 inches and are rifled. Nearby is a fine Spanish RML with interesting saw tooth type rifling. Quite a number of artillery pieces spread around Arlington - mostly barrels mounted on pedestals-Arlington Cemetery is a must see. If you go there, be prepared spend a whole day and to do a lot of walking.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/ussmaine.htm
Max

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 08:57:44 AM »
That is an excellent site Max; I have photos of the 'Maine Memorial' at Arlington, but I haven't seen this site with all the photos of the mangled wreck of the ship. Thanks!
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 12:09:07 PM »
     If any of you fellows who like small cannons are interested to see how the small cannons by Hotchkiss, Nordenfelt and Gardiner worked, then take a look at this fabulous site we found yesterday while researching anti torpedo boat QF guns.  A large wooden stock was also used by Hotchkiss on his revolving cannon.  The functioning parts are very well drawn and the animation is slow enough to really see how this old warhorse worked. 

An extraordinary site:   http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/antitorpedoboatguns/Hotchkiss/index.html


Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline gulfcoastblackpowder

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2010, 02:19:45 PM »
Thanks for those 2 sites Max and Seacoast!  I concur that animation of the Hotchkiss is excellent!

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2010, 06:54:06 PM »
The coal bunkers on the Texas are long running compartments on the outside 'blisters' of the ship . They where at and below the waterline .

You can just peek though the peep hole that was in all watertight compartments . I think they ate up a tremendous amount of beam space .

The whole of the shi internaly has a 'skinney' feel to it  . The machinery and all running gear along the centerline of the ship .

A hallway or deck ran along both the port and starboard side below decks . Staterooms on the outside towards the hull for the officers and wide spots for the crew ..... ? weird . crew space was almost an afterthought ....?

The Marines were quartered seperatly from all other crew in the bow . They had their rifles with them in racks in their quarters .

She was hit twice , once in june 25 44 in the wheelhouse . One man named Christian Chistianson who was the helmsmen (iirc) was killed . Then a big German shell endded up in an officers statroom ...... dud ...

Lots of rework was done for WWII ,all antiaircraft guns were new . That required internal bracing , which required some bending and cutting of existing ladder wells , just to clear the new structure .

Gary

 

 

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2010, 12:13:05 AM »
     While we never have found a photo of the actual mount for the 6" X 30 gun featured in this thread, the 8" shield mount gun from a contemporary ship is featured here: http://www.twc-transcribing.com/USSMaine/Armament/8-inch%20Breech-loading%20Rifle.htm
The elevation and traverse mechanisms are very similar to our casemated 6" rifles. Note the front sight boss just like our 6" gun and the elevation gear rack on the tube.  Do you see how a gunner turning the left side wheel turns a worm gear set which rotates a pinion gear shaft and a pinion gear, which, in turn, forces the rack up or down to depress or elevate the tube?  The Maine's 6" guns were all in armored enclosures sometimes referred to as a turret, sometimes a casemate.  It's actually a combination of the two, but these guns should really be said to be mounted within a casemate. 

Tracy

There are some choice pictorial works of 'The Maine' displayed on that site. http://www.twc-transcribing.com/USSMaine/The%20Battleship%20USS%20Maine/USSMaine_Color/USSMAINE_Color00.htm
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline jlchucker

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2010, 04:43:12 AM »
I could be mistaken, and if so, will some Norwich U alum please correct me?  On the campus of that U, there are several period pieces of artillery placed near entrances to buildings.  If I recall, there are a couple of these flanking a building, and are labelled as being from the USS Maine.  Or could they be off the USS Olympia, Admiral Dewey's flagship?  Dewey was a Norwich alum, I believe.  For those who have been to that school, it's one of America's oldest military schools, has a pretty campus, and their Div III football games are in a picturesque setting with an atmosphere reminiscent of what very early college football must have been like at little schools like this.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2010, 06:45:29 PM »
     Jlchucker,   This Norwich University alum can tell you that you have the correct war, just the wrong side when it comes to the naval artillery found on the east side of the new Wise Student Center just north of the old main gate and within feet of Vt. Route 12.  This built-up hoop gun, a naval gun, is featured in photos Mike and I took when we visited Norwich in June of 2007.  Please see those photos below.  We also saw a 47mm Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon, marked U.S. Navy 1898.  If you want to see that let me know.

Tracy


This is probably the gun you thought was from the Armored Cruiser Maine.  The plaque on the side of the display stand is fairly clear, but if you can't see it, it reads:  "Trophy of the VIZCAYA, Santiago, July 3, 1898".  




A photo from the new Norwich Museum of a surveying class in about 1920 set up near the Vizcaya Gun and Route 12, probably a dirt road at that time.  The old museum in the basement of White Chapel featured an 8" shell from Admiral Dewey's flagship, Olympia.




The built-up, hoop construction can be seen here of the Spanish Naval Gun.  




You can see the long tapering tube here, longer than the Maine's 6" rifles.




The breech features four equal sections of locking lugs and relief.  Similar to the Maine's guns, this configuration requires a slide that the breech block goes ut onto, then pivots to the right rear for loading on the hinges seen here.




This is Vizcaya Naval Rifle, rifling, similar to Armstrong rifling of that period.





Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline jlchucker

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2010, 03:05:20 AM »
Tracy, the gun I was referring to looks like the one in the photo with the guy leaning on it.  If it's a nice day, the next time I go to Norwich for a ball game I'll go early enough to check out some of the outdoor displays, as well as the museum.  It's an interesting place.  They even have a cadet gun crew fire off a WWII pack howitzer each time the home team scores a touchdown.  Although I live about 40 miles or so from there, I've never actually taken the time to tour the campus. Lots of history there though.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 03:34:21 PM »
jlchucker,
I haven't seen your name here before, so first of all welcome to this forum; I did a quick search after reading your post yesterday and came up with this: http://www.norwich.edu/cadets/artillery.html
I know this isn't what you're looking for, but if you happen to take a camera along when you take the planned tour upon you return to Norwich I sure would appreciate seeing the two bronze James (rifles) cannons, and the Armstrong/Whitworth "salute" cannon.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 04:59:25 PM »
jlchucker --

Welcome to the board!

40 miles?  Which way?  I have kin-folk in S. Woodbury.

What do you like to shoot?

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline jlchucker

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2010, 04:33:04 AM »
Cat Whisperer and Boom 3,

Thanks for the welcome. Actually though, I joined the Greybeard Outdoors website in 2008 and while I don't post about everything, I've posted now and then--never about artillery though. American history interests me, and I remembered some sort of USS Maine connection with a display that I saw one time while attending a football game at Norwich.  I attended UVM myself, back when they also had football.  When my alma mater became hippie-fied and dropped football, I dropped them.  For a time I became a member of Norwich Friends of Football.  I had to let go of that a couple of years ago when Castleton State took up the sport--my brothers are all Castleton Alums.  Those schools are sports rivals (CSC began hating NU in an Oklahoma-Texas, Harvard-Yale, etc fashion as soon as the two scheduled each other--and I needed to survive in my family.  All that having been said though, I usually take in a couple of NU games each year--it's only about 45 or so miles from home.  I'll try and get some photos of those pieces that you mention, Boom3, if I can find them.  CSC plays NU at NU this year--that's already being planned.  I hope I can find those guns through the crowd!  I'll also try and get a pic of their pack howitzer and crew firing after a touchdown.  Then I'll set about figuring how to get those snapshots to you guys.

John

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2010, 08:30:09 PM »
   Jlchucker and Boom J.,   I hope I'm not stealing someone's thunder here, but I thought I would post a few pictures of some Norwich cannon after I finally found them.  John, you will have the Lion's share of the credit for N.U. cannon if you can find out where they keep the two James rifles and get a few pics of them and the Gatling gun too.  Be sure to check the main entrance to Jackman Hall also.  During my years as a cadet, 1965 to 1969, the university had an 1841 6Pdr. in the foyer just beyond the main entrance door.  They also had, during those years, one or two 1857 Napoleon Gun-Howitzers, probably loaned to the university.  They had, very briefly, a 20mm Lahti anti-tank gun with 3 rounds of live ammo.  The owner's son (a Cadet) and I went out with that gun, south of the Dog River, to an old race track that had a 1940s gasoline tanker in the infield.  We nailed it from back to front at about 100 yards with armor piercing rounds.  They all went clean through until they were stopped by the engine block.  Those skids on that cannon don't stop much recoil when they sit on snow!!  Ouch.

    Be sure to ask if they still have the two-barrel Gardiner Gun that was pulled out of the basement of Dewey Hall when they were excavating for the university's first computer training center in 1967 or '68.  The Gatling Gun was unearthed at about the same time as I recall.  I only saw the Gardiner Gun, not the Gatling.  Also outside of Dewey hall, on the south-west corner, is the 47mm Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon.  The only other cannons that I am aware of were the two 24 Pdr. Coehorn Mortars on top of opposite, masonry, Gate Posts at the East Entrance.  In 2007, they were in crates in the Museum's "back room", or so Mike and I were told.  I think the new landscaping did away with the main Gate off Route 12, so they could be on display anywhere or maybe in the museum.  The only other cannons on the campus are the 75mm howitzer or 76mm High Velocity Gun on the Sherman Tank at the east end of the football field.  Also they have a few Abram's tanks (Functional) on campus as part of a Vermont National Guard facility with their Hyper-velocity, 120mm, Rhinemetal, smooth bore guns (approx. 5,700 f.p.s. vel.).  

Tracy


There are 3 of these Armstrong-Whitworth rifles on N.U.'s campus.  Two, like the one shown, were emplaced in front of Goodyear Hall where I practiced close-order drill on the upper parade ground, in front of them, as a freshman, in 1965.  In the spring of 1966, some wise guy muzzle loaded an M-80 and a full can of Coke down the gun that had it's breech block welded shut.  That gun covered Patterson Hall and some guy leaning out of a second story window was yelling at the gunner.  It was close; the yelling guy was almost hit as the Soda can impacted the bricks 6" from the open window!  Finals Week was always crazy, but it was great having a ring-side seat in my room which faced the upper parade at ground level, right behind the "active", 1899, rapid-fire gun.  Those two were moved to Plumley Armory sometime after I graduated.




Mike studies the third of these cannons which is still on the upper parade in front of Jackman Hall, the administration building.  It is the so-called 'saluting gun'.  The breech block (with a 10 Ga. BP Blank adapter) was stored in the arms-room in Jackman Hall in the 60s and taken out only at the end of each day for an evening salute.




I think R.F. means rapid fire, but maybe someone knows for sure.  Interesting that it's not Q.F. for quick fire which was quite common back then.




Interesting carriage.




I like this view.  Do you see the elevation gear?  Bronze handled crank to a worm gear set to a pinion gear shaft to a pinion gear to a curved rack pinned to the breech bottom.




Curiously, this piece is positioned so it's 'Plane of Fire' just about bisects my freshman room just to the left of Goodyear Hall's front door.  As I sighted down that long, slender, tapered tube in 2007, I wondered if a full can of Coke in front of a 10 Ga. blank would make it to my old room at the far end of the parade.  Do you see those majestic maples behind the old Infantryman?  Those trees were mere saplings when I started at Norwich in 1965.




Mike inspects the 47mm Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon at the south west corner of Dewey Hall.  Admiral Dewey was a Norwich cadet for two years who transferred to the U.S Naval Academy and went on to fame in the U.S. Navy.  On 1 May 1898 his U.S. fleet defeated the Spanish fleet at Manila Bay in the Philippine Islands at the beginning of the Spanish-American War.




The business end of this cannon 47mm, (1.85" Cal.) which was mounted on many U.S. warships of that era.




Most of the markings are in this area.  They read:  U.S.N, 47mm Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon,  No. 22, N.S, Wt. 1385 LBS., 1898













Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline jlchucker

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2010, 06:18:59 AM »
Great photos!  They take some of the pressure off me to find these guns.  I don't really know that campus all that well.  The last time I was over there, though, you could still enter from RT 12, and go past what was the old gym to the gates of the football field.  The Sherman tank was on the left.  I think they've done some remodelling of that football field.  I know that up in what used to be one of the big parking lots is a new building-I think for computer science but I could be wrong.  Cadets there wandering the campus are all very polite.  I'm sure if I ask someone about some of this stuff I'll be able to get one or more of them to point out the whereabouts of the guns you are inquiring about.  How did you get to fire artillery over at the site of the old Dog River Speedway?  Does NU own that property now? 

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2010, 06:19:30 PM »
Tracy ,I like the 'stars in eyes' stare you having going on in that pic.

Do you have any period photos of you with same cannon ?

That is a cool looking cannon !

Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2010, 10:28:41 PM »
Okay John, we've now got pics of the Armstrong Whitworth 12-pdr (not that more wouldn't be welcome), so all we're looking for is the two James rifles. ;)
This site relates the restoration of one of the three British 12-pounders that is still used as a Norwich salute gun (converted to fire blank shotgun shells); it states that "the other two sit at Plumley Armory. "http://www.norwich.edu/alumni/gallery/cannon.html

I couldn't find anything that gave the location of the two James rifles. This may sound confusing, but it's really not that bad; there are more than a couple different looking types of cannon that are called James rifles, but I'd bet that the two cannon at Norwich will either look like the gun on the left or the one in the middle in this photo. http://markerhunter.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/shiloh-vc-026.jpg
It has already been said that in the 60's there was an M1841 6-pdr located by "the main entrance to Jackman Hall..... in the foyer just beyond the main entrance door." If that cannon is still at that location, and the bore is rifled, then it's one of the James rifles (it'll look like the barrel on the left, in the photo I posted).
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline jlchucker

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2010, 04:44:17 AM »
Boom J, I'll check it out when I go to the Castleton game.  I'll go early--partly to be able to find a parking place closer than Montpelier, and because I'll need some time to go around and see if I can find some of these guns.  I've long thought about going through the museum there as well.  There's going to be a crowd there this year.  First time at Norwich for Castleton, and they're gathering busses for the trip already.  I'll have a camera with me and will try to get some pics.  NU will score for sure--so maybe if they still let you wander the sidelines there, I can go over to the corner behind the end zone and get a shot of that pack howitzer firing.  If I'm lucky.  I've printed off your posting and the pic you attached--now I've got to find Jackman Hall and see if it's there.  You and Seacoast seem to be alums.  Do you ever trek back there for games? 

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Remember the Maine!
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2010, 10:18:32 AM »
I've never been there, John; I had heard of the university and knew it was in Vermont, but that was the extent of my knowledge.
I did check the "National Registry of Known Surviving Civil War Artillery", but Norwich's James rifles are evidently listed as privately owned, so that was no help in identifying them (someone with an older registry could find out what type they are).
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.